Imperial Decree - DBDC

[Canik]

I almost feel a little bad for AFM. You must have great relationships with Polar in other diminsions because in this one I'm just not seeing it. If after this war any of you want out, we will open a shelter for abused Polar allies.

[Sarkin]

How are you going to criticize Polar for a plan that makes sense? I'm sorry the no-CB attack on Invicta hasn't yet yielded the results you're looking for - but to argue against this plan is a bit foolish. The plan to target us from the start was obvious. If we are the target, why not come get us? We got so much attention here - yet none of the battlefield as each alliance jockeys for "soft" targets.

 

Two points:

 

First, this war didn't start with a singular target. It's most accurate to say that the diverse set of alliances involved in this coalition would give very different answers on whom they consider to be their primary target. I'm sure that Polar is the target for some (rolling one of the Orders always is for some people), but for others, it may have been an Aftermath alliance. Kashmir's declaration indicated that they were dying to roll SUN in particular, for example. Global war coalitions are always fueled by a broad range of motivations.

 

Second, given the previous point, your plan doesn't actually make all that much sense. Grub has acknowledged (1) that your side of the web is going to lose this particular war. Dajobo has stated (2) that you don't actually mind losing a war here or there and (3) that you will indeed enter the war. 

 

You've run the numbers, you know that this won't actually be all that one-sided when all is said and done, at least as far as global wars tend to go. Factor in that the enemy coalition has a huge amount of strength located in the upper-tier, much of which is out of reach of your nations, and the gap shrinks further. There's still a gap, of course, but it's hardly large enough to be a massacre like some wars. The only reason its possible for this coalition to dogpile on to AFM to anywhere near this extent is because XX has not deigned to help them. This can/will become a pretty decent fight once XX joins the fray, but up until that point it's going to remain a slaughter.

 

Polar has repeatedly congratulated itself on its savvy for "frustrating" our coalition. Is it mildly annoying that XX hasn't defended its allies in AFM? I guess, yeah. Once you've militarized, it's tedious to wait around. I'll grant that. Nevertheless, is mild annoying the enemy coalition by (1) hitting a couple of tech sellers and (2) pushing back their timeline really worth the trade-off of giving them the time and unimpeded freedom to slaughter your allies? That's a terrible trade-off. 

 

So your plan is clearly to annoy us into attacking Polar in particular. This is why you're working so hard to present yourselves as the centerpiece of the war, rather than AFM, XX, or your sphere as a whole. If you're successful at goading a direct attack onto Polar, you can (hopefully) swing Valhalla and RIA to your side. That's all well and good, but the point stands that those two alliances still wouldn't be enough to flip the numbers on this war.

 

In other words, your plan is to run a propaganda campaign to invite a direct attack on NpO in order to add maybe two more alliances to your coalition, in exchange for giving the enemy coalition seemingly unlimited time to annihilate half of your sphere, including four direct allies. Even if this "NpO is the REAL target of your coalition!" thing wasn't propaganda and was indeed reality, don't you think the people who want to get after NpO will be happy to destroy your support base entirely unimpeded?

 

In short: you should come up with a better plan.

 

 

Prodigal Moon, on 22 Nov 2014 - 8:33 PM, said:

 

Hey man thanks for looking out for us and breaking it all down but I think we're just gonna end up sitting this one out. I hope AFM can forgive us later.

 

I'm sure that SNX, which has already lost 29.8% of its war mode NS in just ten days (largely before NG/NSO/INT got involved), is equally flippant. Or UPN, which has lost 28.3% of its war mode NS in about a week. If they are indeed this willing to get massacred to keep XX pristine, kudos to them for their unflinching loyalty and to you for your gleeful willingness to let them take the blows.

[Lemac]

NPO are hypocrites

 

they speak of peace, but in reality they want war

 

However they think that by attacking Polars allies, they will provoke a war

 

 

How retarded

 

They would rather do this than an honourable CB

 

Sure, attack SNX...but what does that achieve?? NPO weakens itself, lol

[brucemania]

NPO are hypocrites

 

they speak of peace, but in reality they want war

 

However they think that by attacking Polars allies, they will provoke a war

 

 

How retarded

 

They would rather do this than an honourable CB

 

Sure, attack SNX...but what does that achieve?? NPO weakens itself, lol

 

 

This is old news ... got anything new ?

[Boston]

NPO are hypocrites

 

they speak of peace, but in reality they want war

 

However they think that by attacking Polars allies, they will provoke a war

 

 

How retarded

 

They would rather do this than an honourable CB

 

Sure, attack SNX...but what does that achieve?? NPO weakens itself, lol

 

But its SNX, its like in college hoops when you have a team from the Big 12 playing a team from the Sunbelt conference.  Gotta warm up before an actual game, get the confidence up and what not.  

 

NPO may be alot of things, but retarded? cmon mangggg

[Prodigal Moon]

If they are indeed this willing to get massacred to keep XX pristine, kudos to them for their unflinching loyalty and to you for your gleeful willingness to let them take the blows.

Thank you.

[Soul Rebel]

If the war continue like this, I won't be surprise if next time what's left of SNX leads a coalition to destroy NpO.

[Prodigal Moon]

If the war continue like this, I won't be surprise if next time what's left of SNX leads a coalition to destroy NpO.

So I guess we should jump in and get destroyed this war so that we can avoid getting destroyed next war. Yeah that makes sense...NOT! :D

[Monster]

So I guess we should jump in and get destroyed this war so that we can avoid getting destroyed next war. Yeah that makes sense...NOT! :D

 

If a war is seemingly unavoidable, you typically don't want to limit the number of people on your side by letting them burn beforehand in order to stall it for a little longer.

[Mihail the Just]

Wow - so much energy directed at trying to get NpO into this war - all this carefully framed as advice for our own good. You know, if I were a little less trusting, I'd begin to wonder if NpO enemies want to trick Polar in for their own benefit!! That would be one way of making sense of all this concern-trolling and "friendly advice" being bandied about!!

 

If NpO's strategy was really really bad for NpO, I'd expect others to stfu and let NpO wallow away in it. As it currently stands, you all doth protest way too much

[Sephiroth]

So I guess we should jump in and get destroyed this war so that we can avoid getting destroyed next war. Yeah that makes sense...NOT! :D

If you guys are content sitting around doing nothing as your allies burn when the odds don't look to be in your favor, I'm not sure what motivation your allies would have to come in for you guys if you end up like SNX next war. I'm not sure the signal you want to give off is all your MDoAPs should be treated like ODoAPs.

[Dochartaigh]

No, but I do expect Aftermath to burn!

 

Well that is already happening... :P

[Llanowar Elf]

It's funny to me that many here actually think Polar has a decision in Aftermath's affairs. We will go to hell and back for our allies in Polar. For any of them. However that does not mean we allow them to dictate our war responses. We burn for each other, pure and simple. We won't be used as links in a chain to get to your end goals. If that means we fight a losing war, so be it. If that means we get are rears kicked? I'm ok with that, It's on our terms. Not yours.

[Rhizoctonia]

 Edited...fucking people and using polar pip

Edited November 23, 2014 by Rhizoctonia

[Robert2424]

@Rhizo, don't think thats what he meant???

[Llanowar Elf]

 

Thanks for the clarification.  You will only come to the defense of your allies if you feel like it, and not because of said treaty. Treaties wont dictate your war responses.  Got it, thanks

 

 

That's not what I meant at all. We uphold our treaties. CCC has never turned down a request to help an ally. I simply stated that our responses will not be dictated to us. We will not allow ourselves to be used as a staging area to get to our allies. No matter what side of the web that ally might lay on, we hold true to them.

[hartfw]

Wow - so much energy directed at trying to get NpO into this war - all this carefully framed as advice for our own good. You know, if I were a little less trusting, I'd begin to wonder if NpO enemies want to trick Polar in for their own benefit!! That would be one way of making sense of all this concern-trolling and "friendly advice" being bandied about!!

 

If NpO's strategy was really really bad for NpO, I'd expect others to stfu and let NpO wallow away in it. As it currently stands, you all doth protest way too much

 

Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

 

[Rhizoctonia]

 

 

That's not what I meant at all. We uphold our treaties. CCC has never turned down a request to help an ally. I simply stated that our responses will not be dictated to us. We will not allow ourselves to be used as a staging area to get to our allies. No matter what side of the web that ally might lay on, we hold true to them.

 

 

My response was not towards CCC. Everyone and using Polar's pip.  

[Canik]

Wow - so much energy directed at trying to get NpO into this war - all this carefully framed as advice for our own good. You know, if I were a little less trusting, I'd begin to wonder if NpO enemies want to trick Polar in for their own benefit!! That would be one way of making sense of all this concern-trolling and "friendly advice" being bandied about!!

 

If NpO's strategy was really really bad for NpO, I'd expect others to stfu and let NpO wallow away in it. As it currently stands, you all doth protest way too much

Well it's not like your upper tier is being saved as you're already at war with DBDC. Really, we probably should shut up. In lower tiers the war is much closer. It does benefit us to have NpO sit out. We are being short-sighted, we just love war & honor and are, perhaps, being cocky with our superiority at the moment.

Good thing you didn't fall for our trap. xD
 

It's funny to me that many here actually think Polar has a decision in Aftermath's affairs. We will go to hell and back for our allies in Polar. For any of them. However that does not mean we allow them to dictate our war responses. We burn for each other, pure and simple. We won't be used as links in a chain to get to your end goals. If that means we fight a losing war, so be it. If that means we get are rears kicked? I'm ok with that, It's on our terms. Not yours.

Fair enough, but Polar does decide what Polar do, and right now they are deciding to let you burn.. and for what reason? Because like I just said, their top tiers are already under attack. It's not like staying out is going to help them catch up with & take down DBDC.

[Llanowar Elf]

Well it's not like your upper tier is being saved as you're already at war with DBDC. Really, we probably should shut up. In lower tiers the war is much closer. It does benefit us to have NpO sit out. We are being short-sighted, we just love war & honor and are, perhaps, being cocky with our superiority at the moment.

Good thing you didn't fall for our trap. xD
 

Fair enough, but Polar does decide what Polar do, and right now they are deciding to let you burn.. and for what reason? Because like I just said, their top tiers are already under attack. It's not like staying out is going to help them catch up with & take down DBDC.

It's not there decision, if we don't activate our treaties. It's our decision how we handle this. We don't do this out of insane loyalty to Polaris, to be frank they've wanted to come in. We do this for each other. We will not be used, by inside or outside forces. 

[Nathan Halcyon]

We will not be used, by inside or outside forces. 

:psyduck:

 

I just felt a great disturbance in the force..

[FreddieMercury]

Fair enough, but Polar does decide what Polar do, and right now they are deciding to let you burn.. and for what reason? Because like I just said, their top tiers are already under attack. It's not like staying out is going to help them catch up with & take down DBDC.

 

I see this laughable line being bantered around: "Why are you letting your allies burn Polar har har we got you in a moral conundrum now see?" 

 

Yes, you trot that around after your coalition attacks with no CB to play some dumb treaty-web chess. Why do you bother? Do you think we'll go begging in the backchannels over some burnt pixels that we've replaced before and will be happy to replace again? 

 

Shit posting like that is a prime example of why OWF is and will always be terrible. 

[Canik]

It's not there decision, if we don't activate our treaties. It's our decision how we handle this. We don't do this out of insane loyalty to Polaris, to be frank they've wanted to come in. We do this for each other. We will not be used, by inside or outside forces.

So NpO wanted to come but you are holding them back, and you thought of this all on your own did you? Seems like a stretch, but assuming it's true, okay. Suit yourself. We'll just conquer you one by one and take less damage.
 

 

I see this laughable line being bantered around: "Why are you letting your allies burn Polar har har we got you in a moral conundrum now see?" 

 

Yes, you trot that around after your coalition attacks with no CB to play some dumb treaty-web chess. Why do you bother? Do you think we'll go begging in the backchannels over some burnt pixels that we've replaced before and will be happy to replace again? 

 

!@#$ posting like that is a prime example of why OWF is and will always be terrible. 

No, it's a serious question. Why are they letting you burn? I just don't see the point.

[Soul Rebel]

And how useful you will be when they are done with you and ready to kick the next bloc.  Polar and friends are making this to easy for their enemies.

[Deakin]

If you guys are content sitting around doing nothing as your allies burn when the odds don't look to be in your favor, I'm not sure what motivation your allies would have to come in for you guys if you end up like SNX next war. I'm not sure the signal you want to give off is all your MDoAPs should be treated like ODoAPs.

 

No, we simply take MD to mean "when requested", and we have enough respect for our allies to let them make their own decisions, with our aid coming only if and when they decide.

 

We treat our allies as equals, and do not maintain nor advocate the puppet/puppeteer relationships that some other Orders do.