A Message from the Emperor of the New Pacific Order

[trimm]

I suppose you're entitled to that opinion. You know people can think differently from you.. and not be wrong. Fascinating concept isn't it?

As I have stated several times before, you are more than welcome to not play by the same rules the rest of us do. But, that does not mean the rest of us are going to decide to play the sport differently because of it.

[Neo Uruk]

2009-2014. Karma to the Equilibrium War.
 
Edit: Or, more specifically, the time between NPO's defeat and loss of global hegemony, up until the time that they were closest to gaining it back again.

EQ was 2013. 4 years :P and I'd actually say the time between Dave and EQ was the time they were "closest" because of the mess EQ very quickly became through mismanagement and other factors.

but fair enough.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

@Trimm: It's not playing by "different rules". It is a different perspective on the rules. You have your victory. You'll just have to be satisfied knowing some of us do not believe it was well earned or obtained by a worthy opponent. Congrats, your mob tactics worked. How much of your 'victory' were you actually personally responsible for?

Some of us fight well, yet still in the presence of wave after wave of adversary we won. Yet we're the ones expected to also carry the burden of our "loss" to extraordinary numbers. It's a pathetic gambit on the part of a group that knows once they lose a unifying thread they'll be exposed to potential future retribution.. you need to hold us down, because you FEAR us.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex

[trimm]

It's not playing by "different rules". It is a different perspective on the rules. You have your victory. You'll just have to be satisfied knowing some of us do not believe it was well earned or obtained by a worthy opponent. Congrats, your mob tactics worked. How much of your 'victory' were you actually personally responsible for?

What exactly does that have to do with anything? Whatever you think of the people that beat you, the reality that you were beaten is indisputable. And while you can think anything you want, thoughts alone will not alter that reality.

Secondly, mob tactics? War on Bob generally works in exactly one manner, namely that the numerically superior side wins. Would your sense of honor actually be less offended if you had been thumped this bad by a numerically inferior force? Would that really help you sleep better at night?

EDITED TO ADD: Fear you? Baloney. Your enemies want to neutralize you because you represent the center of an opposite power sphere, and because in EQ you showed that you were not going to work with those alliances towards a common political goal. It has very little to do with fear, and a whole bunch more to do with pragmatism paired with some score settling. Edited January 31, 2014 by trimm

[Dochartaigh]

 

Lol forgive me if i see this wrong but it sounds to me like your saying take it or leave it? ..

 

K i get the points of Farrin did this your guys did that. Would it not of been a benfit to maybe say when the 1.1 was given to you and your side counters with 1.2 to maybe sweeten for that differnce a little give by offering some type of thing such as as well we will give on the outgoing aid to nations below a said NS but they will still have a total strict tech restriction for the period agreed upon.  I mean it seems we have conceded more than half on the length of the term (2.0 to 1.1) already which is meeting close to half way there and that maybe in return offer a half way on another issue. Yes you can play with the time and so forth just giving some kind of scenario.  What that not be more a negotiation since it seems that your side is more concerned about the tech issue than anything else ?

 

Yeah, our side went from forced PM to no forced PM, just a simulation. That is basically redefining the entire structure of our terms. Farrin only negotiated from 2.0 to 1.1. Which can also be seen as a give from our side for having cut the new redefined terms in half. So, yes, Farrin gave a little, our side gave the most. 

 

 

Are you under the impression that cursing and raging makes your point stronger somehow?

 

::shrugs:: You can disagree with me, but I actually think most alliances deserve white peace.  That this should be the default.  The default in CN is you come in to honor a treaty.  You fight hard and honorably.  And whoever wins offers the other white peace.  You shake hands and part ways with mutual respect.

 

Call me an idealist, but thats the ideal for me, and how ive always conducted my affairs.

 

You ask for terms and reps when an alliance involved *does* something.  When they are doing something above and beyond the standard war practices and thus you are punishing them.

 

Considering no one on your side has been able to give an official articulation as to what NPO should be punished for, that doesnt appear to be the case here.

 

So, yes, personally I would have expected Polar Top et all to have made the honorable move and offer a person who entered via an mdp white peace.  The fact that they feel the need to start spinning stories (NPO planned to roll polar.. despite no proof or evidence of that fact.  NPO extorted terms from umbrella and top last war.. a patent lie) these things demonstrate that they know they dont have a real leg to stand for and are trying to justify actions that, if they told the truth about (we just dislike you and want to hurt you) would embaress them.

 

 

Nothing *requires* you to adhere to the above standard.  Ultimately you get what you are strong enough to take I suppose.  No one can stop Polaris from demanding terms for no reason.  No one can stop NPO from refusing them.  And then you see who carries there way.  But it doesnt change the fact that I at least come away from the procedure with less respect for those who try to exort.  And CN has the odd history of eventually punishing those who try to extort and abuse their positions.

 

Your last paragraph is very fitting considering NPO's past. And shoot, I was in TIO and knew that NPO was pushing for terms against Umbrella mate. 

 

Yeah, right.

NPO doesn’t have an obligation to take a certain amount of damage to anyone except the allies it came in to defend, and the allies that came in to defend it. And I don’t hear them complaining . There’s no obligation to the other side to take any damage at all. We could have just sat out. There’s no claim on the other side for an amount of damage NPO owes it.

You can demand claims because you’re in a position to demand claims. But there’s no rationalization for how beaten down NPO needs to be before the war can end that doesn’t have at its foundation a desire on the oA side to see NPO beaten down. There’s no “how beaten down NPO has to be” that proceeds from the premise of what this war is supposed to be about.

But I don’t know why the oA side doesn’t just cop to it. You’re hacked off about Eq, don’t like NPO generally, and NPO has to pay. Then forcing terms on NPO at least makes sense, and the horror of forcing terms on an alliance that came in on an MD goes away.

 

Why would we cop out? Just because y'all under the impression we will collapse in a matter of days/weeks/hours whatever, does not make it true. NSO is getting the crap beaten out of it. They could already be rebuilding if not for NPO. 

 

To be honest, I personally just see it for what it is: a sign that your coalition is not yet defeated to the point where it is ready to seriously discuss peace. Instead, we are witness to the use of cheap theatrics and drama stunts at the negotiating table.

 

I simply wish my own coalition would adjust and stop entertaining this notion that we should discuss peace terms with petulant children.

 

I fully agree. I say we go back to the original terms but multiply it by two and force it on their entire side. 

 

Farrin has been seriously discussing peace and completely in good faith and his last offer was more than reasonable.  TOP are the ones who are ungrateful victors.  Keeping everyone at war so you could get 9 more days of blood-reps from NPO.  When is enough enough, TOP?  I get the feeling that Farrin could've countered with a offer higher than your offer and you'd have still turned it down and requested even more, lol.  I don't think you are negotiating in good faith and prefer just to keep the war going as long as you can.

 

I want to keep this war going mate. I know a good amount of people on our side do as well. Also, this is not just TOP mate. By no means is it just TOP. 

 

When everyone else is completely fine with white peace....accept you.  Yes, you will get most of the blame for holding the war up.

 

I am not fine with white peace. I want terms for every single alliance on your side by this point. At one point, I would have been fine with grey peace for all but NPO/NG/NSO but the amount of whining and crying from your side has just about annoyed me enough that I every alliance on your side to suffer for longer than just the war. 

 

Either TOP/NpO are going to get rolled hard in the future for doing this or they are going to white peace out. That's reality. Suck on it for a bitter minute.

 

Either NPO takes the terms or we crush them so bad that they won't have much of a future. As for what your side can do in the future... We have seen the political might of NSO/NG when they could not even muster a coalition against Polaris while Polaris was ripe for rolling if it just sneezed in the wrong manner. Sorry, but your side is not exactly scary. 

[BrJLa]

You don't seriously believe this do you?  Politics/War/This world does not/do not work that way.

 

Well, obviously we wouldn't sit it out.  Obviously, the whole war planning on the oA side anticipated we wouldn't sit it out.  But we didn't join the war because we owed the oA coalition a certain level of engagement, or a certain level of damage.  There is no "your debt to the oA Coalition hasn't been paid", unless you accept that the purpose of the war was to accomplish something other than what the CB was ostensibly about.

 

I guess I just don't know what the horse shit is about.  The war planning anticipated NPO would have to join on the NSO/NG side, and the oA coalition-building was built on the premise that you would draw NPO in, then make NPO pay.  You've been going on since early December that the war couldn't end until NPO was isolated.  If y'all are pissed about Eq, say it's about Eq, so that when this war is over we can all agree the debt has been settled.

[Bob Ilyani]

EQ was 2013. 4 years :P and I'd actually say the time between Dave and EQ was the time they were "closest" because of the mess EQ very quickly became through mismanagement and other factors.

but fair enough.

Shit. Right. 4 years... somethings I forget things when I'm tired.

[bakamitai]

Having read this entire thread at one sitting, I'm going to reply to the only posts worth a damn.

 

Topic spoiler alert: NPO's side throws their support behind this, Polar/TOP coalition rolls their eyes, Tywinn and Neo Uruk get in a pissing contest, and everyone avoids the thread following that.

 

Almost, except the pissing contest never lived up to its full potential (and therefore the thread still has life in it).  Note: this is not an invitation to Tywin and Neo Uruk to engage in said contest.

 

VektorZero and Iamthey are settling old debts with Red and Gandy Poodle. 

 

This is all you need to know about TOP's motivations here.  Well, that and their ruthless desire to be a Hegemony even more dominant than NPO's at its heyday.  But who could fault them, any alliance that gets powerful enough dreams of godhood.  We certainly did. :)

[Caliph]

I've been playing Cybernations for more than seven years, and I believe this is the first time I've seen the leader of a major alliance take to the OWF to openly grouse about in-process peace terms discussions. \m/ did it, as did, I believe, the original GOONS, but this was because they were given terms that were well in excess of objectively ludicrous.

 

Ah, well. Bad news, members of Pacifica: you're in the hands of a fool Emperor, one who seems to believe that the universe legitimately owes him better than he's getting.

 

 

\m/ did not.  Agree that very few alliances have done this sort of open whining.  It is rather unbecoming of an alliance leader.

 

[trimm]

\m/ did not.  Agree that very few alliances have done this sort of open whining.  It is rather unbecoming of an alliance leader.

I am one who generally hates "Private Channels for the win!" with a passion, but I can think of few things that would harden the stance of my opponents towards negotiating more than what Farrin has done here. Especially given the echo chamber that is the OWF, whose minds could he reasonably expect to change here? Certainly not any of the people whose opinions he would actually need to change given the circumstances.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

The NPO have been dealing more damge than taking since all members of the US entered and the NpO coalition does nothing to reverse that. I'lld have put more alliances on them to pressure them more to accept the terms and set off the surrender chain in the NSO coalition. But I know not everyone can have the mind of a military genius but just remember, one day you to can be the best!

[Rayvon]

The NPO have been dealing more damge than taking since all members of the US entered and the NpO coalition does nothing to reverse that. I'lld have put more alliances on them to pressure them more to accept the terms and set off the surrender chain in the NSO coalition. But I know not everyone can have the mind of a military genius but just remember, one day you to can be the best!

Will you do us all a favour and convince Tywin to create an alliance with you? A pair of quality minds, you should do well.

[Neo Uruk]

The NPO have been dealing more damge than taking since all members of the US entered and the NpO coalition does nothing to reverse that. I'lld have put more alliances on them to pressure them more to accept the terms and set off the surrender chain in the NSO coalition. But I know not everyone can have the mind of a military genius but just remember, one day you to can be the best!

I think everyone on our side wishes you were listened to.

More weight, guys, I can do at least five sets of twelve with this!

[Letum]

2009-2014. Karma to the Equilibrium War.
 
Edit: Or, more specifically, the time between NPO's defeat and loss of global hegemony, up until the time that they were closest to gaining it back again.

I am not sure how Equilibrium can be portrayed as "revenge" for Karma, considering most of the alliances we'd fought in Karma were on the Eq side...VE would be the exception I guess, but they weren't really anything more than a peripheral alliance in EQ.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

Will you do us all a favour and convince Tywin to create an alliance with you? A pair of quality minds, you should do well.

I doubt that'll happen, I heard he created your alliance and look at the state of that. I say "If you want to get it done right, do it yourself."

[The Zigur]

I doubt that'll happen, I heard he created your alliance and look at the state of that. I say "If you want to get it done right, do it yourself."

Im going to note that NSO abandoned its founding principles and purged its inner party. [Ooc]Similar to how Stalin purged so many Leninists who opposed Stalins raw hunger for power.[/ooc[/ooc]

[Joe Kremlin]

 

This is all you need to know about TOP's motivations here.  Well, that and their ruthless desire to be a Hegemony even more dominant than NPO's at its heyday.  But who could fault them, any alliance that gets powerful enough dreams of godhood.  We certainly did. :)

 

Yes, because if this war has shown anything, it's that TOP is willing to force disbandment and viceroys on other alliances. Actually, that's not even close to as evil as asking 30 nations to not send aid for a little while. Why didn't you listen CN? You could have stopped the evil TOP menace that is responsible for everything wrong with the world today.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

Im going to note that NSO abandoned its founding principles and purged its inner party. [Ooc]Similar to how Stalin purged so many Leninists who opposed Stalins raw hunger for power.[/ooc[/ooc]

NSO, you have no power here.

 

Yes, because if this war has shown anything, it's that TOP is willing to force disbandment and viceroys on other alliances. Actually, that's not even close to as evil as asking 30 nations to not send aid for a little while. Why didn't you listen CN? You could have stopped the evil TOP menace that is responsible for everything wrong with the world today.

I like seeing some of the old cultures of CN return. Maybe its former glory will return with it. Who knows but I demand stronger reps to find out.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Daenerys Targaryen

[Maelstrom Vortex]

What exactly does that have to do with anything? Whatever you think of the people that beat you, the reality that you were beaten is indisputable. And while you can think anything you want, thoughts alone will not alter that reality.

Secondly, mob tactics? War on Bob generally works in exactly one manner, namely that the numerically superior side wins. Would your sense of honor actually be less offended if you had been thumped this bad by a numerically inferior force? Would that really help you sleep better at night?

EDITED TO ADD: Fear you? Baloney. Your enemies want to neutralize you because you represent the center of an opposite power sphere, and because in EQ you showed that you were not going to work with those alliances towards a common political goal. It has very little to do with fear, and a whole bunch more to do with pragmatism paired with some score settling.

Yes, you fear us. That's why you need us out of the way. Your coalition has someone already in mind for your next tiff, but you need us busy and out of the way for it. I don't know how the target is, but it's the only logical reason for you to need us locked down. It could even be someone among your own side. But there's definitely someone else who needs to be taken out and needs to be taken out while the NPO is.. pre-occupied. Wonder who it is.

You're right, it is very pragmatic. So I wonder which ally or neutral menace the knife in the back is meant for. Edited January 31, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Daenerys Targaryen]

Yes, you fear us. That's why you need us out of the way. Your coalition has someone already in mind for your next tiff, but you need us busy and out of the way for it. I don't know how the target is, but it's the only logical reason for you to need us locked down. It could even be someone among your own side. But there's definitely someone else who needs to be taken out and needs to be taken out while the NPO is.. pre-occupied. Wonder who it is.

You're right, it is very pragmatic.

But what if the target is yous again? If the NPO leadership would rather curl up in a ball and wait for her enemies to decide her fate, then perhaps those who'd rather do that should step down or the membership remove them. I'lld rather see a strong NPO who challenges those who want to see her burn. But I just want to be entertained, is that to much to ask for?

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Umm.. that makes no sense. Therefore, i have no response. You're saying the coalition would get us out of the way.. just to hit us again when we're already the target? Perhaps you need to re-read what I stated to get a better understanding of my implication and then try to respond again.

You want entertainment?

*Tosses Daenerys a ball of yarn.* There.. go play meow.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Neo Uruk]

But what if the target is yous again? If the NPO leadership would rather curl up in a ball and wait for her enemies to decide her fate, then perhaps those who'd rather do that should step down or the membership remove them. I'lld rather see a strong NPO who challenges those who want to see her burn. But I just want to be entertained, is that to much to ask for?

Are you perhaps the cousin of someone named Rotavele?

[Daenerys Targaryen]

• Quote

Umm.. that makes no sense. Therefore, i have no response. You're saying the coalition would get us out of the way.. just to hit us again when we're already the target? Perhaps you need to re-read what I stated to get a better understanding of my implication and then try to respond again.

You want entertainment?

*Tosses Daenerys a ball of yarn.* There.. go play meow.

You'll still have the numbers and NPO meat shelid following to still be a threat to anyone and even if you aren't the primary target, you'll most likely be pulled in to the war by the treaty chain. I just find it amusing that your saying the other side already has someone in mind for their next tiff like the NPO has no control or influence over it. If you don't have control of NPO's fate then how do you know what those who do have control will do with it?

 

You may have to steal a play from the NpO play book. I hope that makes sense to you so you can figure that out.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

 

• Quote

You'll still have the numbers and NPO meat shelid following to still be a threat to anyone and even if you aren't the primary target, you'll most likely be pulled in to the war by the treaty chain. I just find it amusing that your saying the other side already has someone in mind for their next tiff like the NPO has no control or influence over it. If you don't have control of NPO's fate then how do you know what those who do have control will do with it?

 

You may have to steal a play from the NpO play book. I hope that makes sense to you so you can figure that out.

 

 

Umm.. fraid I don't mind control the leadership of other AAs... so no.. I nor the NPO have no control over who the coalition's next target will be. By the way you think we're all part of some semi-sentient collective scheming who we're going to trash next regardless as to which side we're on.  I'm fairly certain it doesn't work that way.  How do I know the ones arrayed against it? Deduction dear Watson. People are so predictable and their behaviors like telegraphs.

 

Sorry.. no. I don't think I want to steal any plays from NpO's playbook. Not that they aren't clever.. we just have.. stylistic differences.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Daenerys Targaryen]

Are you perhaps the cousin of someone named Rotavele?

No, I am not related to your Dad.