Quick Note from MK

[Diogenes]

If I am so incompetent, why have I got my way?  Again: Do you think this was about opening the Senate to war?  You are blind.  We have closed that door for this war (unless you all want to test our mettle again).

 
"Our mettle" -- as if you are anything other than a convenient mouthpiece for the bulk of your coalition to use as it pleases. Pray-tell  why did "getting your way" involve having GOD nations sanctioned, making a public debacle out of a relatively insignificant sanction that itself was the result of some minor communication issues, and us making an apology that we would willingly have handed out if asked?
 
I don't doubt that you expected this situation to emerge as some sort of PR disaster on our end of things -- the writing is visibly on the wall there, and your hand has been very apparent in the unfolding of these events -- but you've failed rather decisively in that regard. Our alliance, or at least our coalition, is at war with everyone criticizing us for this announcement: at best, you've convinced no one to dislike us that wasn't predisposed to do so. You were of the mind that you'd won this war, when in fact you've done nothing of the sort, and sought the chance to piss on an alliance you despise while you perceived them as vulnerable. We diffused your explosive before it could detonate, however, and although I cannot entirely fault you for it, you are currently stumbling over yourself to salvage what you can of this failed attempt to damage us. If this truly is what you wanted, you're even more delusional than I at first thought. 
 

How clueless are you?  HoT55's sanction was not lifted until yesterday, and it was not lifted by MK.  You honest-to-God are completely clueless, you actually think that the sanction was lifted a week ago and then MK magnanimously never re-instated it, and you're arguing from this false premise based on ignorance.  This is just embarrassing.
You are clueless.
 
 
 MK did not issue the apology because they realized they were wrong.  They issued the apology because CoJ made them.  It isn't "late" because they never acknowledged that they did anything wrong until CoJ brought it home to roost. 

 
We weren't made to do anything, you pompous demagogue. It appears that you've finally been enveloped completely by your delusions of grandeur.  Edited March 7, 2013 by Diogenes

[Longshadow]

You need to pay more attention to what happens in cyberverse, the day already come, NSO used senate sanctions against Kaskus and nobody(besides me) complained.

 

Oh please. But it to bed D34th, you are a fool if you think our sanctioning of Kaskus was not needed.

 

They would have kept fighting on and would have thought they were winning for many more weeks, wasting both our times.

[D34th]

Oh please. But it to bed D34th, you are a fool if you think our sanctioning of Kaskus was not needed.

 

They would have kept fighting on and would have thought they were winning for many more weeks, wasting both our times.

 

Senate sanctions shouldn't be used as weapons in regular war, period. Luckly for NSO they used it against an unconnected alliance and thus NSO could escape unpunished. I'll also not comment about NSO here since it isn't the place, if you want to know or forgot my opinion about it, go re-read my posts in the other thread.

[RevolutionaryRebel]

You mean you didn't know you were giving me what I wanted on a silver platter?

 

You guys want to come over for poker later tonight?

I'm your Huckleberry.

[Nintenderek]

MK, I thought you said you didn't want a sanction war?  However, judging by recent sanctions...

 

http://www.cybernations.net/all_sanctions_view.asp

 

MK is continuing to use sanctions as a form of warfare.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Nintenderek

[Dcrews]

 
It is utterly hilarious, and shows your complete lack of knowledge on the way things work on Planet Bob, if you think our side would engage a "win by any means" strategy that involves sanctioning .... and then turn around and roll it out on a 3K NS nation. Are you really kidding yourself into believing that?

I didn't coin the term, one of your buddies did the favor for me in the rouge senator thread. The fact that they decided to bother hitting him even though he is strategically insignificant is even worse. Hell, if it was a strategic move at least you could reason it out. This crap a sanctioning for lulz for no apparent rhyme or reason and thinking you could without a response is why people your friends in the Kingdom are so popularly disliked.

[Dochartaigh]

No.

 

What I wrote isn't that being off your AA is an act of cowardice. You might want to go back and read again. What I wrote is this:

1)If you declare a war while being off your regular AA but your government insists you are still a full member, then they should either acknowledge the alliance they are at war with (so, if I leave my AA to attack a member of, say, TTK, I'm saying TOP should acknowledge its state of war with TTK) OR they should label me as rogue.

 

What I then said is that this new double standard where an alliance doesn't recognize (or announce) its wars is one that reeks of cowardice. People using fake AAs, in themselves, aren't cowards. It's a valid war tactic to escape staggers, one that has proven to be effective to some extent. The cowardice is at the government level for not assuming wars, not at the individual level for declaring them. Notice the difference?

 

The difference is that, for example, MK recognizes itself at war with GLoF. I have no problem if they (MK) send members to the "lol.AA" and "dbdc" and "allarchon" AAs and DoW on GLoF: MK recognize them as full members AND recognize war with GLoF. What I have a problem with is HoT DoW'ing on EvU from his AA, his AA insisting he's still a member but acting like that war never happened and they're not at war with EvU. 

 

Now, Doch pointed out a good example. We indeed have a member of TOP who did that very thing by attacking a member of IRON. I wish that he didn't do it and now I wish that we would assume that war but I'm afraid I am not a member of TOP's executive government.

 

I'm against it for the bad precedent it sets. I'm against it because it will definitely be abused in the future. I'm against it because it was a good tradition to have alliances acknowledge and declare their wars publicly.

 

My apologies if you thought I was talking about the cowardice bit as I have no issue with nations going off AA to hit another alliance. As you stated, I was simply going for the second point you made about the double standards. I also like the public DoW tradition and am sad and disappointed that TIO did not DoW MK properly. But it is what it is.

[Mogar]

MK, I thought you said you didn't want a sanction war?  However, judging by recent sanctions...

 

http://www.cybernations.net/all_sanctions_view.asp

 

MK is continuing to use sanctions as a form of warfare.

not to be a dick, but read the OP, they're sanctioning big z because he sanctioned 2 MKers.

 

My apologies if you thought I was talking about the cowardice bit as I have no issue with nations going off AA to hit another alliance. As you stated, I was simply going for the second point you made about the double standards. I also like the public DoW tradition and am sad and disappointed that TIO did not DoW MK properly. But it is what it is.

fairly certain TIO signed onto one of the multiple threads that stated there will be an acknowledgement of war against anyone hitting the first 5.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

Just dropping my two cents on this issue:

 

Why would anyone on the Umbrella side be sanctioning people roguing on other alliances, when they're doing practically the same thing with the whole Doombird AA?

 

FYI, DBDC is an alliance:

 

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/114848-dbdc-doetreatydow/

[Schattenmann]

"Our mettle" -- as if you are anything other than a convenient mouthpiece for the bulk of your coalition to use as it pleases.

 

Go ahead, then, big boy: Sanction EQ again.

 

I don't doubt that you expected this situation to emerge as some sort of PR disaster on our end of things -- the writing is visibly on the wall there, and your hand has been very apparent in the unfolding of these events -- but you've failed rather decisively in that regard. Our alliance, or at least our coalition, is at war with everyone criticizing us for this announcement: at best, you've convinced no one to dislike us that wasn't predisposed to do so. You were of the mind that you'd won this war, when in fact you've done nothing of the sort, and sought the chance to piss on an alliance you despise while you perceived them as vulnerable. We diffused your explosive before it could detonate, however, and although I cannot entirely fault you for it, you are currently stumbling over yourself to salvage what you can of this failed attempt to damage us. If this truly is what you wanted, you're even more delusional than I at first thought.

 

Within hours of our sanctions, you came running to our coalition, asked what we wanted, were told, and did it.  If that's your definition of a "decisive failure" I'll take them all week.

If you don't like being "pissed on" while you're "vulnerable" then I'd suggest getting your shit together rather than continuing to sob on my sleeve.  You're stewing in your own pot.

 

Sanction EQ again.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Schattenmann

[magicninja]

The hell with it guys sanction everyone...switch to brown. Seriously though. Sanctioning combatants is pretty lame unless they are actually a rogue. NUTKASE! Yes, yes. We went to AI to confirm and they said he wasn't one of their guys. So, by pretty much everyone's definition a ghost rogue. HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT FROM DOOMBIRD! Well they aren't ghosting actual alliances in most cases and we all know they are Umb and whoever's members swapping AA's to mess with your tracking. 

[Wyrmon]

Go ahead, then, big boy: Sanction EQ again.

 

 

Within hours of our sanctions, you came running to our coalition, asked what we wanted, were told, and did it.  If that's your definition of a "decisive failure" I'll take them all week.

If you don't like being "pissed on" while you're "vulnerable" then I'd suggest getting your shit together rathen than continuing to sob on my sleeve.  You're stewing in your own pot.

 

Sanction EQ again.

And you have the unmitigated temerity to brazenly flaunt your own moral double standard and claim it as a victory in a terribly cliche "ends justify the means" pastiche.  Truly a great new world order you are building.  

[Schattenmann]

Truly a great new world order you are building.  

 

Don't you want to live in the same world you're defending?  I don't see what your complaint is; you might thank me.  But you've missed the point.

 

As I have said here, elsewhere, and in this thread, MK and its clingers-on have grown too used to using one set of standards for themselves at the same time as another for everyone else.  We're done with all that, and if we need to beat it into your brains by physically imposing one set of rules, that's what we'll do.  Your 8-day sanction party ended within hours of its collision with reality, and we do not expect the same mistake to be made again.  Why?  It benefits everyone.

[Azaghul]

I didn't coin the term, one of your buddies did the favor for me in the rouge senator thread. The fact that they decided to bother hitting him even though he is strategically insignificant is even worse. Hell, if it was a strategic move at least you could reason it out. This crap a sanctioning for lulz for no apparent rhyme or reason and thinking you could without a response is why people your friends in the Kingdom are so popularly disliked.

So there's no "rhyme or reason" to fulfilling a formal sanction request from another alliance.  Got it.

[Diogenes]

Go ahead, then, big boy: Sanction EQ again.

 

 

Within hours of our sanctions, you came running to our coalition, asked what we wanted, were told, and did it.  If that's your definition of a "decisive failure" I'll take them all week.

If you don't like being "pissed on" while you're "vulnerable" then I'd suggest getting your shit together rather than continuing to sob on my sleeve.  You're stewing in your own pot.

 

Sanction EQ again.

 

What? We have no desire to pursue further sanctions against Equilibrium members or alliances, and the Mushroom Kingdom has never endorsed the use of sanctions as weapons. This should be readily apparent, given that it's more or less why this announcement was crafted.

 

As for "running to your coalition," we simply clarified the sanctioning situation as being limited to the MK-GOD conflict, and made apparent that sanctions placed against GOD would not reflect MK policy towards the rest of Equilibrium. We did not ask what you wanted, in short, but sought to ascertain that any actions we decided to undertake would not be misunderstood or misinterpreted. 

[Dochartaigh]

not to be a dick, but read the OP, they're sanctioning big z because he sanctioned 2 MKers.

 

fairly certain TIO signed onto one of the multiple threads that stated there will be an acknowledgement of war against anyone hitting the first 5.

 

Yes and? If that is the case, TIO is at war with TOP, ODN, and Int as well. I would rather just have a straightforward DoW as tradition has had it. Just because TIO does something does not mean I have to agree with it simply because I am in TIO. Just ask anyone I have ever been in an alliance with, I am not some blind followerer and have a tendency to ensure my voice is heard.

[Don Chele]

What? We have no desire to pursue further sanctions against Equilibrium members or alliances, and the Mushroom Kingdom has never endorsed the use of sanctions as weapons. This should be readily apparent, given that it's more or less why this announcement was crafted.

 

As for "running to your coalition," we simply clarified the sanctioning situation as being limited to the MK-GOD conflict, and made apparent that sanctions placed against GOD would not reflect MK policy towards the rest of Equilibrium. We did not ask what you wanted, in short, but sought to ascertain that any actions we decided to undertake would not be misunderstood or misinterpreted. 

You do get that there was no MK-GOD conflict, right? GOD was simply the fastest senator to impose sanctions Schatt requested, and I asked the others to call off their senators before the situation escalated due to the negotiations.  Schatt already posted the text of his all-color request in this thread.

[Schattenmann]

What? We have no desire to pursue further sanctions against Equilibrium members or alliances, and the Mushroom Kingdom has never endorsed the use of sanctions as weapons. This should be readily apparent, given that it's more or less why this announcement was crafted.

 

It's late, this is it for the night:  This announcement "was crafted" because MK was held to its own standard as applied to HoT55, and was required to make things right in order to get the sanctions lifted from lebubu and WhatOnceWas.  It does not exist because MK wanted it to, or ever had any intention of doing it on its own as evidenced by your repeated refusals and mocking of requests to remove the sanction for over a week. 

Within hours of tasting the People's Elbow, you found God and made it right.  No one--not even your allies--buys that this was a coincidence or on MK's to do list.

 

You screwed up, we showed you the error of your ways, you fixed things.  Good on you, that's all we wanted.

[Mogar]

Yes and? If that is the case, TIO is at war with TOP, ODN, and Int as well. I would rather just have a straightforward DoW as tradition has had it. Just because TIO does something does not mean I have to agree with it simply because I am in TIO. Just ask anyone I have ever been in an alliance with, I am not some blind followerer and have a tendency to ensure my voice is heard.

there would have been, at minimum, 30 different topics posted in a single day, I'm perfectly fine with keeping everything contained into a few threads, I didnt ever hear you complaining about Umbrella doing blanket declarations in wars previously, whats the difference?

[Tick1]

Out of all the things to discuss and dispute we have this many opinions on something so small. Instead of accepting the apology as it is, everyone has to voice an opinion that in reality changes nothing in regards to this war. I guess I'll hop on the wagon, good sirs and fair ladies. You guys should totally announce another DoW on Mushroom Kingdom for a completely different reason. That way they know you are super serious.

[Diogenes]

It's late, this is it for the night:  This announcement "was crafted" because MK was held to its own standard as applied to HoT55, and was required to make things right in order to get the sanctions lifted from lebubu and WhatOnceWas.  It does not exist because MK wanted it to, or ever had any intention of doing it on its own as evidenced by your repeated refusals and mocking of requests to remove the sanction for over a week. 

Within hours of tasting the People's Elbow, you found God and made it right.  No one--not even your allies--buys that this was a coincidence or on MK's to do list.

 

You screwed up, we showed you the error of your ways, you fixed things.  Good on you, that's all we wanted.

 

Whatever helps you sleep at night, although I doubt any amount of rest will restore your sanity.   

[Mogar]

Out of all the things to discuss and dispute we have this many opinions on something so small. Instead of accepting the apology as it is, everyone has to voice an opinion that in reality changes nothing in regards to this war. I guess I'll hop on the wagon, good sirs and fair ladies. You guys should totally announce another DoW on Mushroom Kingdom for a completely different reason. That way they know you are super serious.

If I got a genuine apology from NG, i would accept it, but since I didnt get an apology from them and have read the logs of why MK made this apology, I think it should be taken with a grain silo of salt.

[Tick1]

If I got a genuine apology from NG, i would accept it, but since I didnt get an apology from them and have read the logs of why MK made this apology, I think it should be taken with a grain silo of salt.

 

So why not just leave it at that, a grain silo of salt? Do you have the throw dirt at the silo? What good does that do? Then you just have salt all across the grass and that doesn't do any good. Take the apology as you want and leave it at that, it's merely a statement nothing more nothing less. As is everyone's apology in this world, merely semantics. Children in adult bodies, get over it.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Tick1

[Mogar]

So why not just leave it at that, a grain silo of salt? Do you have the throw dirt at the silo? What good does that do? Then you just have salt all across the grass and that doesn't do any good. Take the apology as you want and leave it at that, it's merely a statement nothing more nothing less. As is everyone's apology in this world, merely semantics. Children in adult bodies, get over it.

because if i tell you to post an apology, thats entirely different than you doing it out of the goodness of your heart, so trying to spin it into some kind of we're so moral and just when it was pretty much forced.

[Tick1]

because if i tell you to post an apology, thats entirely different than you doing it out of the goodness of your heart, so trying to spin it into some kind of we're so moral and just when it was pretty much forced.

 

So what you are saying, is if they hadn't posted the apology you wouldn't be complaining that they didn't post an apology? Cause I know for a fact, someone would be complaining, mainly HoT, but someone for sure would be complaining.