Upper End of the War

[WorldConqueror]

Would be just like Bipolar if you did surrender after a short amount of time :P

Uh you sure you're not thinking of NpO?

[the rebel]

Uh you sure you're not thinking of NpO?

 

TOP-CnG front lasted just under 10 weeks and could of gone on alot longer as the potential was there, so the war was cut short in my opinion...

[WorldConqueror]

TOP-CnG front lasted just under 10 weeks and could of gone on alot longer as the potential was there, so the war was cut short in my opinion...

Fair enough, I wouldn't exactly call ten weeks 'surrender(ing) after a short amount of time' though.

[Subcomandante VL]

The fact is that there are either 0 or 1 (if it's 1, it won't be for much longer) warmode eQuilibrium nations remaining in the top 250.

I'm not really an expert here, but I just checked the top 250 and don't see how this is even relevant considering at least 157 of them (quit counting after this point) are in alliances that aren't even involved.

 

Granted this number was likely lower when the war began of course, but 250 seems to be a rather abritrary place to pick at this point.

 

Edit: What I'm really trying to say is come out and play already, neutral menace.

Edited February 18, 2013 by VladimirLenin

[rsoxbronco1]

I'm not really an expert here, but I just checked the top 250 and don't see how this is even relevant considering at least 157 of them (quit counting after this point) are in alliances that aren't even involved.

 

Granted this number was likely lower when the war began of course, but 250 seems to be a rather abritrary place to pick at this point.

 

Edit: What I'm really trying to say is come out and play already, neutral menace.

The 250 number has to do with the game mechanics of who can declare on who.

 

If you're the #250 sized nation, you could be 5 k NS, but if Hime decides it's go time, no NS range difference will save you.

 

You can hit anyone within 250 nations of you, as measured by NS.  When this war began, there were quite a few more eQuilibrium nations in that range than there are now.

[Subcomandante VL]

Of course. But the same could be said for nations on the DH/CnG side as well, so again I don't see the relevance unless the case is that one side has lost drastically more than the other.

 

Anyone been keeping track specifically of the top 250 since the start of the war? All I've seen is discussion of those over 100k and it might be an interesting comparison to get into and a way to get us back on topic.

[rsoxbronco1]

 unless the case is that one side has lost drastically more than the other.

You're getting close.

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

As I read these posts I wonder how many people posting about the top tier have actually fought in the top tier during this war, I know a bunch of the DH guys have, but I wonder if the EQ guys have, because it doesn't seem like it.  If they did, they would know we are absolutely dominating them, you talk about the 3-1, you are correct DH has been fighting 3 DH vs 1 EQ in the top tier.  Also many has spoken about the DH re-buying infra to jump out of the fight, I have noticed a few EQ buying infra to jump into our range, and getting promptly and quickly beat down each time, that cant be good for EQ warchests.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

Would be just like Bipolar if you did surrender after a short amount of time :P

Aren't you cute. We fought for the ten most bloodied weeks in CN's history, losing 75% of our NS and inflicting heavy casualties on our enemies. Anybody can last a year in Peace Mode (well, save for most folks on your side). FAN did two years. Fighting with all of your nations, in a very tough war, is something else entirely. We also surrendered mostly because peace wouldn't be given to our allies if we didn't surrender as well. You know, those allies who are currently on your side. You know, IRON and TORN, to name only those two. 

The potential was there for what, exactly? Actually, what the bloody hell do you know about anything?

 

 

It hasn't even been a month yet. I guarantee things will begin to look bleaker for TOP as time goes by. 

And aside from the fact that most wars do end up being 3v1, you'll find that not a single stagger has been blown on our part. Taking that into account as well as the fact that there are many TOP/TOOTR/TSO/Alchemy nations that just sit and take it, I'd say we're in a pretty good position. But by all means, please do continue with your 'predictions'.

A few staggers have been blown, not to mention the hilarious Lum story. However, I'd give you props for keeping us at war, your front is a capable one, with dedicated people updeclaring a lot.

 

However, you seem to misunderstand me. We (and I) predicted that we would achieve a victory in the upper tier. No matter how you look at it, the numbers don't lie. We were facing a 2.5 to 1 battle in the upper tier on our front. Right now, after a month of war, we're down to 1.5 to 1 and, if we look only at nations in war mode (and remove the permanent peace mode warriors from the equation), we're very close to parity.

 

We also said that you wouldn't have nations above 90k left standing. Look at your numbers. It's very close to be the case. That doesn't mean we're not hurting. We knew we would, most of our adversaries are competent alliances, even former allies in at least three cases. 

Edited February 18, 2013 by Yevgeni Luchenkov

[HHAYD]

As I read these posts I wonder how many people posting about the top tier have actually fought in the top tier during this war, I know a bunch of the DH guys have, but I wonder if the EQ guys have, because it doesn't seem like it.  If they did, they would know we are absolutely dominating them, you talk about the 3-1, you are correct DH has been fighting 3 DH vs 1 EQ in the top tier.  Also many has spoken about the DH re-buying infra to jump out of the fight, I have noticed a few EQ buying infra to jump into our range, and getting promptly and quickly beat down each time, that cant be good for EQ warchests.

 

I was in the upper tier, at 135K NS. It was going smoothly until somebody DoWed on me (he sold his stuff to get down from 175K NS), and the other target suddenly start hitting back, resulting in a 2 v 1 fight.

 

They had the initial advantage with the update attacks (OOC: Studying for an AP Calculus test, sleep deprivation was not an option. :OOC), and later I got consistently screwed over by mine and his spy operations, dispite a 50/50 chance for both of us. I'm pretty sure my spies went in drunk (and always failed), and his spies had cloaking tech.

 

Now I'm just a part of a group of four dragging someone who started at 100K NS down into the shark tank. He's a little under 90K NS as of now. Most likely around 85K by next evening.

 

I find it interesting that a couple of EQ folks in the 60K-80K NS range are collecting tax, in DEFCON 5, and aren't in peace mode. A repeat of DH's upper tier situation. I've never seen something like that before.

 

 

I'll be back here when the first alliance throws in the towel. It's going to be a long war, and the only popcorn I have are four years old (OCC: They are literally that old :OOC).

Edited February 18, 2013 by HHAYD

[leeguy]

A few staggers have been blown, not to mention the hilarious Lum story. However, I'd give you props for keeping us at war, your front is a capable one, with dedicated people updeclaring a lot.

 

I personally don't see what was so hilarious about the Lum story, but to each his own.  :gun: 

[Aeros]

Aren't you cute. We fought for the ten most bloodied weeks in CN's history, losing 75% of our NS and inflicting heavy casualties on our enemies. Anybody can last a year in Peace Mode (well, save for most folks on your side). FAN did two years. Fighting with all of your nations, in a very tough war, is something else entirely. We also surrendered mostly because peace wouldn't be given to our allies if we didn't surrender as well. You know, those allies who are currently on your side. You know, IRON and TORN, to name only those two. 

 

I don't get TOP's sour grapes about this tbh. The divergence between DR and DH was something everyone saw coming. You guys had over a year to see it coming and plan for it. Its not like it was a bolt from the blue, so lets not kid ourselves. TOP chose one of their allies over all there other allies. There is nothing wrong with this and it was a choice that had to be made. But lets not try and pretend that it was a choice others made for you. I know for a fact TOP had ample opportunity to stay with IRON et al and made the deliberate decision not too. That decision rests with you alone. 

[Saladjoe]

I personally don't see what was so hilarious about the Lum story, but to each his own.  :gun: 

And therein lies the hilarity. 

[Subcomandante VL]

You're getting close.

Yet still all I see is unsupported claims.

 

It's not that I personally care because I don't particularly like either side, but if you're gonna make claims about statistics why not have them in front of you hmm?

[leeguy]

And therein lies the hilarity. 

 

Oh relax and take a joke. We don't always have to be at each others throats.

[The Corrupt Teacher]

One thing I will add about surrendering and resolve being part of how long this war goes especially in regards to CnG alliances being hit, since I'll admit we're not built as heavy as DH, is that we'd probably have been much more willing to surrender had it just been our allies NPO and their initial DR buddies fighting. Then it would be more about Umbrella's mistake goading AI etc. but the second you brought along the XX/SF trash with you our resolve keep fighting went through the roof and you blew it there. I can't think of a single person in CnG who wasn't happy when we found out the likes of Sparta, NpO, Legion, and others attacked us and it was completely obvious they joined in just to try to kick us when we were down as they have never shown the initiative or spine to do this themselves at any point in the past. Stats and meat grinder regardless I don't think CnG plans on leaving until DH is done with their side, and I can't see us paying a cent to anyone either.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

I don't get TOP's sour grapes about this tbh. The divergence between DR and DH was something everyone saw coming. You guys had over a year to see it coming and plan for it. Its not like it was a bolt from the blue, so lets not kid ourselves. TOP chose one of their allies over all there other allies. There is nothing wrong with this and it was a choice that had to be made. But lets not try and pretend that it was a choice others made for you. I know for a fact TOP had ample opportunity to stay with IRON et al and made the deliberate decision not too. That decision rests with you alone. 

I don't understand your response.

I was replying to the other tool who was saying we surrendered early during BiPolar and didn't fight until the end, even commenting that the war was starting to have "potential" (I don't know, I guess being the most destructive war in the history of CN up until that point was not enough). While he might find it cute to insult us, he was also insulting his current allies in IRON and TORN by doing so. They bled as much as we did during BiPolar.

 

I was by no means commenting on the current situation. We have no problems with our present state of affairs. We expected this war. I think everybody did. 

[Vol Navy]

Yev you know we're getting crushed, just face the facts. If we surrender now we might be able to survive this onslaught brought about by UE and SNAFU.

 

With half your alliance in PM since the start, you're average NS has still dropped by 30,000. I'm fighting someone who was 175k at the start of the war. He's lost 100,000 NS, really quite a bit more but be buys from 3000 up to 4000 infra every day to win GA's.

 

You have war chests to recover well but don't pretend you've not been smashed pretty hard.

[JoshuaR]

“...in war, they will kill some of us; we shall destroy all of them”
― Thomas Jefferson

[Stetson76]

Yev you know we're getting crushed, just face the facts. If we surrender now we might be able to survive this onslaught brought about by UE and SNAFU.

 

Seems you personally will survive it just fine.

 

But back on topic, when I declared war on TOP's new Grand Hospitaller BEazy (he's not on the TOP AA currently) we had essentially identical nations.  He had just popped out of PM and I had already had a round+.  We're still essentially the same size but while I have 23 nukes, 300 more tech and just got finished fighting another set of updeclares he's down to two nukes little chance of getting out of the fight to restock.  That's the way this is going to continue once the DMZ is established.  I don't want to take anything away from him, he's the guy that got me into this game and a pretty good dude but in the long run, if we continue down our respective paths I'll be able to start picking softer targets and the minor discrepancies in our nations will grow wider and wider and he'll have a lot farther to go to catch back up to me.

 

P.S. Ai and Umb thank you for this war, I've wanted to fight him for ages.  :D 

[Saladjoe]

Seems you personally will survive it just fine.

You sure did your research. It's not like I'm sitting our #1 nation or anything. 

 

Also these folks that come and start chest beating about their current battles like what they're doing (despite any statistical embellishments) is what's going on across the entire front is laughable. Please apply something not resembling tunnel vision and come back and talk to me. 

[Baldr]

I assumed he was saying you would survive just fine because you have been in peace mode for a month, and the last time you fought was last July.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

People arguing points by bringing up anecdotal evidence aren't exactly helping their cause. Much less when this is a question of statistics. You can pinpoint all you want that Salajol's own nation is in Peace Mode. Or that our Grandmaster is getting dogpiled. Or even that I did a few stupid spy ops. If it helps you sleep at night, all the better.

 

The fact of the matter is that from the beginning of this thread - and this war - we have said and repeated that we would destroy your upper tier. We were first told that "two or three" super nations would be all that survived. Then it became a dozen, then 20 or 30. Now, you're calling in more allies and our people are completly safe above 115k NS. Our front is the closest one and you still can barely keep parity in war mode nations, where it matters. Heck, you needed a whole wave of SNAFU and Sengoku nations up declaring like madmen (often 20k NS above their own nations) just to keep us at war.

 

If I were you, I'd start thinking about negotiating a peace and using the number games to repopulate an upper tier that can fight. And maybe, in a year or so from now, with more preparation, relaunch an offensive.

[magicninja]

There's two things to take in consideration. How much damage one can do, and how much damage they can absorb. EQ has the numbers to absorb the damage.

 

...

 

Hmm, now there's five targets for him to nuke, and three of them are dealing a similar amount of damage he dealt them. And all of them are guarntee to win GA attacks.

 

He seems to hate me though. I'm always the first one to get nuked. :mellow:

 

 

See this is where you are making a mistake. Yes, maybe as a whole EQ can absorb the damage...but there are some alliances on your side that can't afford it. It boils down to whether they realize it or not and if they do are they willing to take the damage (perhaps permanently crippling damage) for whatever your goal is here. 

[shahenshah]

 

See this is where you are making a mistake. Yes, maybe as a whole EQ can absorb the damage...but there are some alliances on your side that can't afford it. It boils down to whether they realize it or not and if they do are they willing to take the damage (perhaps permanently crippling damage) for whatever your goal is here. 

lol,
Did you just pull that out of nowhere? Some of the alliances on your side are under intense pressure, no where near as close as to any on our side and they have little or no chance of escaping the cycle. Ours are free to move around, sit back, relax, restock, collect and hit back again. You have to actually put pressure and you wasted a good chunk of your resources trying to pressure AI of all the alliances. The best you can hope to achieve is have 90%+ of your alliances in peace mode and that my friend is just more pressure, have fun decaying in 2013. Also, nothing against GATO, just that you seem to have assumed the position of being dQ's [ooc]Saeed al-Sahhaf. [/ooc] Edited February 18, 2013 by shahenshah