A Statement from BFF

[Master Hakai]

BFF absolutely did the right thing here. It's not rocket appliances, people.

Good move, BFF. I'm proud to have you as allies.

[sigelopisan]

[quote name='Master Hakai' timestamp='1357893698' post='3074677']
BFF absolutely did the right thing here. It's not rocket appliances, people.

Good move, BFF. I'm proud to have you as allies.
[/quote]

This kind of ally you are proud of? OMG

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1357861093' post='3074206']
If at this point NEW attacks head of the cancellation time, BFF and every other ally will know they are just being used. In fact I will go so far as to say if they last the 7 days without attacking, I will issue a public apology to them for calling them stupid and assumed they were using allies like pawns.[/quote]

NEW stated to BFF before this announcement was posted that they intend to not attack out of respect for BFF.

[quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1357864724' post='3074260']
trying to strike backroom deals so you take minimal damage if you have to enter in their defence is pretty poor. If you agree to enter on a limited conflict basis it diminishes the act of coming to their aid, essentially you are entering so you can save face while your MADP partners get theirs smashed in because you have no real intention of being of any assistance.[/quote]

While I think BFF made the right move considering the circumstances; I agree with McRabt here. The fact that you (BFF) went into these discussions behind NEWs back with allies [b]and[/b] non allies is astounding.

[quote name='mythicknight' timestamp='1357869847' post='3074332']
Feel free to show where we ever backed down. We've been in communication with NEW since we heard about the situation, and now that they've stopped aiding we're satisfied. If they are still attacked, I fully intend to defend them in whatever way I can, not try and weasel out of an obligation using a feigned offense, nor try to coordinate a farcical short-term defense with the very people that attacked them and then leave NEW to be "demolished" by the world. That clear enough?
[/quote]

TORN canceled its treaty with NEW prior to this announcement being posted I believe. Correct me if I am wrong.

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1357869860' post='3074333']
I like how people are trying to chew out BFF while they were NEW's only ally committed to actually doing anything for them (despite how retarded NEW is and how no one could fault them for not enabling that crap).
[/quote]

BFF is doing this, Int is just planning on only aiding BFF and not helping NEW out or canceling and TORN cancelled.

I guess that leaves DB4D; who, as far as I know, are standing by NEW. They believe that NEW aided an ally who was at war because the alliance they were at war with was aided.

If that results in war against NEW I would imagine they would defend them because if DB4D was in that situation you sure as hell know NEW would aid DB4D monetarily if not financially.

[quote name='Sniper Joe' timestamp='1357870290' post='3074345']
You have to wonder what NG's angle is here considering how cordial they were in working with us through this nonsense. It almost seems like people are just trying to score political points here...that couldn't be true, could it?
[/quote]

Entertainment I'd imagine.

[quote name='Jgoods45' timestamp='1357871976' post='3074378']
I have no idea whats going on here nor do I really care but good luck to all involved parties and thank you for giving me something to read.
[/quote]

You're welcome.

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1357873987' post='3074416']
His post leads me to wonder whether he was paying attention at all during the situation. NEW made it very clear that they were going in, that they would be activating their treaty, and that they would be expecting BFF to follow them.[/quote]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1357874566' post='3074427']
NEW was going to get help from BFF as long as the treaty grace period was in place. How does that not make sense?
[quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1357874777' post='3074431']
[color=#000000][font=Arial]BFF would enter.... NPO and NSO would counter BFF...[/font][/color]However [color=#000000][font=Arial]BFF would be fighting a non nuclear war with NPO/NSO for a set amount of time. Then they would get white peace, and get aid from allies.[/font][/color]

What does NEW get in return? They get dogpiled by everyone and their mothers.
[/quote][/quote]

I don't think it was for a 'set amount of time.' The set amount of time was referring to the 7 day cancellation period (I admit the logs were hectic though so I can see where your confusion comes from)

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1357874953' post='3074436']
That was one of many proposals tossed around about how to best figure out how to keep the war from escalating past just BFF. BFF, Int, NPO, and others had to think about more than just their allies involved (or soon to be involved) in the conflict.
[/quote]

My question is why is BFF discussing this with NPO, whom they are not allied to afaik, and not their MADP partner.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1357876029' post='3074460']
[u]Chax:[/u]
NSO and Non Grata found out about NEW's aid drop to Kaskus. They're probably going to declare war on NEW.[/quote]
How did NSO+NG find out? I'm under the impression that this conversation was before it happened. Which means NEW must have told someone; and the only logs I have seen is of NEW telling BFF about it as it is implied here.

If that is the case why does the OP suggest NEW was not talking to BFF about it?
[quote][i]Vibi:[/i]
We could use help[b] if you dont mind[/b]
we activating treaty [/quote]

BFF was dragged into this? Between this log and the one Don dropped with Coerix it looks like NEW was giving BFF multiple outs here.

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1357877461' post='3074502']
Not NPO, but others who were in the room.
[/quote]

Os suggested it, yes but it was accepted by all in the room.

[quote name='OsRavan' timestamp='1357878283' post='3074523']
BFF has been pretty up front about what they are doing and why, and in my book you cant ask for more than that.[/quote]

After the backroom dealing of their own ally on a silver platter, yes BFF has been completely upfront.

EDIT: I mean this with sincerity. I agree BFF was put in a tough position and I think they did the best they could given the circumstances.

[quote name='OsRavan' timestamp='1357880165' post='3074555']
I'm sorry. Maybe you didnt mean it that way, but I kind of laughed at that. Am i missing something or are those 'diagrams' not someones joke? Next ill start putting d34 propoganda up and using that as proof for my various OWF statements.
[/quote]

I think you are missing something. Those were drawn by int while they BFF NG and NPO discussed how to best hit NEW without getting too much blood on their hands.

I guess you weren't invited?

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1357880823' post='3074567']
I'll address a few points I've seen come up, and I want people to understand that I've been nothing but transparent and truthful this entire time. If you can point out me lying, we'll talk.

<snip> If that further helps guarantee that the situation will not blossom into something global [b](again, I didn't want UnknownSmurf to get credit for that)[/b], thus protecting our allies, then you must see the scale here. On one hand I had an ally we intended to cancel on who put us into this situation. On the other hand, we have every member of BFF plus all of our allies. Where, I ask, would you go?[/quote]

I hope you do realize this war is not in my power nor should any of it be credited to me. I will be the first to admit that this has nothing to do with my plans or whatever; ego deflated.

I went out of my way to make sure it didn't escalate a month ago when I offered myself up to ZI to NSO. Unfortunately that did not work out.

[quote]Now, onto my next point, the issue of TheDon: He has been talking with me, and (correct me here if I'm wrong, Don) his reaction in this thread was based largely on emotions, stress, and a desire to let his voice be heard in the situation. I do not fault him for that, I hold no ill-will toward him, and I still see him as a friend and a strong alliance-mate. We are working to complete a solid, factual picture of the leadup to to the NEW/BFF situation, so please give us time on that.

The number of proposals BFF was thrown in the 20+ hours this crisis existed cannot be counted on two hands. Everybody and their mother was trying to manipulate, coax and pressure us into making[i] [/i][i]their [/i]side come out on top. A wise man talked to me last night, and his words resonated deeply. Brehon of NPO, I thank you for this. He pointed out to me, to sum it up, $%&@ the OWF, $%&@ PR, $%&@ what other people think. This is a BFF situation, and BFF needs make a decision for BFF, not anybody else.[/quote]

Interesting. Because if you believe what he says you have to accept that he is saying that, and everything else he says, in the interest of NPO. You could quite literally take him to mean that dumping your allies while taking minimal damage is best for your alliance (I imagine he said this to you while you guys planned your faux war). If that is true, then you must see that he does not want this war to escalate. Which is reiterated by the fact that he declared on Kaskus and not NEW directly.

The question remains, why? Does he not believe he is in a position to win said war at this time or via this spark; or does he not want it for another reason?

[quote]Today, we came together with several different !@#$%* proposals. We were not going to cut and run on NEW, sorry. We were not going to ride in nukes-blazing with them against NPO either and kill our alliance in a war we had absolutely no say in starting. We found a middle ground and we went with it. Was it distasteful and disgraceful to negotiate a limited war with NPO behind NEW's back? Absolutely. I understood that at the time, I understand it now, and I accept full responsibility for it. I assure you it was not done out of selfishness for myself, but out of my desire to protect BFF as best as possible.[/quote]

Why not just downgrade to an oDoAP? Rhetorical question; we all know it is because you had to reassure NPO that you were not leading them into a trap.

You said the limited war was an idea that was thrown out; was cancelling on NEW and then letting NPO attack after the cancellation period the one you eventually agreed on?


[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1357884034' post='3074613']
OOC: Guess somebody couldn't find the text box button in paint... heh
[/quote]
Indonesian paint does not have a text box; fun fact. Does that mean NEW is actually pulling the strings here and playing NG/NPO/Int/others via BFF?! :tinfoilhat: [size=1]this is not serious. gtfo.[/size]

Edited January 11, 2013 by Unknown Smurf

[gantanX]

hehehe, told you this would happen NEW

on the good side, you can always jump into a war anytime you want

Edited January 11, 2013 by gantanX

[sigelopisan]

[quote name='thedon125' timestamp='1357873152' post='3074401']
[color=#000000][font=Arial]I am airing this because I am saddened by the treatment of our long-time ally, NEW. Gov of BFF, you cannot kick an ally to the curb and seriously expect good PR from the OWF, though I know that was your plan.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial]As Stewie, MCRABBIT, and assorted other members of the OWF are alluding to, yes, within hours of this nonsense starting, certain gov members were on the phone with Brehon and assorted others trying to fix the war, to ensure BFF would walk out unscathed. If NEW were to have kicked off the war, BFF would have followed right after. NPO and NSO would counter BFF, and the expansion would end there. BFF would fight non-nuclear combat with NPO/NSO until our treaty obligation ended, then white peace would begin. ODN and INT would aidbomb us, while half of Bob dogpiled on NEW. I believe these diagrams show the picture well enough (I do not take credit for these, someone else made them, they may step forward if they want to take credit).[/font][/color]
[url="http://imgur.com/a/6GK72"][color=#1155cc][font=Arial][u]http://imgur.com/a/6GK72[/u][/font][/color][/url]

[color=#000000][font=Arial]]Much of the nonsense was kicked off when we queried vibi from NEW, to get the story. Unfortunately, English is not vibi’s strong point, so out of the gate, we made some rather dumb assumptions “NEW is just trying to kick off a huge war, NEW is planning to drag us down with them, NEW has been conspiring against us all along!!!!”[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial]Then, coekrix came online later that evening, and lo and behold, none of that was really true (coekrix has far better English skills, and so it is much easier to figure out what he is saying). The aidbomb was a spur of the moment decision on NEW’s part, and yes, they did expect to get countered by someone. NEW likes their war, what can I say. However, they would not have pulled us in to burn unless we were on-board. They actually asked us (FEAR/BFF) to stay out during NEW-DF, and I have no doubts that they would have done the same here. NEW is not, and has never been manipulative, and to treat them as we did is despicable.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial]<coekrix[NEW]> it's not only bout NEW[/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial]<coekrix[NEW]> but BFF as well[/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial]<coekrix[NEW]> we will end this war[/background][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial]<coekrix[NEW]> NEW has to help kaskus[/background][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial]<coekrix[NEW]> but NEW doesn't wanna BFF got crushed too[/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial]<coekrix[NEW]> we have to think bout you[/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial]<coekrix[NEW]> coz this isn't bout NEW self[/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial]<coekrix[NEW]> it's started because third party, which is K[/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial]<coekrix[NEW]> if this is only bout NEW of BFF, we won't think twice [/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial]Clearly, NEW is a bunch of puppetmasters.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial]NEW, if you still choose to go in, know that your former BFF’s have alerted all the wolves and baited a trap just for you. You’ll be in for a tough fight, though I suppose that’s what ya’ll enjoy.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial]Chax, please remove my name from the OP of this conversation. You know as well as I do that I wanted to give NEW a proper send-off, not this garbage.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial]NEW, in my opinion, you have always been steadfast allies. Sure you have a thirst for war, but you have always stood by us. If we ever needed your help, you were always among the first to respond, and we have truly let you guys down. Besides, you made Bob interesting for us, and it is unfortunate to see this tie cut in this manner. You deserved us to go in guns blazing, even if we still canceled after 7 days. None of this “fixed war” nonsense. Even cutting the treaty and saying “you violated the spirit of the treaty, we will not protect you” would have been more courteous.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial]BFF has clearly abandoned the values that made the bloc great, and today is a sad day in CN for me.[/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial]--[/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial]TheDon125[/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial]-Former Trium of FEAR[/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial]-Former dMoFA of Europa[/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial]-Former Trium of BFF[/font][/color]
[/quote]

You have my respect and my gun.

[Master Hakai]

[quote name='sigelopisan' timestamp='1357895514' post='3074680']
This kind of ally you are proud of? OMG
[/quote]
Yeah man, for sure. I'm sure you're bummed they aren't rushing in right away to defend your side in this beatdown, doesn't make them bad allies. Certainly doesn't mean they didn't do the right thing in this scenario. All the lawyering in the world can't change that.

[Sang Amurwabhumi]

Smart move BFF, I give credit to that

And don't worry about your pix.. I think NEW will wait before the cancellation periods of any treaty is over before entering war (if we really intend to enter any war)

Ciao!

[Sang Amurwabhumi]

[quote name='gantanX' timestamp='1357899393' post='3074700']
hehehe, told you this would happen NEW

on the good side, you can always jump into a war anytime you want
[/quote] I know this might happen too, in politics nothing is eternal, even in NEW.. right gantanX ?

[blackorchid]

I still confuse the essence of Blood For Friends is...

[Sang Amurwabhumi]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1357881529' post='3074579']
"It's okay to be a coward because I have a duty to protect the members!"
[/quote] ROTFLMFAO

[suryanto tan]

I have to ask, but is it true that BFF actually struck a deal for a non-nuclear war so that they can limit the damage they would have taken just so that they can save face and pretend to be "honorable"?

Not that I am surprised, but still I cannot believe it actually happens to us. I remembered when I was in NEW leadership and BFF told us (actually it is Europa told FEAR and FEAR told us) that they intentionally treaty to both UPN and GOONS which are on opposite side just so that they can choose the winning side when a war break.

You guys are truly terrible. Just 1 week ago, you come to us asking us to get ready to defend you because you were about to protect someone in some alliance ZI list. IS the MADP a one way things for you? You get to tell us to go to war to defend you anytime you need, but when the situation is reverse you are citing hundreds of protocol breach to get out of it?
NEW will never blink a bit no matter how bad your odd is fighting your enemy. They will defend you no matter what, at all cost. But you pulling this kind of stuff. Truly deplorable. Sad to see the good friend in FEAR got bad influence from the sissy of Europa. FEAR, we still think you are good people who got mixed with the wrong kind. Terrible kind. Coward and opportunist.

I have yet to see BFF being honorable. Do not cite the DF-KASKUS war. In that war, BFF surrender in 3 days, and complaining all the way. Members of iFOK and PC however, support us restlessly and for that we are forever in debt with them.

Edited January 11, 2013 by suryanto tan

[D34th]

[quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1357908248' post='3074728']
I have to ask, but is it true that BFF actually struck a deal for a non-nuclear war so that they can limit the damage they would have taken just so that they can save face and pretend to be "honorable"?[/quote]

Yeah, it's true, if you read [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=114715&st=240&p=3074567&#entry3074567"]this post[/url] you'll see they admitted it and recognized they were wrong in doing this.

[quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1357908248' post='3074728']
Not that I am surprised, but still I cannot believe it actually happens to us. I remembered when I was in NEW leadership and BFF told us (actually it is Europa told FEAR and FEAR told us) that they intentionally treaty to both UPN and GOONS which are on opposite side just so that they can choose the winning side when a war break.
[/quote]

Unbelievable! Well, not really. Totally expected.

Edited January 11, 2013 by D34th

[Altheus]

This really is like old times.

Honestly, if you're going to have an MADP with anyone you should make damn sure that you're on the same wavelength. Otherwise you'll get burnt.

Also, in response to earlier comments on this thread...

No one has the ability to disband UPN. It just simply cannot be done. Take that as you will.

[Altheus]

[quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1357908248' post='3074728']
Not that I am surprised, but still I cannot believe it actually happens to us. I remembered when I was in NEW leadership and BFF told us (actually it is Europa told FEAR and FEAR told us) that they intentionally treaty to both UPN and GOONS which are on opposite side just so that they can choose the winning side when a war break.
[/quote]

That is interesting to say the least. Could you expand?

[Goldie]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1357910131' post='3074734']
Yeah, it's true, if you read [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=114715&st=240&p=3074567&#entry3074567"]this post[/url] you'll see they admitted it and recognized they were wrong in doing this.
[/quote]

You are outright lying. Clearly no deal was 'struck' or else this thread wouldn't have happened. The whole purpose of this thread is to explain that there is no deal, that what happens to NEW, happens to them, and that BFF will fully honor their treaty, nukes and everything.

Suryanto tan, rather than try to get your information from this hellhole, try to talk privately with people like Brehon, Chax, or others that were actually involved in this situation.

[Goldie]

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1357889173' post='3074665']
It was confirmed to me that Chax offered us the deal, not any outside allies. Any offer would've had to come from NG, NPO, or BFF anyway. Yes, a bunch of ideas where thrown out there, no-nukes being OSRavan's, but Chax was the one to offered us the deal. No one else offered us the deal but BFF/Chax. So I'll say this again:

[i]Neither NG or NPO offered the deal. BFF offered us the deal.[/i]

I would be critical of [i]any [/i]alliance setting up non-nuke deals to look "honorable". For the record, in the future, if my alliance ever agrees to a non-nuke deal, I'll be very critical and disappointed in them as well. I know that VE wants to ride to it's allies' reputation defense. Kudos for being good allies. But facts remain facts.
[/quote]

You're a good guy, I like you, but whoever is feeding you information is outright wrong. The idea of this was suggested to Chax by someone outside of NPO/BFF. Then it was actually proposed to BFF by NPO. Both of these happened in query, and the logs exist. Before you keep railing on without the facts to back you up, I encourage you to simply ask Brehon or Chax where the idea came from.

[mythicknight]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1357897778' post='3074687']
TORN canceled its treaty with NEW prior to this announcement being posted I believe. Correct me if I am wrong.
[/quote]

You'd be wrong. Unless I missed something in the past few days, not sure how that was ever implied by any of us.

Edit: AddAff clarifies below this post. We kept getting pestered in #newsucks about how we were handling things on our end and didn't give any specifics. How that turned into dropping them like its hot, who knows.

Edited January 13, 2013 by mythicknight

[rileyaddaff]

[quote name='Sniper Joe' timestamp='1357883604' post='3074609']
Oh man, this went to !@#$ in a !@#$basket.

TheDon has not been in government for months. He's been inactive and not around and not someone who makes decisions. He wasn't there for all the crap we had to deal with from people from all corners of this godforsaken planet. He got worked up due to sentimentality and his post was emotional cherry picking at best.

Now, you all know for a fact that we did more for NEW than 99% of alliances would have. Most of you would have ran away with your tails between your legs, doing backflips to get out of honoring the treaty. We try to be better than that. So yes, we wanted to do the bare minimum to defend NEW in their retarded crusade. We owed them far less. Most of us were pissed enough to hit them ourselves. And they would have deserved it 100%. We did what we could to not completely $%&@ over our allies and others who would have been inconvenienced by our own lack of foresight and NEW's complete disregard for common decency. TORN was the first to ditch NEW. Why aren't they getting flak when we actually tried to be more than your average snake in the grass elawyer alliance? This is completely ridiculous and I think most of you know that deep down you would have done exactly the same, if not "worse." We were offered a deal to defuse the situation, we didn't seek it out. It was the right thing to do for us and ours and I don't regret it a bit.

NEW doesn't deserve the time of day, let alone an ally willing to go through the BS we have over the past two days just to not run away from the treaty we had with them. I have no regrets.
[/quote]

I like to know how we were the first ones to ditch NEW. Just because we didn't release to you any information on how we were going to handle the situation doesn't mean we ditched them. If this happened 3 months ago it would be a different story(relay of information).

If NEW never found about you guys making a deal I bet the cancellation wouldn't come as quick as it did. You can think deep down that any alliance would do the same to their MDAP, but you find out that many alliances would have handled it differently. casualties before pixels bro

Edited January 11, 2013 by rileyaddaff

[Joseph Black]

[quote name='mythicknight' timestamp='1357911417' post='3074743']


You'd be wrong. Unless I missed something in the past few days, not sure how that was ever implied by any of us.
[/quote]

This is why TORN is good people, BFF remember that the people leading your stings are the same people who spent the last 4 years kicking the crap out of you, once you've run your course do you really believe they'll be there for you?

Im sorry to both TORN and NEW, your friends are still in there somewhere, try to remember that

Edited January 11, 2013 by Muddog

[Thrash]

Robster, remember what we were talking about last night? It's in full effect here.

[LegendoftheSkies]

NEW gonna NEW.

Good luck to our friends in BFF.

[Pingu]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1357881529' post='3074579']
"It's okay to be a coward because I have a duty to protect the members!"
[/quote]

You are small and contemptible.

Chax's war boner may be tiny, as stated in the original announcement, but his balls are massive. No-one who knows anything would accuse him of cowardice.

[Ardus]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1357889887' post='3074669']


I really looks forward for a day when you're not allied or in the same side with GOONS/VE/Umbrella/ODN/GATO/etc just to see your sincere opinion about them, seriously.
[/quote]
You may well be waiting forever. I rather dislike the notion of joining most alliances on CN.

[mdnss69]

[quote name='Muddog' timestamp='1357886358' post='3074637']
Have we meet? You must be new to BFF, I'm the guy who likes to stir the pot when I can. If you don't already know this, I'm looking for a war and all this does is mean that I won't get to see that sexy DoW from BFF ( I know Chax had one cooking)
[/quote]
Yes we have, you were a bollocks back then and you are a bollocks still now. I've been in BFF longer than you stayed in Polaris if that's anything to go by.