sir pwnage Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='thedon125' timestamp='1357873152' post='3074401'] [url="http://imgur.com/a/6GK72"][color=#1155cc][font=Arial][u]http://imgur.com/a/6GK72[/u][/font][/color][/url] [/quote] Probably my best artistic work of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster83 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1357873676' post='3074409'] And now this guy is saying NEW are saints. The same NEW who were threatening on going rogue on VE just a week or 2 ago. The same NEW who claimed they would activate all their treaties. The same NEW who "claim" they would cancel treaties before starting a war, but instead aided an alliance to start one before doing so. You're naive and a sell-out, your word means nothing. [/quote] This guy is a senior member of BFF, and led FEAR at several points. He knows NEW better than most people do. I don't think he was saying that they didn't $%&@ up at all. He was merely pointing out that they deserved better treatment than what they got. And an outright cancellation would of been a lot better than these termed war proposals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCRABT Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1357872527' post='3074390'] Come on man, let's cut the party-line !@#$%^&* and be honest. If we had flatout cancelled on NEW for this and let them take any punishment thrown there way, would you [i]really [/i]be applauding us? Not [i]you [/i]in particular, I mean "you" as in the detractors. You all know full-well the whole thread would be "OMG BFF r !@#$%*^ they cut and run on NEW lol they sucks [/quote] I tend to just say it how it is, they acted recklessly with want and abandonment for your interests, they deserve nothing from you. In my view posting a cancellation thread saying you will honour cancellation period with no intention of actually assisting because you have made other agreements to mitigate your liability is in danger of looking like a trap for NEW who you are quite understandably aggrieved with. Knowing NEW as you do, did you not consider the possibility that this cancellation would enrage them and they, thinking that activating the treaty before the cancellation period was up would be bad for BFF, would activate it resulting in a situation where they get there teeth smashed in and you guys honour your commitment in legalese only. Of course NEW are completely mental so no one really knows how these situations may pan out. It would have been much less ugly in my view just to void the treaty and as far as these predicaments go, this situation strikes me as one where this approach would be quite justifiable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1357873844' post='3074413'] This guy is a senior member of BFF, and led FEAR at several points. He knows NEW better than most people do. I don't think he was saying that they didn't $%&@ up at all. He was merely pointing out that they deserved better treatment than what they got. And an outright cancellation would of been a lot better than these termed war proposals. [/quote] His post leads me to wonder whether he was paying attention at all during the situation. NEW made it very clear that they were going in, that they would be activating their treaty, and that they would be expecting BFF to follow them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Good luck BFF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1357873844' post='3074413'] This guy is a senior member of BFF, and led FEAR at several points. He knows NEW better than most people do. I don't think he was saying that they didn't $%&@ up at all. He was merely pointing out that they deserved better treatment than what they got. And an outright cancellation would of been a lot better than these termed war proposals. [/quote] These "termed war proposals" were essentially for the benefit of everyone's mutual allies so it wouldn't escalate (namely CnG as they were stuck in the middle if it exploded). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandelsand Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Less war = lame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K1L1O Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1357873285' post='3074403'] Wondering if the "honourable" grace period by BFF would have been offerred had there been no deal. I think a point some people are making is the grace period has nothing to do with honour and morals as implied in op and praises thereafter. Just a pr claim and we know now, a bad one. [/quote] Indeed it was 'deal' behind that honourable grace period, i won't spit it here coz vibi told me. But surely i knew what's the deal. Once again world will seek what is true friend i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longnameislonger Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='trimm' timestamp='1357873025' post='3074400'] And yet they aren't avoiding either. I think it's been made pretty clear that if NEW goes off the deep end in the next week, BFF intends to defend them, but not to the point of keeping a treaty past that seven days when their treaty party went and took a dump in Mother Maggie's shoes with said treaty. BFF got handed a %&@! situation by an MADP ally, and they are doing their level headed best to both extracate themselves from that treaty and honor the spirit of it, which is more than most on Bob would do in the same circumstances. If BFF had flat out dropped NEW and left them to the NPO then darn near everyone on the OWF would have condemned them for it no matter how just the decision was.[/quote] I guess the big dramatic show about how they are honoring their treaties doesn't seem so bad on the surface, but it juxtaposes pretty weirdly with how they were talking last night. I was surprised to hear how boldly they offered to let the whole world run over NEW. I was even more surprised by how boldly they claimed to be model allies in this OP. Avoiding the OWF flak sure is important, though! [quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1357872979' post='3074399'] BFF has clearly stated that not only will they defend their idiot ally and take the bruises for it, that they will follow the mutual aggression portion as well, if so needed. I do not see any gray area in the text. [/quote] Ah hah, but that's how they get you! [quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1357872527' post='3074390'] I actually don't think we avoided both. We accepted both. You're close though, so you get a gold star for trying. Normally I give out lollipops but I know you're not allowed to have hard candy. Run along now. [/quote] You [i]tried [/i]to avoid both. And I'm not leaving until I get candy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster83 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) [quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1357874055' post='3074419'] These "termed war proposals" were essentially for the benefit of everyone's mutual allies so it wouldn't escalate (namely CnG as they were stuck in the middle if it exploded). [/quote] For the benefit of everyone bar NEW, who they are supposedly assisting? Yeah because that makes sense. They completely sold out their ally. [img]http://i.imgur.com/Lcl2Yh.png[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/GCgyEh.png[/img] Are you seriously telling me NEW wouldn't of been better off with BFF just cancelling all together if they felt so hard done by? PS: Nice artwork. Edited January 11, 2013 by Robster83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1357873940' post='3074415'] I tend to just say it how it is, they acted recklessly with want and abandonment for your interests, they deserve nothing from you. In my view posting a cancellation thread saying you will honour cancellation period with no intention of actually assisting because you have made other agreements to mitigate your liability is in danger of looking like a trap for NEW who you are quite understandably aggrieved with. Knowing NEW as you do, did you not consider the possibility that this cancellation would enrage them and they, thinking that activating the treaty before the cancellation period was up would be bad for BFF, would activate it resulting in a situation where they get there teeth smashed in and you guys honour your commitment in legalese only. Of course NEW are completely mental so no one really knows how these situations may pan out. It would have been much less ugly in my view just to void the treaty and as far as these predicaments go, this situation strikes me as one where this approach would be quite justifiable. [/quote] No intention of actually assisting? You realize these "terms" were put in place to help out YOUR allies mostly, right? And that even without them, BFF would have gone in? Keep on trying to appear all "blunt", but you're just being obtuse and pushing an obvious agenda to discredit BFF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1357874366' post='3074424'] For the benefit of everyone bar NEW, who they are supposedly assisting? Yeah because that makes sense. [/quote] NEW was going to get help from BFF as long as the treaty grace period was in place. How does that not make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='thedon125' timestamp='1357873152' post='3074401'] snip [/quote] The International, you now had real challenge for being the worst ally ever. [OOC]Reading this thread I realized something that I never payed attention before, people is taking this game too serious and using tools who are not designed for that, like Facebook and phone calls, take easy gentlemen, this is just a game, isn't CN forum, offsite forums and MIRC enough for you?[/OOC] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster83 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) [quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1357874566' post='3074427'] NEW was going to get help from BFF as long as the treaty grace period was in place. How does that not make sense? [/quote] [color=#000000][font=Arial]BFF would enter.... NPO and NSO would counter BFF...[/font][/color]However [color=#000000][font=Arial]BFF would be fighting a non nuclear war with NPO/NSO for a set amount of time. Then they would get white peace, and get aid from allies.[/font][/color] What does NEW get in return? They get dogpiled by everyone and their mothers. Edited January 11, 2013 by Robster83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 NEW gets what their treaty entails, helps during the grace period. If they wanted full BFF support for a war they shouldn't have broken the treaty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1357874777' post='3074431'] [color=#000000][font=Arial]BFF would enter.... NPO and NSO would counter BFF...[/font][/color]However [color=#000000][font=Arial]BFF would be fighting a non nuclear war with NPO/NSO for a set amount of time. Then they would get white peace, and get aid from allies.[/font][/color] What does NEW get in return? They get dogpiled by everyone and their mothers. [/quote] That was one of many proposals tossed around about how to best figure out how to keep the war from escalating past just BFF. BFF, Int, NPO, and others had to think about more than just their allies involved (or soon to be involved) in the conflict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longnameislonger Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1357874566' post='3074427'] NEW was going to get help from BFF as long as the treaty grace period was in place. How does that not make sense? [/quote] Did one of their gov members just resign publicly after posting about how BFF totally screwed their ally? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster83 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1357874869' post='3074433'] NEW gets what their treaty entails, helps during the grace period. If they wanted full BFF support for a war they shouldn't have broken the treaty. [/quote] So you recognise that BFF are in effect making the situation worse for NEW... and still don't see it as an orchestrated trap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='longnameislonger' timestamp='1357874971' post='3074437'] Did one of their gov members just resign publicly after posting about how BFF totally screwed their ally? [/quote] He resigned publicly without knowing full details of what went on. In respect to BFF I'll leave them to correct him if they want, but we have the logs that show NEW was doing this deliberately and were planning on calling in all their allies. [quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1357874978' post='3074438'] So you recognise that BFF are in effect making the situation worse for NEW... and still don't see it as an orchestrated trap? [/quote] How is that making the situation worse for NEW? NEW doesn't have to attack anyone, if they do so however they will be ripped apart regardless of BFF being there or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1357873416' post='3074407'] I dont know what my word is worth you or others, but there was never any question about honoring the 7 day period from anything I saw, from 3:30 AM EST yesterday, throughout the rest of the day and well into the night. [/quote] Will take your word Goldie. Just that the op would look alot less stellar with more transperancy. Yes Earnesto, one option is indeed more favourable, but your original post kind of referred to the less favourable option as your choice of path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longnameislonger Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1357875122' post='3074440'] He resigned publicly without knowing full details of what went on. In respect to BFF I'll leave them to correct him if they want, but we have the logs that show NEW was doing this deliberately and were planning on calling in all their allies.[/quote] Him having those logs points to his presence in the right discussions. Perhaps he fabricated them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCRABT Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1357874410' post='3074426'] No intention of actually assisting? You realize these "terms" were put in place to help out YOUR allies mostly, right? And that even without them, BFF would have gone in? Keep on trying to appear all "blunt", but you're just being obtuse and pushing an obvious agenda to discredit BFF. [/quote] Well they would be defending but not assisting them to win the war, so I think it's a fair statement. The best thing that could have happened to help both BFF and my allies would have been for BFF to cancel on NEW. Our allies agreeing to absorb BFF and NEW even in a limited capacity so BFF could save face, I think shows the lengths they were willing to go to in order to contain this rather than the other way around. All BFF had to do was drop NEW who recklessly broke and voided their treaty, but that was to much for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkEra97 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='longnameislonger' timestamp='1357875409' post='3074446'] Him having those logs points to his presence in the right discussions. Perhaps he fabricated them! [/quote] He was present and said nothing. Tough luck if he didn't get the outcome he wanted, he chose to throw Chax under the bus instead of actually discuss this with his alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster83 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1357875122' post='3074440'] He resigned publicly without knowing full details of what went on. In respect to BFF I'll leave them to correct him if they want, but we have the logs that show NEW was doing this deliberately and were planning on calling in all their allies. How is that making the situation worse for NEW? NEW doesn't have to attack anyone, if they do so however they will be ripped apart regardless of BFF being there or not. [/quote] I was under the impression the likes of NG would only get involved if BFF enterred. Therefore making the situation worse. Correct me if I am wrong. I still don't see how you can justify the whole termed war idea. BFF should of either committed themselves to NEW fully, or told NEW to $%&@ off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkEra97 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1357875610' post='3074452'] I was under the impression the likes of NG would only get involved if BFF enterred. Therefore making the situation worse. Correct me if I am wrong. I still don't see how you can justify the whole termed war idea. BFF should of either committed themselves to NEW fully, or told NEW to $%&@ off. [/quote] And if they did, we wouldn't see you in here !@#$%*ing anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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