A Statement from BFF

[Bob Ilyani]

[quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1357871654' post='3074371']
I am still confused by what you are saying. What was the need to propose the termed war if you felt let down by NEW? Why not just publicly say that you consider the treaty void. As I said, to me it seems like a cheap attempt to save face. It was a !@#$% move.
[/quote]
What are you proposing they do? Sit back and let a treaty partner essentially use them as a bargaining chip against their will? Brehon said something about rocks and hard places earlier, and he's absolutely right. Regardless of what BFF did here, they were going to get flak for it. In fact, it's likely that people like you would be preaching against the treaty right now if they had chosen to go in. Such is life, I suppose.

Best of luck to BFF. This is a stupid affair, and regardless of the background of this decisions, it's good to see you're making one and sticking with it.

[howlin mad]

Huge respect to BFF for honouring an alliance that didn't honour them. It shows true character.
I loved the way the op was written too. It's nice to know I'm not the only one who has killed several hookers so far this week.

[Goldie]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1357871998' post='3074379']
Yes, this going global is in our hands. And I personally at present see no reason for it to expand out and start causing unnecessary damage to allies on both sides of the conflict who honestly have no desire to burn or be burned fighting over Kaskus. That said NEW has a price to pay. I would have much preferred BFF to have not made this thread because now you are in the position of for the next 7 days NEW can go off and do something completely off the reserve and then BFF will be dragged with them.
[/quote]

And they are standing up and saying that if NEW goes off and does something, that they have made peace with being there for them. Rather than continue the silly back-and-forth about this, let's all remember the times we had allies who went off the deep end and the !@#$ positions it left us in, and realize that this is BFF's time, and to continue to attack them for their stance is uncalled for.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1357871998' post='3074379']
Yes, this going global is in our hands. And I personally at present see no reason for it to expand out and start causing unnecessary damage to allies on both sides of the conflict who honestly have no desire to burn or be burned fighting over Kaskus. That said NEW has a price to pay. I would have much preferred BFF to have not made this thread because now you are in the position of for the next 7 days NEW can go off and do something completely off the reserve and then BFF will be dragged with them.
[/quote]

I think everyone on both sides agree NEW needs to get rolled. This was BFF's stance regardless of the thread being made or not, doesn't change anything except giving the OWF something to finally talk about. They know what they got into.

[Robster83]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1357872132' post='3074381']
What are you proposing they do? Sit back and let a treaty partner essentially use them as a bargaining chip against their will? Brehon said something about rocks and hard places earlier, and he's absolutely right. Regardless of what BFF did here, they were going to get flak for it. In fact, it's likely that people like you would be preaching against the treaty right now if they had chosen to go in. Such is life, I suppose.

Best of luck to BFF. This is a stupid affair, and regardless of the background of this decisions, it's good to see you're making one and sticking with it.
[/quote]

My point is that an alliance should commit -- and do so fully. Either way. It's not the actions and the reasoning behind those actions that I find hilarious. It's the way they did it. Why sugar coat it with all the proposed clauses or whatever to keep it contained, to make it seem like you are supporting your ally, when you are not?

[MCRABT]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1357871685' post='3074372']
We both know this turning global was in yours and NPO's hands, so you complaining seems kind of silly.



Completely contradictory. If it was self-preservation, they would have skipped step 3 as TORN did. They don't need to save face at all here, NEW was obviously retarded and deserved nothing. Committing to taking on a much larger opponent for even a short term is more honorable than most other alliances would have done and more than NEW deserves.
[/quote]

Yes they negotiated a limited war to because that would help NEW, that makes perfect sense. I actually agree that NEW deserved nothing, not even the cancellation period. They deserved to be left to deal with the consequences of their own stupidity, like I said BFF trying to manufacture a moral victory was idiotic. My problem is not that they wronged NEW who are terrible but rather that BFF struck a deal so they could claim they would still honour their obligations which I think in most peoples minds was silly and unnecessary in the circumstances.

[Sniper Joe]

[quote name='longnameislonger' timestamp='1357870853' post='3074355']
This was beautiful to read. We'll be sure to take BFF seriously from now on.
[/quote]

Oh get out, anyone who had to deal with this or any other situation like this can tell you how hectic !@#$ gets. You're just being intentionally obtuse at this point.

[Stewie]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1357872202' post='3074383']


And they are standing up and saying that if NEW goes off and does something, that they have made peace with being there for them. Rather than continue the silly back-and-forth about this, let's all remember the times we had allies who went off the deep end and the !@#$ positions it left us in, and realize that this is BFF's time, and to continue to attack them for their stance is uncalled for.
[/quote]

Indeed. We've been one such alliance in the past.

[longnameislonger]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1357871721' post='3074373']
I'm sure each person here puffing their chest and/or crapping on NEW/BFF for this has found themselves in the situation of being the alliance that ends up putting their ally in a bad place or has had an ally put you in a ridiculous situation that you didn't want to be in (in some alliance's cases having that ally be NEW itself!), and I absolutely feel that many alliances in CN don't have the courage to stare that situation in the face and still be there for their ally like we all know BFF will be.

BFF, you know where we stand, and best of luck to you guys cleaning this up.
[/quote]

I get that you guys are besties, but I'm confused by posts like this. At the end of the day in a situation like this you can either defend your idiot ally and take the bruises for it, or drop your idiot ally and take the boos for it. Trying to avoid both seems like the least honorable option of all. Doesn't it?

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

Thickness my love, I apologize for the double post. Prease forgive me.

[quote name='K1L1On1Mr4' timestamp='1357870937' post='3074358']
Oh really we didn't do anything for BFF? Before the merger, it was NEW as shield for those alliances. Never once we intervened their FA, even tough some decisions of them we didn't like, still we kept our dislike hidden. We're keep supporting them no matter what. But that was the past, let's start brighter tomorrow with the glows of nukes.

As the initial war started between KasKus-NSO, we're actually wanted to drop all our treaties, but we hold back until last minute to see which are truly friends. Still BFF friends for me personally

Good luck for both of us, no need to e-lawyering since it needs to be done. Let's watch what future lies on next few days
[/quote]

This, this, 100 percent this. Like I said in the OP, we will never forget what NEW did for us. Politically our ties are dead, but based on the conversations coekrix and I had last night, I believe the love is as strong as ever.

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1357870787' post='3074352']
We're just butthurt we don't get a war yet


Bit of Blue Balls over here!
[/quote]

This is the biggest offense in this whole thread. Stewie, I'm sorry. I got you all frisky and then I put you outside. That's a crime that should be outlawed by international law, and I would gladly accept the death penalty for my offense.

[quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1357871273' post='3074362']
That's cool it would have been easier if you had just said $%&@ NEW they are ridiculous, they $%&@ed us over so we're !@#$@#$ them back, moral claims in CN are terrible.
[/quote]

Come on man, let's cut the party-line !@#$%^&* and be honest. If we had flatout cancelled on NEW for this and let them take any punishment thrown there way, would you [i]really [/i]be applauding us? Not [i]you [/i]in particular, I mean "you" as in the detractors. You all know full-well the whole thread would be "OMG BFF r !@#$%*^ they cut and run on NEW lol they sucks

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1357871541' post='3074367']
No, it's a case of 150 million in aid was dumped from a 3rd party to someone engaged in war with one of our MD level allies. For us, this war is not senseless. We are well within our right to declare war on NEW as a case of an aggressive act performed against our ally.
[/quote]

And I wouldn't blame NG for a split-damned-second if they did. I made that much clear to you last night.

[quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1357871654' post='3074371']
I don't hate BFF... and as for UPN; hey, at least we are able to cut the crap out and be straightforward. ( I don't think you are in a position to question our loyalty either. )

I am still confused by what you are saying. What was the need to propose the termed war if you felt let down by NEW? Why not just publicly say that you consider the treaty void. As I said, to me it seems like a cheap attempt to save face. It was a !@#$% move.
[/quote]

Sorta think we did say we consider the treaty void but we're still honoring it because silly geese like you would have literally !@#$ yourselves if we flatout cancelled on NEW and let them take punishment alone.


I think it's really easy for those on the outside to poke and point at BFF for this, but I cannot stress strongly enough how difficult a decision this was for me personally to make. The International has logs of my blowup, Brehon has them (I think), Comrade Craig does, and most of our close allies do. I was livid at the situation and frustrated by my hand being forced like this. I was moreso mad at NEW for putting me in a position where we had no other real choice than by them not talking to us first. I still considered NEW our closest ally until this thing happened. Despite it all, despite the repeated calls from allies and acquaintances alike since the merger to downgrade or cancel on NEW, some of those voices from within BFF herself, we have upheld the treaty because of our long history of honor and respect. Even the strongest back breaks eventually, though, and this is no different. This was simply the final straw, but it made this decision absolutely none percent easier for us. The vote on our path tonight passed with 1 vote, the alternative being "go full-retard and let this !@#$ blow up". But tell me, would DR have been thrilled with that? Would they be thrilled with putting their friends in NPO in an awkward place, along with their allies in CnG?

You're welcome. Beat up on us some more, that's cool, anything to distract you from your own faults and issues.



Edit:


[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1357871998' post='3074379']
Yes, this going global is in our hands. And I personally at present see no reason for it to expand out and start causing unnecessary damage to allies on both sides of the conflict who honestly have no desire to burn or be burned fighting over Kaskus. That said NEW has a price to pay. I would have much preferred BFF to have not made this thread because now you are in the position of for the next 7 days NEW can go off and do something completely off the reserve and then BFF will be dragged with them.
[/quote]

Stewie, you and I are saying the same thing here with a slightly different accent. We made this thread to clarify our stance, to ease tensions between spheres, and to make it extremely clear that [i]if [/i]NEW goes off the deep end, we're gonna be right there with them. And if they get hit preemptively, well, they'd better just preempt BFF too. We'll be in it with NEW just like they've done for us.

[quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1357872424' post='3074385']
My point is that an alliance should commit -- and do so fully. Either way. It's not the actions and the reasoning behind those actions that I find hilarious. It's the way they did it. Why sugar coat it with all the proposed clauses or whatever to keep it contained, to make it seem like you are supporting your ally, when you are not?
[/quote]

You know what, Robster? We fight a lot, but I have respect for you. I'll come completely clean with you on this one, our main reason for not wanting this war to explode. And honestly, you can ask anybody we chatted with during this crisis and they can provide logs of this fact. The bottom line is, letting this war go global is letting UnknownSmurf get more time in the spotlight than he deserves. I think that's something we can all agree on.

[quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1357872458' post='3074386']
Yes they negotiated a limited war to because that would help NEW, that makes perfect sense. I actually agree that NEW deserved nothing, not even the cancellation period. They deserved to be left to deal with the consequences of their own stupidity, like I said BFF trying to manufacture a moral victory was idiotic. My problem is not that they wronged NEW who are terrible but rather that BFF struck a deal so they could claim they would still honour their obligations which I think in most peoples minds was silly and unnecessary in the circumstances.
[/quote]

Damned if we do, damned if we don't. It was a !@#$%* situation that was thrown into our laps, and there was seriously no perfect way out of it. We roll into a global war, we allow NEW to use us as a pawn and pull our other allies into a meatgrinder. We cancel on NEW, we go against everything BFF stands for. This has nothing to do with the odds stacked against us or NEW. I think we've proven in the past that we're not afraid of falling under a curbstomp for our allies. In fact, 24 hours ago I legitimately expected this to be an anti-BFF/NEW curbstomp and I was rallying the troops to keep their spirits up in the event of an utter defeat. So please, show BFF and myself a little bit more respect and stop insulting our resolve here. I don't doubt your friends in TORN would have defended NEW, I don't doubt IRON will defend their allies if they're attacked, so please lay off of us and the cowardly thing. You and I both know it isn't true.

Besides, if this war [i]had [/i]blown up right now, your coalition would be in a weaker position to initiate MKarma or whatever. As it stands now, CnG is swinging in with DH if you attack us. Play your cards right and you may be able to continue stacking cards in your favor.

[quote name='longnameislonger' timestamp='1357872516' post='3074389']
I get that you guys are besties, but I'm confused by posts like this. At the end of the day in a situation like this you can either defend your idiot ally and take the bruises for it, or drop your idiot ally and take the boos for it. Trying to avoid both seems like the least honorable option of all. Doesn't it?
[/quote]

I actually don't think we avoided both. We accepted both. You're close though, so you get a gold star for trying. Normally I give out lollipops but I know you're not allowed to have hard candy. Run along now.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Ernesto Che Guevara

[iamthey]

What a trainwreck- good luck to everyone.

Edited January 11, 2013 by iamthey

[Robster83]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1357872527' post='3074390']
Sorta think we did say we consider the treaty void but we're still honoring it because silly geese like you would have literally !@#$ yourselves if we flatout cancelled on NEW and let them take punishment alone.
[/quote]

Do I have to repeat myself? I don't disagree with your reasoning to cancel the treaty. Hell I don't know what you were thinking in the first place signing an MDAP with anyone -- let alone NEW. My point is that you should of either A) Backed them, and committed yourself to doing that, without none of those stupid clauses: i.e a non nuclear war for a set amount of days or B) Flat out cancel on them and consider the treaty void.

You didn't do either. You didn't commit to them... and you didn't cancel. You wanted to be able to claim that you followed through on the treaty. It really is that simple. There was no need for the crap and the whole façade, Chax.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1357872458' post='3074386']
Yes they negotiated a limited war to because that would help NEW, that makes perfect sense. I actually agree that NEW deserved nothing, not even the cancellation period. They deserved to be left to deal with the consequences of their own stupidity, like I said BFF trying to manufacture a moral victory was idiotic. My problem is not that they wronged NEW who are terrible but rather that BFF struck a deal so they could claim they would still honour their obligations which I think in most peoples minds was silly and unnecessary in the circumstances.
[/quote]

All BFF owes NEW is the grace period, in which they would have been fighting on their own. And they are giving them that.

Also, get off your high horse. This "deal" was in place to protect everyone from its stupid, including your own allies. BFF would likely have still gone in without it but it was the best way to guarantee it would have remained contained for others (hi cng). I can't believe you're actually !@#$%*ing about something that helps your side despite it being an addendum to a commitment that would have been fulfilled regardless (and was genuine).

[Goldie]

[quote name='longnameislonger' timestamp='1357872516' post='3074389']
I get that you guys are besties, but I'm confused by posts like this. At the end of the day in a situation like this you can either defend your idiot ally and take the bruises for it, or drop your idiot ally and take the boos for it. Trying to avoid both seems like the least honorable option of all. Doesn't it?
[/quote]

BFF has clearly stated that not only will they defend their idiot ally and take the bruises for it, that they will follow the mutual aggression portion as well, if so needed. I do not see any gray area in the text.

[trimm]

[quote name='longnameislonger' timestamp='1357872516' post='3074389']
I get that you guys are besties, but I'm confused by posts like this. At the end of the day in a situation like this you can either defend your idiot ally and take the bruises for it, or drop your idiot ally and take the boos for it. Trying to avoid both seems like the least honorable option of all. Doesn't it?
[/quote]

And yet they aren't avoiding either. I think it's been made pretty clear that if NEW goes off the deep end in the next week, BFF intends to defend them, but not to the point of keeping a treaty past that seven days when their treaty party went and took a dump in Mother Maggie's shoes with said treaty.

BFF got handed a %&@! situation by an MADP ally, and they are doing their level headed best to both extracate themselves from that treaty and honor the spirit of it, which is more than most on Bob would do in the same circumstances. If BFF had flat out dropped NEW and left them to the NPO then darn near everyone on the OWF would have condemned them for it no matter how just the decision was.

[thedon125]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]I am airing this because I am saddened by the treatment of our long-time ally, NEW. Gov of BFF, you cannot kick an ally to the curb and seriously expect good PR from the OWF, though I know that was your plan.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]As Stewie, MCRABBIT, and assorted other members of the OWF are alluding to, yes, within hours of this nonsense starting, certain gov members were on the phone with Brehon and assorted others trying to fix the war, to ensure BFF would walk out unscathed. If NEW were to have kicked off the war, BFF would have followed right after. NPO and NSO would counter BFF, and the expansion would end there. BFF would fight non-nuclear combat with NPO/NSO until our treaty obligation ended, then white peace would begin. ODN and INT would aidbomb us, while half of Bob dogpiled on NEW. I believe these diagrams show the picture well enough (I do not take credit for these, someone else made them, they may step forward if they want to take credit).[/size][/font][/color]
[url="http://imgur.com/a/6GK72"][color=#1155cc][font=Arial][size=4][u]http://imgur.com/a/6GK72[/u][/size][/font][/color][/url]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]]Much of the nonsense was kicked off when we queried vibi from NEW, to get the story. Unfortunately, English is not vibi’s strong point, so out of the gate, we made some rather dumb assumptions “NEW is just trying to kick off a huge war, NEW is planning to drag us down with them, NEW has been conspiring against us all along!!!!”[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]Then, coekrix came online later that evening, and lo and behold, none of that was really true (coekrix has far better English skills, and so it is much easier to figure out what he is saying). The aidbomb was a spur of the moment decision on NEW’s part, and yes, they did expect to get countered by someone. NEW likes their war, what can I say. However, they would not have pulled us in to burn unless we were on-board. They actually asked us (FEAR/BFF) to stay out during NEW-DF, and I have no doubts that they would have done the same here. NEW is not, and has never been manipulative, and to treat them as we did is despicable.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]<coekrix[NEW]> it's not only bout NEW[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]<coekrix[NEW]> but BFF as well[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]<coekrix[NEW]> we will end this war[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]<coekrix[NEW]> NEW has to help kaskus[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]<coekrix[NEW]> but NEW doesn't wanna BFF got crushed too[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]<coekrix[NEW]> we have to think bout you[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]<coekrix[NEW]> coz this isn't bout NEW self[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]<coekrix[NEW]> it's started because third party, which is K[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]<coekrix[NEW]> if this is only bout NEW of BFF, we won't think twice [/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]Clearly, NEW is a bunch of puppetmasters.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]NEW, if you still choose to go in, know that your former BFF’s have alerted all the wolves and baited a trap just for you. You’ll be in for a tough fight, though I suppose that’s what ya’ll enjoy.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]Chax, please remove my name from the OP of this conversation. You know as well as I do that I wanted to give NEW a proper send-off, not this garbage.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]NEW, in my opinion, you have always been steadfast allies. Sure you have a thirst for war, but you have always stood by us. If we ever needed your help, you were always among the first to respond, and we have truly let you guys down. Besides, you made Bob interesting for us, and it is unfortunate to see this tie cut in this manner. You deserved us to go in guns blazing, even if we still canceled after 7 days. None of this “fixed war” nonsense. Even cutting the treaty and saying “you violated the spirit of the treaty, we will not protect you” would have been more courteous.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]BFF has clearly abandoned the values that made the bloc great, and today is a sad day in CN for me.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]--[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]TheDon125[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]-Former Trium of FEAR[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]-Former dMoFA of Europa[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4]-Former Trium of BFF[/size][/font][/color]

Edited January 11, 2013 by thedon125

[Goldie]

[quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1357872458' post='3074386']
Yes they negotiated a limited war to because that would help NEW, that makes perfect sense. I actually agree that NEW deserved nothing, not even the cancellation period. They deserved to be left to deal with the consequences of their own stupidity, like I said BFF trying to manufacture a moral victory was idiotic. My problem is not that they wronged NEW who are terrible but rather that BFF struck a deal so they could claim they would still honour their obligations which I think in most peoples minds was silly and unnecessary in the circumstances.
[/quote]

I do not believe that is what WC was saying.

BFF, NPO, (and I believe Int) negotiated this to ensure that their allies and friends who would have become conflicted because of a larger war wouldn't have to be, and to save a lot of needless bloodshed. You can draw a lot of conclusions from a lot of straws in this situation, but usually in life the most rational reasoning is the correct one.

[shahenshah]

Wondering if the "honourable" grace period by BFF would have been offerred had there been no deal. I think a point some people are making is the grace period has nothing to do with honour and morals as implied in op and praises thereafter. Just a pr claim and we know now, a bad one.

I dont see how few are comparing this to VE situation. First of all, GOD did not instigate the conflict like NEW did. Second of all, VE went in and fought it out unlike the deal here. So in no way bff has the balls the size of VE.

Edited January 11, 2013 by shahenshah

[Duke Nukem]

If the treaty was strained to begin with and then NEW embarked in aggressive actions then this is a very reasonable stance, and honorable at that. Good on you BFF.

[Robster83]

[quote name='thedon125' timestamp='1357873152' post='3074401']
[color=#000000][font=Arial]I am airing this because I am saddened by the treatment of our long-time ally, NEW. Gov of BFF, you cannot kick an ally to the curb and seriously expect good PR from the OWF, though I know that was your plan.[/background][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial]As Stewie, MCRABBIT, and assorted other members of the OWF are alluding to, yes, within hours of this nonsense starting, certain gov members were on the phone with Brehon and assorted others trying to fix the war, to ensure BFF would walk out unscathed. If NEW were to have kicked off the war, BFF would have followed right after. NPO and NSO would counter BFF, and the expansion would end there. BFF would fight non-nuclear combat with NPO/NSO until our treaty obligation ended, then white peace would begin. ODN and INT would aidbomb us, while half of Bob dogpiled on NEW. I believe these diagrams show the picture well enough (I do not take credit for these, someone else made them, they may step forward if they want to take credit).[/font][/color]
[url="http://imgur.com/a/6GK72"][color=#1155cc][font=Arial][u]http://imgur.com/a/6GK72[/u][/font][/color][/url]

[color=#000000][font=Arial]Much of the nonsense was kicked off when we queried vibi from NEW, to get the story. Unfortunately, English is not vibi’s strong point, so out of the gate, we made some rather dumb assumptions “NEW is just trying to kick off a huge war, NEW is planning to drag us down with them, NEW has been conspiring against us all along!!!!”[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial]Then, coekrix came online later that evening, and lo and behold, none of that was really true (coekrix has far better English skills, and so it is much easier to figure out what he is saying). The aidbomb was a spur of the moment decision on NEW’s part, and yes, they did expect to get countered by someone. NEW likes their war, what can I say. However, they would not have pulled us in to burn unless we were on-board. They actually asked us (FEAR/BFF) to stay out during NEW-DF, and I have no doubts that they would have done the same here. NEW is not, and has never been manipulative, and to treat them as we did is despicable[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][background=transparent]<coekrix[NEW]> it's not only bout NEW[/background][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][background=transparent]<coekrix[NEW]> but BFF as well[/background][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][background=transparent]<coekrix[NEW]> we will end this war[/background][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][background=transparent]<coekrix[NEW]> NEW has to help kaskus[/background][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][background=transparent]<coekrix[NEW]> but NEW doesn't wanna BFF got crushed too[/background][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][background=transparent]<coekrix[NEW]> we have to think bout you[/background][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][background=transparent]<coekrix[NEW]> coz this isn't bout NEW self[/background][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][background=transparent]<coekrix[NEW]> it's started because third party, which is K[/background][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][background=transparent]<coekrix[NEW]> if this is only bout NEW of BFF, we won't think twice [/background][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial]Clearly, NEW is a bunch of puppetmasters.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial]NEW, if you still choose to go in, know that your former BFF’s have alerted all the wolves and baited a trap just for you. You’ll be in for a tough fight, though I suppose that’s what ya’ll enjoy.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial]Chax, please remove my name from the OP of this conversation. You know as well as I do that I wanted to give NEW a proper send-off, not this garbage.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial]NEW, in my opinion, you have always been steadfast allies. Sure you have a thirst for war, but you have always stood by us. If we ever needed your help, you were always among the first to respond, and we have truly let you guys down. Besides, you made Bob interesting for us, and it is unfortunate to see this tie cut in this manner. You deserved us to go in guns blazing, even if we still canceled after 7 days. None of this “fixed war” nonsense. Even cutting the treaty and saying “you violated the spirit of the treaty, we will not protect you” would have been more courteous.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial]BFF has clearly abandoned the values that made the bloc great, and today is a sad day in CN for me.[/font][/color]
[/quote]

Thanks for confirming what I suspected.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Robster83

[Goldie]

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1357873285' post='3074403']
Wondering if the "honourable" grace period by BFF would have been offerred without the deal.
[/quote]

I don't know what my word is worth to you or others, but there was never any question about honoring the 7 day period from anything I saw, from 3:30 AM EST yesterday, throughout the rest of the day and well into the night.

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1357873285' post='3074403']
Wondering if the "honourable" grace period by BFF would have been offerred without the deal.
[/quote]

Go ahead and ask around. You'll find that we were going to honor it deal or no deal, and that has been our stance all along. One option was clearly more favorable, but nonetheless we stood ready for either.


[quote name='thedon125' timestamp='1357873152' post='3074401']
[font="Arial"][color="#000000"]words[/color][/font]
[/quote]

Don, you were in on the discussions as much as any of us and made no effort to change the outcome of this. Flee the sinking ship like a rat scurrying from death, you've shown your true colors and that's your choice. I expected better of you, but I guess that was misguided. Your name shall remain in the OP because you were a part of the entire situation and made no effort to change this outcome.

Finally, I do appreciate the selective IRC quotes there. You could post the whole story if you wanted, but that wouldn't help your case so I don't blame you.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Ernesto Che Guevara

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='thedon125' timestamp='1357873152' post='3074401']
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]I am airing this because I am saddened by the treatment of our long-time ally, NEW. Gov of BFF, you cannot kick an ally to the curb and seriously expect good PR from the OWF, though I know that was your plan.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]As Stewie, MCRABBIT, and assorted other members of the OWF are alluding to, yes, within hours of this nonsense starting, certain gov members were on the phone with Brehon and assorted others trying to fix the war, to ensure BFF would walk out unscathed. If NEW were to have kicked off the war, BFF would have followed right after. NPO and NSO would counter BFF, and the expansion would end there. BFF would fight non-nuclear combat with NPO/NSO until our treaty obligation ended, then white peace would begin. ODN and INT would aidbomb us, while half of Bob dogpiled on NEW. I believe these diagrams show the picture well enough (I do not take credit for these, someone else made them, they may step forward if they want to take credit).[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[url="http://imgur.com/a/6GK72"][color=#1155cc][font=Arial][size=4][u][background=transparent]http://imgur.com/a/6GK72[/background][/u][/size][/font][/color][/url]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]Much of the nonsense was kicked off when we queried vibi from NEW, to get the story. Unfortunately, English is not vibi’s strong point, so out of the gate, we made some rather dumb assumptions “NEW is just trying to kick off a huge war, NEW is planning to drag us down with them, NEW has been conspiring against us all along!!!!”[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]Then, coekrix came online later that evening, and lo and behold, none of that was really true (coekrix has far better English skills, and so it is much easier to figure out what he is saying). The aidbomb was a spur of the moment decision on NEW’s part, and yes, they did expect to get countered by someone. NEW likes their war, what can I say. However, they would not have pulled us in to burn unless we were on-board. They actually asked us (FEAR/BFF) to stay out during NEW-DF, and I have no doubts that they would have done the same here. NEW is not, and has never been manipulative, and to treat them as we did is despicable.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]<coekrix[NEW]> it's not only bout NEW[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]<coekrix[NEW]> but BFF as well[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]<coekrix[NEW]> we will end this war[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]<coekrix[NEW]> NEW has to help kaskus[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]<coekrix[NEW]> but NEW doesn't wanna BFF got crushed too[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]<coekrix[NEW]> we have to think bout you[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]<coekrix[NEW]> coz this isn't bout NEW self[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]<coekrix[NEW]> it's started because third party, which is K[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]<coekrix[NEW]> if this is only bout NEW of BFF, we won't think twice [/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]Clearly, NEW is a bunch of puppetmasters.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]NEW, if you still choose to go in, know that your former BFF’s have alerted all the wolves and baited a trap just for you. You’ll be in for a tough fight, though I suppose that’s what ya’ll enjoy.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]Chax, please remove my name from the OP of this conversation. You know as well as I do that I wanted to give NEW a proper send-off, not this garbage.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]NEW, in my opinion, you have always been steadfast allies. Sure you have a thirst for war, but you have always stood by us. If we ever needed your help, you were always among the first to respond, and we have truly let you guys down. Besides, you made Bob interesting for us, and it is unfortunate to see this tie cut in this manner. You deserved us to go in guns blazing, even if we still canceled after 7 days. None of this “fixed war” nonsense. Even cutting the treaty and saying “you violated the spirit of the treaty, we will not protect you” would have been more courteous.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]BFF has clearly abandoned the values that made the bloc great, and today is a sad day in CN for me. [/background][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]--[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]TheDon125[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]-Former Trium of FEAR[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]-Former dMoFA of Europa[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=Arial][size=4][background=transparent]-Former Trium of BFF[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]

And now this guy is saying NEW are saints. The same NEW who were threatening on going rogue on VE just a week or 2 ago. The same NEW who claimed they would activate all their treaties. The same NEW who "claim" they would cancel treaties before starting a war, but instead aided an alliance to start one before doing so. You're naive and a sell-out, your word means nothing.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1357873285' post='3074403']
Wondering if the "honourable" grace period by BFF would have been offerred without the deal.
[/quote]

Despite all of us not wanting BFF to walk into even that, they were adamant.

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1357873285' post='3074403']
Wondering if the "honourable" grace period by BFF would have been offerred without the deal.
[/quote]

Wondering if you know how to read.