thedon125

Three-way ties are fun! Congrats to the victors, looking forward to being a pawn amidst this regime. :D

I suppose the next logical question to the prior thread on this topic, is asking if it is abusing the system to attack allied alliances to gain XP? Prior precedent clearly says yes, it is ok, so long as there is no other demand for the slots, but now the mechanics have changed...

There is this thread: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/109060-war-slot-filling/?hl=%2Bslot+%2Bfilling However, it seems conflicted. The OP has one statement of precedent, that intra-alliance attacks are never allowed, but attacking allies is fine so long as a war is not ongoing. Donnerjack, CN staff, on the other hand, says that we will be fine so long as there is no other demand for the war slots. Personally, I like Donnerjack's opinoin, but a look at the CN list of all wars will show you why.

Title says it all; tried two dogfights in CN:SE, shot down more of their fighters than they shot down both times, was not awarded XP. Could be intentional, given no damage was done to their nation.

Oh, I can absolutely see how that could be construed. Given that we were in BFF prior to breaking off, however, there's no way we would have known war was upon us until after FEAR formed, considering even Umbrella was caught off-guard. Sure, there were rumors, there had been rumors for the preceeding 6 months as well. :P

Deebo, of all the ex-BFF gov (that didn't go on to re-form Wolfpack or FEAR), you and MoSW are the two that I still have a great amount of respect for. Rather than telling the alliance "hey, we disbanded, go get absorbed by INT" (without consulting the alliance, might I add; I was still a member of BFF when that happened, and found out about it via the forum post), you two stuck around and attempted to get things fixed. Also, obligatory Chax is evil, for reason of mentioning my name in an OWF post...causing me to come back to this awful, awful place. edit: Oh, and Marx, our signing with TORN had nothing to do with the war; we just wanted some distance from BFF till things cooled down, and TORN was always a good ally to us in FEAR; it would have been difficult to sign with almost anyone else while still achieving that distance. It's almost a shame to see so many of GOONS so hostile toward FEAR, when we were allies not long ago; the people haven't changed, just the AA. Ah well, such is life under the treaty web.

Good to see, gentlemen, good to see. Also, cat. o/ MoSW o/ Deebo o/ Dan o/ BFF (Also, to everybody, keep in mind this isn't BFF 2.0, for despite what has been otherwise said on the OWF, BFF never folded.)

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1358834994' post='3083287'] Well I'm just upset because you told them I'd only last through one nuke and you know full-well it'd be two before I'm bankrupt. Jerk. [/quote]Haha, true. You know the OWF, hyperbole at its finest.

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1358833979' post='3083247'] Don't you have an alliance to stab in the back on the OWF? [/quote]Nah, FEAR is good, no need for stabbings. Besides, we're on opposite sides now, have to have the fun pokes at each other.

[quote name='coekrix' timestamp='1358831601' post='3083124']did DB4D and TORN leave NEW in the same exact condition? NO! come back to INT, lets enjoy the show, i wanna see your war capabilites, i have seen enough of your babling capabilites [/quote]Nah, his nation would be a waste of your money. One nuke and you'll send him to bill lock.

It was kept under wraps, because we hoped things could be salvaged, and the FEAR splinter would never have to happen. That's when the reform talks started, and much of the FEAR2 planning was put on hold. To announce to the alliance "make these reforms or we are leaving" would have felt like we were taking the alliance hostage.

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1358410282' post='3077928'] You posted on the BFF forums, and I quote, "Everybody off the AA. NEW is going to attack" [/quote]It's true, I was misinformed when I posted that too. edit: Chax, I have never put the blame squarely on you, I do not think anyone has. There is no conceivable way that only a single person could have generated this much fail in such a short span of time. Was my callout post a trigger? Perhaps, but I would not say it set off the entire chain of events. By the time I put up my callout post, FEAR had already begun creating their new forums and vibi's set of logs had already started circulating. In the grand scheme of things, my post really did not reveal much damaging information, and certainly nothing that wasn't already publicly leaking out via NG/IRON.

[quote name='Rotavele' timestamp='1358405113' post='3077906'] Where Europa is? [/quote]Well, considering FEAR now exists on its own, WolfPack is likely splintering too...I guess BFF is Europa2?

[quote name='KainIIIC' timestamp='1358401525' post='3077888'] bring Canik back; he's awesome. [/quote] I've tried.

That depends on what NEW did. Remember, prior to the split, we were expecting NEW to continue trying to hit NSO/NPO, thus allowing FEAR to assist. Chax's mention of NEW attacking BFF was misinformed, amusing he was so rapidly believed. Nobody who presently resides or has ever resided on the FEAR AA was involved in the decision to merge BFF into INT. When FEAR split, we were under the assumption that BFF would hold together. Clearly we were wrong. edit: I do agree, FEAR 2.0 will not be the same as the original. We will hold many of the original values, but the member base has seen a dramatic change from the days when Canik ran the show. However, I look forward to seeing what the future will bring.

Speaking as Vice Chancellor of FEAR 2.0, we would have never left BFF out to dry. I personally was sticking around in BFF until it "stabilized or sank". Unfortunately, the government of BFF decided to let it sink. HOWEVER, had BFF been attacked, FEAR would have been there to defend in any capacity we legally could.

shahenshah: FEAR and GOONS were actually on reasonably decent terms prior to the BFF merge.

[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1358320479' post='3077419'] It hasn't been 7 days, has it? It was still possible for everything to blow up. [/quote]Still is possible for everything to blow up, and from what I hear, it still might, but not in the way you are expecting.

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1358318192' post='3077409'] Not at all. He's right: if any of those who left BFF to re-form FEAR left out of dissatisfaction at the former's decision not to aid NEW, they should have gone straight into help NEW. That said, I don't know the specifics of why those people departed, and I don't really care (nor about just about anything in Cybernations). [/quote]There's been no need to help NEW...no wars at all.

[quote name='mythicknight' timestamp='1358301052' post='3077291'] This post has been niggling at me and I just realized why. Did that portion of the charter you tried to rewrite [i]as a trial began[/i] have anything to do with the articles related to trials/member removal & processes thereof? Just curious. [/quote]Para was only trying to fix the part that said a trial could only end with the expulsion or the total innocence of the accused.

Chax, we may not have always agreed, but you made this game interesting for sure. Toodles, cupcake.

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1358294100' post='3077191'] Show me where I disbanded the court and I'll say you're right. I did no such thing. [/quote] It is true, he did no such thing. In fact, he skipped out on his trial by claiming the court disbanded, when Boris, SniperJoe, and Minister of Silly Walks, his entire courtroom, were in BFF until the end. Boris skipped out barely 30 minutes before the disbandment went up, but even then, over half of Chax's jurors remained. [quote] When the vast majority of an alliance is so inactive they won't even sign in for military checkups, and about half of those active members (government members, I remind you) flee in turbulent waters, but not before castrating the alliance by suspending one of the top three government officials on false charges, can you really expect things to continue on? [/quote] Just because you had no faith in UCN does not mean BFF is the same. I find it laughable that you "disbanded" BFF after a quarter-hour pow-wow with your closest cabinet members, without once bringing the idea up to the alliance. I do not think, rather, I know we have not seen the last of BFF. [quote] Most of those bad leaders have gone on to form FEAR 2.0, chap. [/quote] None of those leaders ever had to disband their own alliance, let alone had to do it twice. [quote] But in all seriousness, the collapse of BFF can hardly be seen as my fault. Tell me where I had the power to prevent this, please. [/quote] So, you had absolutely no say in the decision to merge with INT, and it was in no way your idea to do so without consulting anyone outside of government (and not even the full remaining government at that)? I'll grant you that it was not likely ALL your fault, but take some credit where credit is due. [quote] I've given you plenty of screenshots, allowed an outsider to remotely access my computer, and lack an MO for faking logs. I've said time and time again that spacing in a Facebook message is hardly consistent. Regardless, that's in the past and my own alliance had suspended the trial for a lack of evidence to convict, thus innocence of the accused is the default. And it rather disgusts me that you would push for the public airing of said trial information before the alliance could work things out internally. Some ally you've been. [/quote] The trial was suspended because whoever wrote our charter decided it was brilliant to have only two outcomes to a trial: person stays, or person is exiled. The suspension was only intended to last until we fixed that part of the charter, at which point the trial would have resumed. We did that because, quite frankly, vibi's evidence collected at the time was more substantial than your own, and we did not want to see you receive the full boot. You allowed someone to screen share, but would not allow that someone to post any sort of photographic evidence; we have to take that someone at his word. On Vibi's side, we have photographic evidence of the screen share taking place. Guess what actually would hold up in court?

[quote name='Daimos' timestamp='1358264080' post='3076939'] Wow, what a snowball effect. Not sure it’s over yet. [/quote]It's not. Remember UCN? That might just happen...again.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1358243465' post='3076808'] One of the interesting things is that they chose to merge with The International instead of one of their beloved friends in DinoHouse. [/quote]Int was a much closer ally to BFF than Deinohouse. We had a thriving and ongoing member exchange program with INT at the time of merger, so for many, it was not much change at all.

[quote name='Crownguard' timestamp='1358240550' post='3076769'] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48H34ukFe8g"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=48H34ukFe8g[/url] As far as we are concerned the trial is not going to be carried over to The International and does not change out relationship with BFF or its membership. Thank you for your concern though. [/quote] It only bothers me in that I didn't know the true answer. I would have preferred to see Chax's name cleared once and for all, just didn't have the time to do so, so for now, we have Schrodinger's Owl.