Comrade Craig Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) [quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1357864724' post='3074260'] He's not referring to the cancellation, the cancellation was absolutely the right thing to do, in fact you should never have signed the treaty in the first place. NEW goes insane on an annual basis, you knew that when you inked the treaty, it's not a new character trait. So trying to strike backroom deals so you take minimal damage if you have to enter in their defence is pretty poor. If you agree to enter on a limited conflict basis it diminishes the act of coming to their aid, essentially you are entering so you can save face while your MADP partners get theirs smashed in because you have no real intention of being of any assistance. You'd be better just being honest and saying NEW you are !@#$@#$ retarded, you violated the terms of our treaty and you can go die in the fire you have built for yourself. Instead you choose to try and claim a moral victory in a situation where it wasn't really required selling out your MADP allies in the process. [/quote] I don't think this is totally fair, man. BFF is taking it in the backside in an effort to protect all of their allies. The so-called "backroom deals" you're citing are largely the attempts by external and cowardly entities in a pathetic attempt to save themselves. Having previously been in a similar situation, I commend them for handling it far better than I did. -Craig Edited January 11, 2013 by Comrade Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Sadly the conversations in question where BFF sold out NEW are in various private conversations which occurred last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gofastleft Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Anybody that signs a treaty with NEW deserves whatever happens to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster83 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='Walshington' timestamp='1357866030' post='3074274'] You know, I just don't see it. Can you elaborate your position? Seems to me that NEW put BFF in a potential political bad spot, compounding previous communications problems. BFF cancelled, citing a clause in the treaty. If they'd have left it at that, there would be a whiff of "we're trying to avoid a war with NPO". But they vented that out by saying they were in for whatever NEW did for the next week. I seem to be missing the sell out part. [/quote] Seeking some sort of "termed" war and covering it up as coming in for the support of their friends is pretty lame to me. [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1357865732' post='3074270'] Get over yourself. An alliance that so blatantly betrays the trust of their ally deserves to be sold out. BFF owe NEW nothing in my opinion. BFF is giving NEW far more than I would in their shoes. [/quote] It's NEW... Considering they have been allies for years you would think that they would know them by now. Why anyone would sign a MDAP is beyond my understanding, let alone with one of the ( if not the most ) unpredictable alliances. Good to hear that you agree that BFF completely sold out one of their allies though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Craig Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 UPN? Is that still an alliance? -Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1357866462' post='3074281'] UPN? Is that still an alliance? -Craig [/quote] yes, Xiphosis still hasn't managed to disband them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingervites Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Secretly I was hoping for a declaration of support or war but knew that wouldn't be the case. NEW had one of their moments except this time there was no BFF to protect them. With Kaskus at war I didn't expect NEW to act any differently than they did. GL to both of you in the future BFF and NEW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groucho Marx Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1357864724' post='3074260'] He's not referring to the cancellation, the cancellation was absolutely the right thing to do, in fact you should never have signed the treaty in the first place. NEW goes insane on an annual basis, you knew that when you inked the treaty, it's not a new character trait. So trying to strike backroom deals so you take minimal damage if you have to enter in their defence is pretty poor. If you agree to enter on a limited conflict basis it diminishes the act of coming to their aid, essentially you are entering so you can save face while your MADP partners get theirs smashed in because you have no real intention of being of any assistance. You'd be better just being honest and saying NEW you are !@#$@#$ retarded, you violated the terms of our treaty and you can go die in the fire you have built for yourself. Instead you choose to try and claim a moral victory in a situation where it wasn't really required selling out your MADP allies in the process. [/quote] Coming from the alliance that canceled on TOP because you see them as colluding with an enemy that only thought of you as potential friends, I should eagerly listen to what you have to say about morality? NEW sold out BFF the moment they decided to deliberately expand a war that would have fizzled out on its own with no unnecessary bloodshed and without putting friends at odds with one another by not consulting with BFF before they acted. NEW deliberately tried to exploit their MADP with BFF because they saw it as a means to expand this war into something it should not be. BFF is being incredibly lenient with them on this and that you would come out of the woodwork so blatantly to attack the difficult decision that I know you would never have the balls to make yourself is quite telling on how you view your own allies and treaty obligations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piejonk Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1357866124' post='3074275']So yes...they did concoct a plan to aid Kaskus as part of a plot to start a larger war. [/quote] Of course, they had foreseen this cancellation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walshington Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1357866780' post='3074286'] to deliberately expand a war that would have fizzled out on its own with no unnecessary bloodshed [/quote] To be honest, NEW, Shangri-La and NPO are all meddlers in what should have been a one on one war over a one on one issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groucho Marx Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='Walshington' timestamp='1357867349' post='3074290'] To be honest, NEW, Shangri-La and NPO are all meddlers in what should have been a one on one war over a one on one issue. [/quote] That they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Vapneir Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1357866780' post='3074286'] NEW sold out BFF the moment they decided to deliberately expand a war that would have fizzled out on its own with no unnecessary bloodshed and without putting friends at odds with one another by not consulting with BFF before they acted. NEW deliberately tried to exploit their MADP with BFF because they saw it as a means to expand this war into something it should not be. [/quote] Well, in their defense, a MADPact is pretty much designed for that use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longnameislonger Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1357866780' post='3074286'] Coming from the alliance that canceled on TOP because you see them as colluding with an enemy that only thought of you as potential friends, I should eagerly listen to what you have to say about morality? NEW sold out BFF the moment they decided to deliberately expand a war that would have fizzled out on its own with no unnecessary bloodshed and without putting friends at odds with one another by not consulting with BFF before they acted. NEW deliberately tried to exploit their MADP with BFF because they saw it as a means to expand this war into something it should not be. BFF is being incredibly lenient with them on this and that you would come out of the woodwork so blatantly to attack the difficult decision that I know you would never have the balls to make yourself is quite telling on how you view your own allies and treaty obligations. [/quote] I recently read some logs that make reading the stuff here about BFF's honor seem kind of strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigelopisan Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Sad but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gofastleft Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1357866780' post='3074286'] NEW sold out BFF the moment they decided to deliberately expand a war that would have fizzled out on its own with no unnecessary bloodshed and without putting friends at odds with one another by not consulting with BFF before they acted. [b]NEW deliberately tried to exploit their MADP with BFF[/b] because they saw it as a means to expand this war into something it should not be. [/quote] This is what NEW does best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1357866462' post='3074281'] UPN? Is that still an alliance? -Craig [/quote] My thoughts precisely. I remember helping to crush their upper tier a while back, good times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longshadow Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) [quote name='longnameislonger' timestamp='1357867698' post='3074295'] I recently read some logs that make reading the stuff here about BFF's honor seem kind of strange. [/quote] I think we would all be happy to see these, but since only a few people know about them why make accusations that probably won't get backed up? It does nothing but make you look like you are flinging mud for no reason and BFF get what it wanted which is to save some face. The best thing to do is either dump the logs or just not mention them. Edited January 11, 2013 by Longshadow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster83 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1357866780' post='3074286'] NEW deliberately tried to exploit their MADP with BFF because they saw it as a means to expand this war into something it should not be. BFF is being incredibly lenient with them on this and that you would come out of the woodwork so blatantly to attack the difficult decision that I know you would never have the balls to make yourself is quite telling on how you view your own allies and treaty obligations. [/quote] I don't see how BFF shouldn't share the blame for signing the MADP in the first place. It works both ways. It's idiotic. Especially when the alliances in question had been allies for years and were familiar with NEW's antics. The fact of the matter is that they knew that something like this could potentially happen, in other instances they would of tagged along, it didn't suit them in this particular situation so they sold out their allies, and calling it an honourable act is beyond a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsabeast1 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1357866780' post='3074286'] Coming from the alliance that canceled on TOP because you see them as colluding with an enemy that only thought of you as potential friends, I should eagerly listen to what you have to say about morality? [/quote] Your comparing DH wanting to be friends with IRON(really use) and getting them to leave their DR brothers, to BFF canceling on NEW for a horrible political move? I'm going to ignore this and just assume your naturally trolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walshington Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='Longshadow' timestamp='1357867955' post='3074300'] I think we would all be happy to see these, but since only a few people know about them why make accusations that probably won't get backed up? It does nothing but make you look like you are flinging mud for no reason and BFF get what it wanted which is to save some face. The best thing to do is either dump the logs or just not mention them. [/quote] I agree. Not being privvy to the logs, I can only judge BFF on the OP. [quote name='Robster83' timestamp='1357868041' post='3074301'] BOOBS (.Y.) [/quote] Sorry man, that's all I can think about every time you post. I may be old, but I ain't dead... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeology Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 best of luck to both BFF and NEW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingervites Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='longnameislonger' timestamp='1357867698' post='3074295'] I recently read some logs that make reading the stuff here about BFF's honor seem kind of strange. [/quote]How they chose to deal with NEW =/= their past record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) The attempts to discredit BFF's honor by people who back down on ultimatums to let Big Brother take over is amusing. Edited January 11, 2013 by WarriorConcept Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbies0310 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Very tough and honorable move by BFF. o/ my allies and close friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groucho Marx Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) [quote name='salsabeast1' timestamp='1357868164' post='3074305'] Your comparing DH wanting to be friends with IRON(really use) and getting them to leave their DR brothers, to BFF canceling on NEW for a horrible political move? I'm going to ignore this and just assume your naturally trolling. [/quote] Now who is the one yanking everyone's chain here? I know that you are a moron (all of your posts for evidence) but where did I ever say that DH was trying to get IRON to leave DR or "use" them, and to what end? Who's putting bullcrap in whose mouth again? Oh yeah, you. [quote name='longnameislonger' timestamp='1357867698' post='3074295'] I recently read some logs that make reading the stuff here about BFF's honor seem kind of strange. [/quote] I recently read some logs that make reading the stuff here about how bad BFF is for cutting some deal look extremely hypocritical for some of these fine, upstanding people that have come out in force to complain. Edited January 11, 2013 by Emperor Marx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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