Ernesto Che Guevara Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 If the alliance in question were any other alliance than GOONS, world opinion wouldn't be what it is now. You're all a bunch of hilariously inept hypocrites, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCRABT Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 [quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1350759350' post='3043399'] DoorNail brought this on himself. So why are we the bad guys? [/quote] The purpose of an alliance is to defend against the aggression of others, you attacked his alliance so he did what he could to defend his alliance against unprovoked aggression. While yes he should have sought out protection, he reacted in the same way any alliance leader should and looked to defend his alliance, It doesn't matter whether an alliance has 6 or 600 members the principle of standing together to defend one another remains the same. You are being labelled the bad guys because you are punishing him as an individual for acting under the exact same principles as GOONS or any other alliance would in his situation simply because of a matter of numbers rather than any reasoned rationale based on comparative practice. But then you already know this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saniiro Matsudaira Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 The GOONS-Kaskus war horse has been dead long before this beating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Flynt Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 [quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1350771987' post='3043436'] If the alliance in question were any other alliance than GOONS, world opinion wouldn't be what it is now. You're all a bunch of hilariously inept hypocrites, [/quote] If the alliance in question were any other alliance than GOONS, world opinion might be different because not many alliances have a history of trying to !@#$ on small alliances like GOONS does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Moon Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 [quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1350771987' post='3043436'] If the alliance in question were any other alliance than GOONS, world opinion wouldn't be what it is now. You're all a bunch of hilariously inept hypocrites, [/quote] 1. Evidence? 2. How do you think this alleged bias against GOONS would have formed in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1350771987' post='3043436'] If the alliance in question were any other alliance than GOONS, world opinion wouldn't be what it is now. You're all a bunch of hilariously inept hypocrites, [/quote] I can confirm that if NPO, MK, IRON, GPA, VE, or BFF attacked an alliance and then ZI-listed its leader for counterattacks, then no one would have any problem with that at all. Moron. [quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1350662881' post='3042951'] Now it's one-on-one, coming from an alliance whose prior attempts to bring in a bunch of friends to roll goons ended in [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=blog&module=display§ion=blog&blogid=341&showentry=2166"]colossal failure[/url]. [/quote] Is every war that doesn't happen a colossal failure, or just mine? CoJ, an alliance of ~40 at the time with 2 optional treaties (with micros), gathered something like 8 alliances ranging from Nordreich to Polaris to seriously discuss attacking GOONS out of the blue simply for the sport of attacking GOONS. OsRavan ran interference for you. But that was 2 years ago exactly, and things have changed: [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]03:09:24: <OsRavan[ODN]> yes and imo cng's future is with NPO/DR[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]03:09:25: <OsRavan[ODN]> but[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]03:09:30: <OsRavan[ODN]> it takes time to forge real relationships[/font][/color] [quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1350715395' post='3043269'] Goodness me I am really getting tired of being a treaty away from you people. Hell we may as well be treatied and it pretty much makes me sick at this point. I could care less who you raid but you really are a pathetic bunch. It's unfortunate that our CnG pals can't see reason to just leave DH to their fate. It's the stupidity shown in any number of GOONs posts here that has most of our alliance despising you. CnG has the ties to be just fine without DH. I guess it's all fine and dandy not to want to be seen as leaving during the "tough" times. Keep messing up though. Those voices in those CnG forums calling for us to cut ties will just get louder and start making more sense. [/quote] Or didn't you notice? You say colossal failure, I say [i]avant-garde[/i]. Edited October 21, 2012 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenMorningstar Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1350775687' post='3043459'] I can confirm that if NPO, MK, IRON, GPA, VE, or BFF attacked an alliance and then ZI-listed its leader for counterattacks, then no one would have any problem with that at all. Moron. [/quote] You certainly wouldn't, although I would expect some kind of terribly convoluted, long winded and horribly prosed pages of text that would do logic gymnastics to try and say how it's okay for them but not for GOONS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff Webster Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 [quote name='Tir Nan Og' timestamp='1350784071' post='3043499'] You certainly wouldn't, although I would expect some kind of terribly convoluted, long winded and horribly prosed pages of text that would do logic gymnastics to try and say how it's okay for them but not for GOONS. [/quote] We'll cross that imaginary bridge when we reach fantasy land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 [quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1350759350' post='3043399'] DoorNail brought this on himself. So why are we the bad guys? [/quote] Oh EM it's not that you raid. It's not even that you raid alliances with 7-8 people with no ties. That's all fine. However, when they fight back or get an alliance on their side, have the damn decency to say fine it was a nice little raid while it lasted...and then just cut them loose. Instead you guys come out here act all high and mighty and end up looking like a bunch of damn fools when the people calling you out are completely destroying you with their arguments. Learn to quit while you are at least ahead. Until then, every time something like this happens you make yourself and everyone around you look like !@#$. I don't know how many times you've been told by your allies but as someone who may as well be directly tied to you I'm tired of it myself. If you don't care then fine continue as you are. Just remember our common allies can forgive a whole lot easier than I can so I guess you guys will be fine in that regard but even members in those alliances are starting to grumble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 [quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1350786387' post='3043518']Instead you guys come out here act all high and mighty and end up looking like a bunch of damn fools when the people calling you out are completely destroying you with their arguments. [/quote] You can't possibly be reading the same set of posts I have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1350787427' post='3043528'] You can't possibly be reading the same set of posts I have been. [/quote] Considering how next to none of your allies have come to argue for your side in this thread, I think he's just making clear what should have been obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 [quote name='Nintenderek' timestamp='1350787645' post='3043531'] Considering how next to none of your allies have come to argue for your side in this thread, I think he's just making clear what should have been obvious. [/quote] I wasn't aware we weren't allied to BFF or TLR. Please go back to lecturing us on raid policy you know very little about, moralist, it is oh so hilarious to watch you cry out for us to respect the imagined sovereignty of 7 people sitting on an AA with no ties, because in their own minds they are an alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1350787896' post='3043535'] I wasn't aware we weren't allied to BFF or TLR. Please go back to lecturing us on raid policy you know very little about, moralist, it is oh so hilarious to watch you cry out for us to respect the imagined sovereignty of 7 people sitting on an AA with no ties, because in their own minds they are an alliance. [/quote] Eh, to be fair Sykes was arguing the one minuscule argument that you have which is you should be able to determine on your own who you deem to be a "real" alliance. I didn't argue that. I agree but your methods of dealing with those people are pretty damn bad. I know you guys think it's fun to badger people you are taking advantage of but it really is a crappy thing to do. Raid them if you must but there is no need to kick dirt in people's faces when they are down and further humiliate them. You guys have a propensity to take things way to far in these cases. It's not as cool or funny as you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 [quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1350789721' post='3043549'] Eh, to be fair Sykes was arguing the one minuscule argument that you have which is you should be able to determine on your own who you deem to be a "real" alliance. I didn't argue that. I agree but your methods of dealing with those people are pretty damn bad. I know you guys think it's fun to badger people you are taking advantage of but it really is a crappy thing to do. Raid them if you must but there is no need to kick dirt in people's faces when they are down and further humiliate them. You guys have a propensity to take things way to far in these cases. It's not as cool or funny as you think. [/quote] It's not about badgering, it's about maintaining policy. Regardless, we are not entirely without mercy, I am sure we will be able to work our a purchase price with somebody, and doornail will be free to go about his business again. If he wanted to make a reasonable offer for his removal from our list, we would be happy to consider it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonator21 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 You would think you'd realize your "policy" is broken by now. You know it's bad when I'm agreeing with magicninja, but damn, you guys went and did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1350789932' post='3043552'] It's not about badgering, it's about maintaining policy. Regardless, we are not entirely without mercy, I am sure we will be able to work our a purchase price with somebody, and doornail will be free to go about his business again. If he wanted to make a reasonable offer for his removal from our list, we would be happy to consider it. [/quote] Your policy is a policy of badgering and humiliating people Sard. Everyone knows that. Perhaps you should take a look at the policy. There's no reason a guy trying to defend his alliance should be put through the ringer. No reason at all. Having to walk on hot coals and crawl through broken glass to get peace is not mercy no matter how much you think it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 [quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1350771987' post='3043436'] If the alliance in question were any other alliance than GOONS, world opinion wouldn't be what it is now. You're all a bunch of hilariously inept hypocrites, [/quote] Fanboy detected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1350787896' post='3043535'] I wasn't aware we weren't allied to BFF or TLR. Please go back to lecturing us on raid policy you know very little about, moralist, it is oh so hilarious to watch you cry out for us to respect the imagined sovereignty of 7 people sitting on an AA with no ties, because in their own minds they are an alliance. [/quote] And I've only seen like two or less members of both of those alliances post in here. Back in the day. if you said anything even slightly bad about an alliance, you'd usually have more allies of that alliance defending them than members. Apparently this is not the case with GOONS. And I know plenty about how horrible your raid policy is and I certainly wasn't aware moralist is supposed to be an insult. Keep trying Sardonic. Maybe one of these days you'll be able to debate on the OWF properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfox101 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 [quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1350771987' post='3043436'] If the alliance in question were any other alliance than GOONS, world opinion wouldn't be what it is now. You're all a bunch of hilariously inept hypocrites, [/quote] Well, to be fair, no other alliance does this. Therefore, we'll never know how the international community responds. You call us hypocrites for calling them out on this, but if this were an alliance like CSN, you'd be calling them out. So, it goes both ways. Personally, I know that I would treat anyone who did this as I am now. Especially a smug, repeat offender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyas Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 [quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1350790650' post='3043556'] You would think you'd realize your "policy" is broken by now. You know it's bad when I'm agreeing with magicninja, but damn, you guys went and did it. [/quote] Nothing like a GOONS raiding fiasco to bring people together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groucho Marx Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 [quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1350790719' post='3043557'] Your policy is a policy of badgering and humiliating people Sard. Everyone knows that. Perhaps you should take a look at the policy. There's no reason a guy trying to defend his alliance should be put through the ringer. No reason at all. Having to walk on hot coals and crawl through broken glass to get peace is not mercy no matter how much you think it is. [/quote] He wouldn't have been 'put through the ringer' if he hadn't spent his time making threats instead of actually working to resolve the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfox101 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 [quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1350797706' post='3043589'] He wouldn't have been 'put through the ringer' if he hadn't spent his time making threats instead of actually working to resolve the problem. [/quote] Man, what an evil guy. Responding to violence with mere threats. I mean, it wasn't like his alliance was attacked or anything. Your attempts at playing the wronged party, while amusing, are incredibly stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 [quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1350797706' post='3043589'] He wouldn't have been 'put through the ringer' if he hadn't spent his time making threats instead of actually working to resolve the problem. [/quote] You really don't get to play the victim here EM. It makes you look ridiculous. Stop that !@#$ now. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You raid an 8 man alliance but you were the ones being threatened? Give me a break. That !@#$ doesn't fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groucho Marx Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 [quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1350798057' post='3043591'] Man, what an evil guy. Responding to violence with mere threats. I mean, it wasn't like his alliance was attacked or anything. Your attempts at playing the wronged party, while amusing, are incredibly stupid. [/quote] Implying that I'm arguing that we've been wronged by a 10K infra guy with a 20m war chest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfox101 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 [quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1350798535' post='3043593'] Implying that I'm arguing that we've been wronged by a 10K infra guy with a 20m war chest. [/quote] Breaking news: You did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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