End of the NPO | VE FRONT

[Dom Zak]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' timestamp='1342096039' post='3009069']
One does not honor a treaty by leaving the battlefield without your ally. Planet Bob has long regarded this as a dishonorable tactic. The honorable thing to do would be to remain at war until you can leave alongside your ally.

ZombVE clearly had no intention of actually doing this, or else they would still be at war.
[/quote]


Well at the rate that VE was going, I wouldn't be surprised if a couple more rounds damaged them to a point where they would need extensive rebuilding and therefore would be less of an asset to GOD. If my ally gave 50% of their strength for me but got hit pretty hard, I would still thank them for taking the pressure off of me and say GL with rebuilding however I wouldn't pull what GOD is pulling here. From what I am reading, it looks like GOD is sad it lost a meatshield in this war...

I guess not everyone is willing to throw themselves to the dogs for Xiphosis, looks like VE is starting to come around... and good for them.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Dom Zak

[King Wally]

geez... the peace mode !@#$%^&* is back... ok I'll go quote myself again if I must...

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=112143&st=40

http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Dave_War

DH/CnG and Allys ■Peace Mode: ▲ 828 (25.63%)
SF/XX and Allys ■Peace Mode: ▼ 622 (26.95%)

After removing VE entirely from the stats you are left with ;

SF/XX and Allys (VE removed) ■Peace Mode: ▼ 611 (28.89%)

Get off your rediculous imaginary high horse with the peace mode insults your coalition is doing exactly the same thing. In fact you have more people in peace mode then us but only marginally fewer % wise and thats with you having the bloody stronger side! What are you afraid of hurting your fists during your No-CB beatdown?

You say your bored... well guess what it's no bloody surprise your not doing anything of interest when you do everything in your power to replay the exact same war from 6 months ago only with less enthusiasm and "grudge". You want to be excited then stop crying about peace mode problems that your doing yourself and go let a war start that you dont already have the entire script written for 6 months ago,

And for the record I have full respect for VE, they had a crack for their allys, sure they could of done more but they did a lot lot more then many other people would of if given the option between entering a tough war or e-lawyering a way to piggy back onto the easy side. Those AA's are a dime a dozen and you know who you are, VE isn't one of them.

[Iotupa]

[quote name='Dom Zak' timestamp='1342096327' post='3009070']
Well at the rate that VE was going, I wouldn't be surprised if a couple more rounds damaged them to a point where they would need extensive rebuilding and therefore would be less of an asset to GOD. If my ally gave 50% of their strength for me but got hit pretty hard, I would still thank them for taking the pressure off of me and say GL with rebuilding however I wouldn't pull what GOD is pulling here. From what I am reading, it looks like GOD is sad it lost a meatshield in this war...
[/quote]

Yes, but extensive rebuilding is often the case after a war. One does not sign a treaty that involves mutual defense, especially with an alliance as controversial as GOD has been for much of its existence, without the knowledge that it would likely put one in a bad position in a war. You don't get to simply stop honoring your treaty because of the damage you have taken.

[Dom Zak]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' timestamp='1342096475' post='3009072']
Yes, but extensive rebuilding is often the case after a war. One does not sign a treaty that involves mutual defense, especially with an alliance as controversial as GOD has been for much of its existence, without the knowledge that it would likely put one in a bad position in a war. You don't get to simply stop honoring your treaty because of the damage you have taken.
[/quote]

That is true, IRON has taken significant damge in wars past (just look at Bipolar) however in my statement you quoted I was more or less talking about GODs reaction to their surrender in this threads by saying that VE has become less of an asset to them and betrayed them in some way. Yes, i understand that they could have lasted more rounds but like VE said, it took some pressure off of GOD and GOD is going to need one of their allies to pump them aid after this probably, and by the look of VE's top tier warchests, it looks like it could be them.

That's another good thing I can say about VE, nice warchest

[Johnny Apocalypse]

you guys are being pretty ungrateful considering VE literally burned for your coalition because of a single treaty tie.

[Charles Stuart]

[quote]Peace out all wars and/or accept peace offered by all combatants.

Agree to not re-enter the conflict [b]which is collectively the DH Coalition[/b] vs SF/XX Coalition, regardless of the various fronts of the overall war for the remaining duration of the conflict.

Agree to not send money, technology, or soldiers to any combatants in the SF/XX Coalition regardless of the various fronts of the overall war in which they are engaged for the remaining duration of the conflict.[/quote]

So much for not being on a 'side'.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' timestamp='1342096039' post='3009069']
One does not honor a treaty by leaving the battlefield without your ally. Planet Bob has long regarded this as a dishonorable tactic. The honorable thing to do would be to remain at war until you can leave alongside your ally.

ZombVE clearly had no intention of actually doing this, or else they would still be at war.
[/quote]

Then what should we call to GOD who stayed in Peace Mode while VE was actually fighting for them? Honour goes both directions and GOD failed to prove itself deserving of the selfless ally VE showed itself to be. If GOD is not fighting, VE shouldn't either.

[quote name='King Wally' timestamp='1342096472' post='3009071']
geez... the peace mode !@#$%^&* is back... ok I'll go quote myself again if I must...

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=112143&st=40

http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Dave_War

DH/CnG and Allys ■Peace Mode: ▲ 828 (25.63%)
SF/XX and Allys ■Peace Mode: ▼ 622 (26.95%)

After removing VE entirely from the stats you are left with ;

SF/XX and Allys (VE removed) ■Peace Mode: ▼ 611 (28.89%)

Get off your rediculous imaginary high horse with the peace mode insults your coalition is doing exactly the same thing. In fact you have more people in peace mode then us but only marginally fewer % wise and thats with you having the bloody stronger side! What are you afraid of hurting your fists during your No-CB beatdown?

You say your bored... well guess what it's no bloody surprise your not doing anything of interest when you do everything in your power to replay the exact same war from 6 months ago only with less enthusiasm and "grudge". You want to be excited then stop crying about peace mode problems that your doing yourself and go let a war start that you dont already have the entire script written for 6 months ago,

And for the record I have full respect for VE, they had a crack for their allys, sure they could of done more but they did a lot lot more then many other people would of if given the option between entering a tough war or e-lawyering a way to piggy back onto the easy side. Those AA's are a dime a dozen and you know who you are, VE isn't one of them.
[/quote]

It's not an insult. Hiding the upper tier in peace mode while their allies burn is a tactic. Running away from battle is a tactic. Calling it honourable is !@#$%* though.

The percentage of people in peace mode is irrelevant. What matters is that an ally came in for GOD, they gave it all and GOD just watched from the sidelines as they burned and then !@#$%*ed when they decided that half their nation strength was sacrifice enough. Sure we have people in peace mode in the lower tiers, we're not doing what GOD did though.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Lusitan

[Auctor]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1342096852' post='3009080']
Then what should we call to GOD who stayed in Peace Mode while VE was actually fighting for them? Honour goes both directions and GOD failed to prove itself deserving of the selfless ally VE showed itself to be. If GOD is not fighting, VE shouldn't either.
[/quote]
I think the flaw with that logic is that we all pretty much knew VE'd peace out like this and GOD can hardly be blamed for structuring their war strategy around it.

[Iotupa]

[quote name='Dom Zak' timestamp='1342096782' post='3009076']
That is true, IRON has taken significant damge in wars past (just look at Bipolar) however in my statement you quoted I was more or less talking about GODs reaction to their surrender in this threads by saying that VE has become less of an asset to them and betrayed them in some way. Yes, i understand that they could have lasted more rounds but like VE said, it took some pressure off of GOD and GOD is going to need one of their allies to pump them aid after this probably, and by the look of VE's top tier warchests, it looks like it could be them.

That's another good thing I can say about VE, nice warchest
[/quote]


They did betray GOD, by leaving the battlefield prior to GOD receiving peace. That is a betrayal of the treaty they signed with GOD.

As far as post-war aid, I honestly doubt ZombVE intends to hold this treaty for much longer. They've shown where their true allegiance falls.


[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1342096852' post='3009080']
Then what should we call to GOD who stayed in Peace Mode while VE was actually fighting for them? Honour goes both directions and GOD failed to prove itself deserving of the selfless ally VE showed itself to be. If GOD is not fighting, VE shouldn't either.
[/quote]

The idea that so many on your side continue to push this peace mode "issue" is humorous at best (assuming you know you're attempting to blow smoke up everyone's backside) and ignorant at worst (if you are honestly unaware of the true happenings). Your side has used and continues to use the same exact tactic in war. It is an extremely common tactic that has been used for years on Planet Bob. As far as GOD "not fighting," it looks to me like they are still fighting and at war with numerous alliances, including the one that their so-called "ally" just got peace with.

[kite80]

I fought with NPO and Oceania guys, it's been cool to meet them in the battlefield. Now I'd like to see them again in peace, new friends are always welcome in Abruzzo :-)

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1342090770' post='3009028']
when you attacked us a second time simply because you were bored? yes, absolutely.
[/quote]
The whole point is that nobody got their pound of flesh the first time because of alliances like Sparta hiding. Do you actually not get it?

[quote name='King Wally' timestamp='1342096472' post='3009071']
a bloo bloo
[/quote]
wars aren't won in the lower tier

Edited July 12, 2012 by Neo Uruk

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' timestamp='1342097217' post='3009082']
The idea that so many on your side continue to push this peace mode "issue" is humorous at best (assuming you know you're attempting to blow smoke up everyone's backside) and ignorant at worst (if you are honestly unaware of the true happenings). Your side has used and continues to use the same exact tactic in war. It is an extremely common tactic that has been used for years on Planet Bob. As far as GOD "not fighting," it looks to me like they are still fighting and at war with numerous alliances, including the one that their so-called "ally" just got peace with.
[/quote]

I don't really care whether Peace Mode is used or not. That's irrelevant and a tactic. The point here is that you call out VE for being dishonourable for leaving the battlefield earlier than GOD when GOD actually never joined the said battlefield VE fought on because of their tactic.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Lusitan

[King Wally]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1342096852' post='3009080']
What matters is that an ally came in for GOD, they gave it all and GOD just watched from the sidelines as they burned and then !@#$%*ed when they decided that half their nation strength was sacrifice enough. Sure we have people in peace mode in the lower tiers, we're not doing what GOD did though.
[/quote]


Umbrella is 18.4% in peace mode right now and the most hillarious part about that is that your alliance is so dam large virtually no one is in attack range? Which 18.4% even need to be in peace mode? I can only guess its your bottom teir, litterally the only people that would even be able to fight range wise? Well funny that hey you like to throw out statements about GOD not doing the best and protecting themselves in peace mode while you do the very same yourself as your allys do the leg work. Bravo mate your outdoing yourself here.

[ditchboy00]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1342066525' post='3008836']
All I can read is: We don't have the resilience to fight a losing war, so we had to beg for mercy and ran from the battlefield abandoning our allies to their own luck.



Before VE declare war in defense of GOD? No, but I respected VE decision to join the war.
[/quote]
It is pretty tough to continuously sit in war mode and get hammered to hell by IRON and friends who do a very good job of staggering while your allies and their allies are mostly in peace mode. We did this for over 2 months last war, in the end your allies have to be willing to help themselves. VE was losing 200k a day while GoD is losing 25k.

Edited July 12, 2012 by ditchboy00

[Iotupa]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1342097516' post='3009087']
I don't really care whether Peace Mode is used or not. That's irrelevant and a tactic. The point here is that you call out VE for being dishonourable for leaving the battlefield earlier than GOD when GOD actually never joined the said battlefield VE fought on because of their tactic.
[/quote]

Okay, so if peace mode isn't the issue here, then there is currently not a single war between GOD and NPO? That's what you're saying here.

Seems to me that's probably a false statement on your part.

EDIT: You (both you yourself and your coalition) should also try to work on some consistency. You swap back and forth between peace mode being the issue here and peace mode not being the issue.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Jonathan Brookbank

[hornguard]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1342085243' post='3009001']
your alliance will offer white peace to GOD/CSN when those alliance have only 10% of it's top 10 in war mode for 2 rounds of war? or are you just whining you cant keep us at war forever?

edit: I also love how obvious the replies are here that VE declared politically, not to actually defend GOD.
[/quote]
Mogar, if you go to war, I'll defend you, that way you'll feel loved.

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' timestamp='1342097675' post='3009090']
Okay, so if peace mode isn't the issue here, then there is currently not a single war between GOD and NPO? That's what you're saying here.

Seems to me that's probably a false statement on your part.
[/quote]
GOD isn't declaring enough wars to deserve VE's presence on their behalf is what he's saying. VE's throwing their entire alliance in the fire for someone who isn't willing to fight for themselves.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' timestamp='1342097675' post='3009090']
Okay, so if peace mode isn't the issue here, then there is currently not a single war between GOD and NPO? That's what you're saying here.

Seems to me that's probably a false statement on your part.
[/quote]

Peace mode is the issue in this situation, not as a tactic in abstract. In this concrete situation, adopting the Peace mode tactic had as consequence that VE to lose half its NS and most its upper tier fighting alone a fight they joined to defend GOD. Adopting the peace mode tactic while VE was getting smashed for them was dishonourable from GOD, not the tactic itself.

[Iotupa]

[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1342097820' post='3009093']
GOD isn't declaring enough wars to deserve VE's presence on their behalf is what he's saying. VE's throwing their entire alliance in the fire for someone who isn't willing to fight for themselves.
[/quote]

Is there a clause somewhere in the treaty that states that both alliances should throw out conventional war tactics or else the treaty is null and void? Because ZombVE chose to fight in a manner inconsistent with Planet Bob strategy does not mean that GOD should do the same. In the face of insurmountable odds, the strategy is to put nations in peace mode.


[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1342097902' post='3009094']
Peace mode is the issue in this situation, not as a tactic in abstract. In this concrete situation, adopting the Peace mode tactic had as consequence that VE to lose half its NS and most its upper tier fighting alone a fight they joined to defend GOD. Adopting the peace mode tactic while VE was getting smashed for them was dishonourable from GOD, not the tactic itself.
[/quote]

It both is and isn't the issue? That makes absolutely no sense, no offense. As far as GOD adopting the strategy, they were using it when ZombVE entered the war. As I stated above, because ZombVE chose to fight with no strategy does not mean that they get to ignore the honoring of their treaty.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Jonathan Brookbank

[Iotupa]

Also, for what it's worth, I don't have a horse in this race. I enjoyed watching ZombVE burn and don't particularly mind watching the same happen to GOD, as neither alliance has shown me much love. It has been an unfortunate circumstance that I have been forced onto this side by the actions of Non Grata.

I am simply commenting on the nature of the actions, which are objectively dishonorable. This is not a matter of opinion.

As a note, my opinions on GOD/ZombVE are not those of my alliance, blah blah, yada yada.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Jonathan Brookbank

[hornguard]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' timestamp='1342097217' post='3009082']
They did betray GOD, by leaving the battlefield prior to GOD receiving peace. That is a betrayal of the treaty they signed with GOD.

As far as post-war aid, I honestly doubt ZombVE intends to hold this treaty for much longer. They've shown where their true allegiance falls.




The idea that so many on your side continue to push this peace mode "issue" is humorous at best (assuming you know you're attempting to blow smoke up everyone's backside) and ignorant at worst (if you are honestly unaware of the true happenings). Your side has used and continues to use the same exact tactic in war. It is an extremely common tactic that has been used for years on Planet Bob. As far as GOD "not fighting," it looks to me like they are still fighting and at war with numerous alliances, including the one that their so-called "ally" just got peace with.
[/quote]
If you looked at who I was fighting, you'd see that I took about 9 nations out of GoD's backside for an extended period through nukes, including Senor Brehon (who happened to have 8k ns advantage over me at the beginning). I also know of many others in my alliance who had similar situations where they ate upwards of 6 slots at a time to keep Pacificans, Ferricans, Imperials, & Oceanians tied up. If that isn't commitment, then you can have my diamond solitaire back.

[King Wally]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1342097902' post='3009094']
Peace mode is the issue in this situation, not as a tactic in abstract. In this concrete situation, adopting the Peace mode tactic had as consequence that VE to lose half its NS and most its upper tier fighting alone a fight they joined to defend GOD. Adopting the peace mode tactic while VE was getting smashed for them was dishonourable from GOD, not the tactic itself.
[/quote]

Say's the AA that has it's bottom teir in peace mode and its top teir out of attack range on a quiet south pacific beach while Deino's moon bases are being taken out left right and centre.

Listen to yourself. You are standing knee deep in mud pointing a finger at the man next to you about his muddy shoes. I don't know if you realise this and are just making an attempt at PR or if you really have no perception of it.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' timestamp='1342097997' post='3009095']
It both is and isn't the issue? That makes absolutely no sense, no offense. As far as GOD adopting the strategy, they were using it when ZombVE entered the war. As I stated above, because ZombVE chose to fight with no strategy does not mean that they get to ignore the honoring of their treaty.
[/quote]

It making sense or not to you is not my problem. It's simple. There's nothing wrong with using Peace Mode as a tactic. There's something wrong with letting your ally who came in to defend you to take all the damage by using Peace Mode as a tactic. If it makes it clear for you: It's not wrong to run away to dodge aggression on you but it's absolutely wrong when your friend throws himself in front of you to defend you and you just keep running.

[quote name='King Wally' timestamp='1342098440' post='3009101']
Say's the AA that has it's bottom teir in peace mode and its top teir out of attack range on a quiet south pacific beach while Deino's moon bases are being taken out left right and centre.

Listen to yourself. You are standing knee deep in mud pointing a finger at the man next to you about his muddy shoes. I don't know if you realise this and are just making an attempt at PR or if you really have no perception of it.
[/quote]

We're supporting Deinos, don't worry. If Deinos surrenders and you see us complaining on the OWF how !@#$%* they are for leaving the battlefield early then you can come talk to me.

In the meanwhile work a bit on your situation comprehension.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Lusitan

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' timestamp='1342097997' post='3009095']
Is there a clause somewhere in the treaty that states that both alliances should throw out conventional war tactics or else the treaty is null and void? Because ZombVE chose to fight in a manner inconsistent with Planet Bob strategy does not mean that GOD should do the same. In the face of insurmountable odds, the strategy is to put nations in peace mode.
[/quote]
I'm sorry but I can't seem to recall, aside from the last two wars, anything besides [i]resistance movements[/i] like Vox and VietFAN where this was the norm.

[Tromp]

Well, there was little to be gained from entering in the first place.

All the best VE.