Announcement from Pandora's Box

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1337303546' post='2968944']
Or maybe we began discussing those issues with people far less crazy than yourself (such as Lanore and Laslo) who are actually sensible and open to talking after that minor controversy and have since conducted a pretty productive Q&A with GATO overall (again, made more productive by your lack of participation).
[/quote]
Let me say as an impartial party
1. VE sucks, and I wouldn't deal with them either. Bill Wallace has been on this "what did we do?!" quest for over a year and he's been answered. He's not actually asking the question anymore, he just likes to say it.
2. MagicNinja is patently rabid, and I wouldn't talk to him either. Take note, electorate.

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1337301484' post='2968930']
[img]http://i.imgur.com/JzvKu.png[/img]

Hater's gonna hate...
[/quote]
Such high hope's.

In the end, Pandora's Box failed to deliver. Golf clap for rolling Polaris, but really, that's child's play; Cult of Justitia could roll Polaris. Good job keeping each other from getting attacked by your . . . oh yeah, nevermind.
Pandora's Box made a good parade, but something always held it back. I dont' know what it was. Some of you just didn't have the commitment, or something. Maybe it was all the VE baggage, maybe it was Sardonic's [i]weird[/i] FA choices, maybe a fear of losing it. A real Italian army--very pretty in your uniforms but not worth much at the end of the day, victory by numbers only. When your allies got hit, you shrank from the challenge--gayrollers indeed, real shrinking violets. You couldn't stop the kamikaze runs into GOONS. You couldn't even scare people into shutting up--not one person in that cartoon has ever had one iota of pause for "what PB might do."

Oh, you gummed things up for a while. Most certainly. But all-in-all rather a dud, and what has it got any of you? I think Non Grata is the only beneficiary of this 2-year show of impotence.

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='Amossio' timestamp='1337337576' post='2969058']
tldr-another rant about Umbrella and MK....
roq you are a wonderful comedian, I must say, the way you throw your toys out of the pram and still worry so much about our FA position is cute. Seriously though, you so deluded in your own oversized ego you just seeing what you want to see.
[/quote]

It's not a delusional rant at all, he's gives a pretty accurate commentary since he was the leader for about half that time (something something finishing the job). His only failing is how he cannot look past the shifting of the world as something that MK somehow single-handedly created.

[Stewie]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1337350514' post='2969084']I think Non Grata is the only beneficiary of this 2-year show of impotence.
[/quote]

You're not the first person to say that to me recently Schattenmann. I'm sure you won't be the last either, however, I disagree. We lost a lot of good friends along the way...

[unpronounced]

Good bye, PB!

Who would've thought Kaskus was the one to do it?

[Sarmatian Empire]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1337350514' post='2969084']
Such high hope's.

In the end, Pandora's Box failed to deliver. Golf clap for rolling Polaris, but really, that's child's play; Cult of Justitia could roll Polaris. Good job keeping each other from getting attacked by your . . . oh yeah, nevermind.
Pandora's Box made a good parade, but something always held it back.
[/quote]

I think this is a great job summing things up. While PB dominated for awhile, it wasn't anything outside of the status quo, which is quite odd given the name "Pandora's Box." I guess you could argue we saw more pre-emps and that added some sort of excitement, but they were all done during a global war, except for the pre-empt on Polar, but as Schatt says, that is kinda like picking the default option.

[Monster]

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1337351178' post='2969089']
It's not a delusional rant at all, he's gives a pretty accurate commentary since he was the leader for about half that time (something something finishing the job). His only failing is how he cannot look past the shifting of the world as something that MK somehow single-handedly created.
[/quote]

I don't really see it that way. The shift occurred because a certain group of alliances pissed enough people off to the point where there was enough NS to definitively beat them. The grouping which did so, was a loose one, and was never going to last, so for me being excessively invested in some sort of incoherent coalition in which suspicion amongst various blocs/alliances would exist never made much sense.

The issue is, I have never had any desire to allow any allied alliance to overshadow Umbrella, especially when it results in a decline of overall FA power for the alliance. The lack of desire on Umbrella's part as well to not do anything with its potential projection power is something they can be entirely blamed for as well. I remember asking and Natan basically said it was because no one wanted go around investing the effort like I did into playing the wider political game. I guess it's a completely different attitude from mine.

The ironic thing is, they pretty much pretend I am an entirely different person at this point.

I will especially be fervent against an allied alliance that does just that and decides to start to make me into ultra bad guy #1 in some sort of revisionist history.

The shifting of the world will occur again despite the efforts currently in place to sideline certain alliances as continual rolling targets and the people who clamored the most for the shifting prior will be the ones doing their best to stop it.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Roquentin

[Ardus]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1337303546' post='2968944']
Or maybe we began discussing those issues with [b]people far less crazy than yourself (such as Lanore[/b] and Laslo) who are actually sensible and open to talking after that minor controversy and have since conducted a pretty productive Q&A with GATO overall (again, made more productive by your lack of participation).
[/quote]
[IMG]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z327/GummiDeMilo/Reaction%20Images/nbaturiaf_medium.gif[/IMG]

[b]damn[/b] that's a burn

[MrMuz]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1337350514' post='2969084']
Golf clap for rolling Polaris, but really, that's child's play; Cult of Justitia could roll Polaris.
[/quote]

Uh, no.

The stats on both sides were relatively equal in that war, Polar's side lost mainly due to a lower ANS and a side inexperienced in war. Compared to 90% of alliances, Polar had a superb military; it was stronger than any individual PB alliance at the time, with a very good nuke and military wonder count and above average warchests. I would've ranked it at around top 5 in military strength at the time.

Polar would've easily rolled CoJ back then, without the help of allies. Factoring in full allied support, Polar would've crushed CoJ like a bug within a month, and not have taken any real dip in NS. Heck, IIRC, CoJ failed to roll even the [i]weakest[/i] member of PB, even with the help of several micros.

The only reason why Polaris is considered a weaker alliance today is because of the impact the PB-NpO war had on the Polarsphere. PB had wrecked the balance of power in that war and the somewhat related DH-NPO war, which had strongly affected Digiterran political climate for months to come.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='MrMuz' timestamp='1337363091' post='2969167']
Uh, no.

The stats on both sides were relatively equal in that war, Polar's side lost mainly due to a lower ANS and a side inexperienced in war. Compared to 90% of alliances, Polar had a superb military; it was stronger than any individual PB alliance at the time, with a very good nuke and military wonder count and above average warchests. I would've ranked it at around top 5 in military strength at the time.

Polar would've easily rolled CoJ back then, without the help of allies. Factoring in full allied support, Polar would've crushed CoJ like a bug within a month, and not have taken any real dip in NS. Heck, IIRC, CoJ failed to roll even the [i]weakest[/i] member of PB, even with the help of several micros.[/quote]
-"Cult of Justitia could roll Polaris" is a rhetorical device. This is what it means: It's not a big accomplishment. Obviously, in literal terms, if I declare war on Polaris tonight, it won't happen. If, however, I sell out VE-style and sign some untenable bloc with no intentions of ever getting serious about one direction or the other, and the rest of the people in the bloc are the same way, CoJ could also easily roll Polaris.
-The assertion that Polaris brought the same power to the table that PB had is a ludicrous exaggeration. Laughable.
-GOONS still whines about that war, bad example.

[quote name='MrMuz' timestamp='1337363091' post='2969167']The only reason why Polaris is considered a weaker alliance today is because of the impact the PB-NpO war had on the Polarsphere. PB had wrecked the balance of power in that war and the somewhat related DH-NPO war, which had strongly affected Digiterran political climate for months to come.
[/quote]
No, Polaris has been sidelined since the noCB War.
Thank you, New Pacific Order.
You're welcome, \m/, PB, and TOP.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Schattenmann

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1337357077' post='2969125']
The issue is, I have never had any desire to allow any allied alliance to overshadow Umbrella, especially when it results in a decline of overall FA power for the alliance. The lack of desire on Umbrella's part as well to not do anything with its potential projection power is something they can be entirely blamed for as well. I remember asking and Natan basically said it was because no one wanted go around investing the effort like I did into playing the wider political game. [b]I guess it's a completely different attitude from mine.

The ironic thing is, they pretty much pretend I am an entirely different person at this point.[/b]

I will especially be fervent against an allied alliance that does just that and decides to start to make me into ultra bad guy #1 in some sort of revisionist history.
[/quote]

I don't even need to say anything, heh.

[GayDragon]

PB is gone. They were doomed from the start IMO.

However it is always sad to see blocs disband.

Best wishes.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1337350514' post='2969084']
Such high hope's.

In the end, Pandora's Box failed to deliver. Golf clap for rolling Polaris, but really, that's child's play; Cult of Justitia could roll Polaris. Good job keeping each other from getting attacked by your . . . oh yeah, nevermind.
Pandora's Box made a good parade, but something always held it back. I dont' know what it was. Some of you just didn't have the commitment, or something. Maybe it was all the VE baggage, maybe it was Sardonic's [i]weird[/i] FA choices, maybe a fear of losing it. A real Italian army--very pretty in your uniforms but not worth much at the end of the day, victory by numbers only. When your allies got hit, you shrank from the challenge--gayrollers indeed, real shrinking violets. You couldn't stop the kamikaze runs into GOONS. You couldn't even scare people into shutting up--not one person in that cartoon has ever had one iota of pause for "what PB might do."

Oh, you gummed things up for a while. Most certainly. But all-in-all rather a dud, and what has it got any of you? I think Non Grata is the only beneficiary of this 2-year show of impotence.
[/quote]

Aggggggggggreeeed here.
+/- a few things.

Edited May 18, 2012 by IYIyTh

[Crymson]

[quote name='MrMuz' timestamp='1337363091' post='2969167']
Compared to 90% of alliances, Polar had a superb military; it was stronger than any individual PB alliance at the time, with a very good nuke and military wonder count and above average warchests. I would've ranked it at around top 5 in military strength at the time.
[/quote]

Have you really ever fought Polar? I've done so three times over the past four years, and I can solidly attest to the fact that they're absolutely atrocious at fighting.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Crymson

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1337350514' post='2969084']
2. MagicNinja is patently rabid, and I wouldn't talk to him either. Take note, electorate.


Such high hope's.

In the end, Pandora's Box failed to deliver. Golf clap for rolling Polaris, but really, that's child's play; Cult of Justitia could roll Polaris. Good job keeping each other from getting attacked by your . . . oh yeah, nevermind.
Pandora's Box made a good parade, but something always held it back. I dont' know what it was. Some of you just didn't have the commitment, or something. Maybe it was all the VE baggage, maybe it was Sardonic's [i]weird[/i] FA choices, maybe a fear of losing it. A real Italian army--very pretty in your uniforms but not worth much at the end of the day, victory by numbers only. When your allies got hit, you shrank from the challenge--gayrollers indeed, real shrinking violets. You couldn't stop the kamikaze runs into GOONS. You couldn't even scare people into shutting up--not one person in that cartoon has ever had one iota of pause for "what PB might do."

Oh, you gummed things up for a while. Most certainly. But all-in-all rather a dud, and what has it got any of you? I think Non Grata is the only beneficiary of this 2-year show of impotence.
[/quote]

Maybe it had to do with the lack of MK's entrance to the bloc. I would imagine the world would be extremely different had MK joined Pandora's Box. Without MK joining there was always a way to oppose them. CnG being out there. Then the MJ/PF/DR cluster.

You could see this in several "almost wars". From SLCB-SOS to the NEW-DF war to NsO-SOS.


Also, Polar lost because of a whole bunch of things. Lack of motivation and horrible planning mostly. No one on our side really wanted to fight that war. We were all kind of forced to that side, because of circumstances really. I don't believe that fighting skill had much to do with it. On the RoK-PC front sure. But then when you look at front's like IAA against RIA, CSN against DT, and anyone who fought Sparta, you realize that we had good skillful people. They just weren't placed correctly.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Omniscient1

[Jake Liebenow]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1337383808' post='2969273']
Also, Polar lost because of a whole bunch of things.
[/quote]

You make that sound like an excuse, Omni, hah. PB was still the victor due to superior planning and military skill at the end of the day. A loss, sir, is still a loss.

[Sarmatian Empire]

[quote name='Jake Liebenow' timestamp='1337388001' post='2969305']
You make that sound like an excuse, Omni, hah. PB was still the victor due to superior planning and military skill at the end of the day. A loss, sir, is still a loss.
[/quote]
Ahhh the great Sun Tzu, first you win the war, and than you fight it

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Jake Liebenow' timestamp='1337388001' post='2969305']
You make that sound like an excuse, Omni, hah. PB was still the victor due to superior planning and military skill at the end of the day. A loss, sir, is still a loss.
[/quote]

Oh yea, the other side had better planning without a doubt. I just don't think PB had so much more fighting skill than those on our side. I mean it's not hard to press a button in coordination with your alliance mates.

[Jacapo Saladin]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1337383808' post='2969273']
Maybe it had to do with the lack of MK's entrance to the bloc. I would imagine the world would be extremely different had MK joined Pandora's Box. Without MK joining there was always a way to oppose them. CnG being out there. Then the MJ/PF/DR cluster.

You could see this in several "almost wars". From SLCB-SOS to the NEW-DF war to NsO-SOS.


Also, Polar lost because of a whole bunch of things. Lack of motivation and horrible planning mostly. No one on our side really wanted to fight that war. We were all kind of forced to that side, because of circumstances really. I don't believe that fighting skill had much to do with it. On the RoK-PC front sure. But then when you look at front's like IAA against RIA, CSN against DT, and anyone who fought Sparta, you realize that we had good skillful people. They just weren't placed correctly.
[/quote]

SLCB-SOS war didnt happen because SOS's allies didn't want to fight at that point, not because of some mystical force which would have ripped pb apart.

[Emperor Whimsical]

[quote name='Jake Liebenow' timestamp='1337388001' post='2969305']
You make that sound like an excuse, Omni, hah. PB was still the victor due to superior planning and military skill at the end of the day. A loss, sir, is still a loss.
[/quote]

You are correct. This was the reason for the last war too. We were simply outmanuevered.

In response to Mr.Muz, Polaris (due to being the centerpiece in three great wars more or less in a row) has suffered a large tech:infra ratio imbalances, which was made worse since paying off a large sum of their tech to TOP and co after last war. Haven't checked their tech recently, however.

Edit: Wow, my mind skipped Karma in counting great wars.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Emperor Whimsical

[flak attack]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1337340506' post='2969066']
No Alterego either, though LJ just put in prominent posters he didn't like in general.
[/quote]
Didn't BAPS fight in DH-NPO or was that another DR alliance that I'm thinking of?



[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1337383808' post='2969273']
Maybe it had to do with the lack of MK's entrance to the bloc. I would imagine the world would be extremely different had MK joined Pandora's Box. Without MK joining there was always a way to oppose them. CnG being out there. Then the MJ/PF/DR cluster.[/quote]
The odds of MK joining PB were always 0%. You're talking about an irrelevant situation.

Edited May 19, 2012 by flak attack

[Earogema]

That's it? Really?

Well that was boring.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1337350514' post='2969084']
Let me say as an impartial party
[/quote]

Yes because schatt has no bias in this obviously

[603Redneck]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1337400633' post='2969364']
Yes because schatt has no bias in this obviously
[/quote]
What bias does he have in this situation? Normally I'd agree with you but not this time

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1337400633' post='2969364']
Yes because schatt has no bias in this obviously
[/quote]
VE were a bunch of hacks and MagicNinja was insane long before I disliked either.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Schattenmann

[603Redneck]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1337401970' post='2969369']
VE were a bunch of hacks and MagicNinja was insane long before I disliked either.
[/quote]
How can you not like magicninja? You gonna say you don't like me next?