Merrie Melodies Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Vanilla Napalm' timestamp='1329806942' post='2925029'] Yeah i do get the strategic interest in redistributing the forces, and admittedly PC did ultimately get away without having to throw in any concessions. I'm still fairly curious as to why it was deemed necessary to rush it through immediately and for \m/ to ultimately concede to NpO's requests, even with the no more world police addendum. Sure, it was certainly a practical decision given that they were certainly in no state to engage in wide-scale raids after the war, but you'd imagine the lynchpin status that PC-\m/ had inadvertantly ran into could have been used to push for something a little more interesting. [/quote] In hind sight missed opportunities for sure. Don't want to side track Roq's thread, I would be curious what light Roq can shed on this whole situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Basically, since you asked, it seemed like it was intentionally rushed since Grub was MIA and so was FOK gov. Mike signed for an alliance he wasn't gov of, remember? I was asked to peace out all Polar allies because STA and Polar were going to switch sides, as predicted by Meer. King Wally: I get that, but like I've said before I was pinata for so long, that it kind of got to me. I'll try to take your advice though as it needs to be understood that I try to adapt when people tell me I screw up. I guess for a good analogy I'm trying to get the Weltgeist to realize itself and sometimes we hit bumps in the road. A dialectic, if you will. I brought up the problem of "Gerede"(German is a language of Nausea) or idle talk getting in the way of real political action. ooc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O4OpdFOXTI semi-relevant http://icarisain.wordpress.com/2009/03/18/translation-yousei-teikoku-wahrheit-lyrics/ http://web.me.com/grattonpeter/Heideggers_Fundamental_Ontology/Idle_Talk.html In case you haven't figured out by now, I'm more or less doing a more interactive Sophie's World with Mystery stuff mixed in along with Glee. Edited February 21, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTheFirst Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329814522' post='2925048'] Basically, since you asked, it seemed like it was intentionally rushed since Grub was MIA and so was FOK gov. Mike signed for an alliance he wasn't gov of, remember? I was asked to peace out all Polar allies because STA and Polar were going to switch sides, as predicted by Meer. [/quote] Grub wasn't MIA, because we discussed peace that morning. FOK's president was MIA, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) I heard something about an otherworldly music festival where he was doing stuff or something. Just cover my ass from an idealism charge: "To Hegel, the life-process of the human brain, i.e. the process of thinking, which, under the name of ‘the Idea’, he even transforms into an independent subject, is the demiurgos of the real world, and the real world is only the external, phenomenal form of ‘the Idea’. With me, on the contrary, the ideal is nothing else than the material world reflected by the human mind, and translated into forms of thought." - Karl Marx, Theorist of Communism(government) Edited February 21, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanilla Napalm Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329817708' post='2925054'] I heard something about an otherworldly music festival where he was doing stuff or something. Just cover my ass from an idealism charge: "To Hegel, the life-process of the human brain, i.e. the process of thinking, which, under the name of ‘the Idea’, he even transforms into an independent subject, is the demiurgos of the real world, and the real world is only the external, phenomenal form of ‘the Idea’. With me, on the contrary, the ideal is nothing else than the material world reflected by the human mind, and translated into forms of thought." - Karl Marx, Theorist of Communism(government) [/quote] Not to labour the point at all, but i don't really imagine many people considering the revelation of cladestine information (you were privy to) once it becomes an expedient weapon as being an act of idealism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) I guess it's Idealism vs idealism in that case. You refer to the latter. I already confessed to all of my crimes and have offered restitution. In order to avoid misinterpretation any further: essentially, what I have offered is a dialogue between me and all comers. This is a new approach compared to the authoritarianism of Archon and Grub. Given I have revealed most of my cards in terms of the stuff I deploy intellectually, I hope the charges of being condescending can be dropped. Edited February 21, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonewall Jaxon Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1329791874' post='2924920'] All well and good to say that and lay blame at the feet of alliances who have endured 2 or 3 curbstomps in the past couple of years. Even if the "worms" did rise up and do something I can be sure that various alliances will either sit on the sideline and eat popcorn or run to the other side for another "win" while the "worms" burned again. [/quote] Ex-Heg and Polar's circles are not the only one to have endured being on the losing side of continuous curbstomps, Tyga. If you recall, LUE endured nearly continuous war and rebuilding for a long time, yet they and their reincarnation remained steady and eventually won their own freedom. What disappoints me about today's political dynamic in Polar and Ex-Heg circles is that they have some of the oldest and tightest-wound communities in the game. TOP and Grämlins, together or independently, have great quantities of experience in their membership, so there is absolutely no reason PF should be afraid of anyone. In fact, they should be coalition building for themselves instead of latching on to DoomHouse. Hell, even if we all know NPO isn't nearly where it once was in terms of community (after all, the term "Francoism" is almost completely dead, and they have few if any verbose posters anymore), to accept defeat and latch on to the power structure as it exists now is a crying shame and will only slowly kill them. To fully invest in the community, Pacificans old and new alike need to see their alliance as a bastion of strength rather than a pawn in the greater scheme of things. Polaris is essentially the same; while I think what Grub did was one of the greatest displays of cowardice in our time, it is never too late for redemption and NpO has always done an excellent job of remaining strong and seeking to always rise from the ashes (perhaps they need sponge back for some coalition building, eh?). The list of alliances and spheres who deserve independence goes on and on (IRON and their Duckroll friends Valhalla, perhaps?), but without fortitude or bravery, I'm afraid we'll continue to see more years of the oldest and once greatest communities weakening as members lose faith. I'm sorry about the curbstomps, Tyga, but the nation strength one saves from conforming only serves to weaken one's alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorponok Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 All good things happen, when they are needed. (OOC: or so my parents always told me). I agree with your last point, but too much OWF attention for one man to handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Until other people step up to the plate, it's what I have to do. Even though it's all entertainment to some degree, I am serious about the goal. The elimination of the Mushroom Kingdom as a major political entity is not only a worthy goal, but the contradictions in the current set of alliance relations call for some radical change. Of course, quid pro quo, you're expected to take certain duties on board. Edited February 21, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlogYou Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329829751' post='2925090'] Until other people step up to the plate, it's what I have to do. Even though it's all entertainment to some degree, I am serious about the goal. [b]The elimination of the Mushroom Kingdom as a major political entity is not only a worthy goal[/b], but the contradictions in the current set of alliance relations call for some radical change. Of course, quid pro quo, you're expected to take certain duties on board. [/quote] Is that "Sparta's" position? Who's defining "worthy"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) I think that was answered thoroughly given what was said in another thread. Given the Mushroom Kingdom's position of !@#$ting on Sparta, yes. Want to do something about it? Make my day. I'm thinking about just reposting Ardus' stuff and replacing GOD/xiph/fark with MK. I wonder if any aggressive action your part would pass a PF vote. I'm guessing no. Edited February 21, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329831349' post='2925096'] I think that was answered thoroughly given what was said in another thread. Given the Mushroom Kingdom's position of !@#$ting on Sparta, yes. Want to do something about it? Make my day. I'm thinking about just reposting Ardus' stuff and replacing GOD/xiph/fark with MK. I wonder if any aggressive action your part would pass a PF vote. I'm guessing no. [/quote] We've got some tech to collect in the next couple of months. Don't know why you think we'd want to be "aggressive" towards anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Your membership continues to jump at me, usually haphazardly. Calm down, TOP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329834643' post='2925110'] Your membership continues to jump at me, usually haphazardly. Calm down, TOP. [/quote] I bet the number of people who have "jumped" at you is beneath 5. FlogYou simply asked the question of how you can determine what is "worthy" and you think he wants to attack you. Honestly, you don't have to worry about us until that number start reaching about 30. As someone who was once close to us you should be well aware of this. Then again perhaps you are still paranoid about us. Edit: I've got to say you did a good job hiding the paranoia. I was pretty shocked to learn about that. Edited February 21, 2012 by Feanor Noldorin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Because it's not only him. Most of your OWF posters more or less hate me. Flog, Rhyder, Crymson, and I don't want to have to list them all. Winter will be over, but Summer is coming. Ad portas!(MK) Edited February 21, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329835882' post='2925117'] Because it's not only him. Most of your OWF posters more or less hate me. Flog, Rhyder, Crymson, and I don't want to have to list them all. [/quote] You listed three members out of more than a hundred and nine (that's .027% of our General Assembly). One of the members is Crymson which everyone on the OWF knows is well... Crymson. Edit: My point, don't take the opinion of a few people and apply them to an entire alliance. Only morons do that and you're smarter than that. Edited February 21, 2012 by Feanor Noldorin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Flinders Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Here's the thing that you're getting hung up on. And I was going to say this in the thread where Schatt interviewed himself, but I didn't want to be a dick about it. Just because someone doesn't agree with you, does not mean that they are inherently wrong. I don't support you or your mission, but nor does that make me a mindless follower. I have made the conscious decision given the evidence presented and found that your mission is neither tangible nor possible and I stand firmly against it in favor of my allies. That doesn't make me less of a leader than you or anyone else for that matter. Until you realize that people the world over have a genuine reason not to listen to anything you say, you're going to continue to be dumbfounded when they don't simply drop what their doing and enforce your "revolution". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Okay, I'm going for a more constructive engagement now. Where exactly did you see politics going, Weiss? A repeat rolling of the same people? unlikely. Just think about it. Your other allies were going to be the next target. Hell, they even broadcasted that. So if MK > DT, Valhalla, etc. for you, then oh well. It is tangible and will happen. Consider MK a liability from now on. I know OsRavan wants to bury his head in the sand and not do the right thing, but I hope he reconsiders. I don't know any way he can possibly dress up the crap MK has pulled as a good thing. Edited February 21, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydian Way Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) If I may be so bold. The issue as I see it right now centers around the third point Roquentin makes. We have established that bros betrayed the trust of UPN in a rather unacceptable way. We have established that bos undertook questionable actions against RoK (OOC: Trying to break into their forums via an exploit). We have established that the Mushroom Kingdom had some kind of information pipeline out of the NSO. Okay, great. People have political wedge issues to use against the Kingdom. The issue now centers around the third point Roquentin makes. Number of upper tier nations. How many does MK have. Now many does Non Grata have. How many do the GOONS have. How many does Umbrella have. Can the Umbrella nations be peeled away? Can the MK-TOP ties be broken to remove the Project Mayhem nations from the equation. It centers around how to shrink the base of the Mushroom Kingdom and expand the base around Sparta. On the MK side you have some of the best fighters and nation building alliances on Bob. Also some of the centers of the treaty web. On the Spartan side you have some kind of nebulous collective of XX and SF nations that just lost a war. Whereas MK/Umbrella/Project Mayhem are viewed as active and strong alliances, many of the XX alliances were viewed as ghost ridden alliances. Alliances that failed to maintain proper war chests as a whole. Alliances like Sparta where they have 274 members, 31k ANS, but only 80 WRCs and poor aid slot usage. Begin OOC. A search for Spartan aid shows 320 offers before you reach the "expired" section. Some of those 320 are cancelled. With 274 members, assuming and average of 5 slots a nation you have 1370 Spartan aid slots in play. If you assume every aid transaction is Spartan to Spartan that means you're using 640 Spartan Aid slots out of 1370 in play. When you take into the account that some aid offers are between Spartans and non Spartans, that means that fewer than 640 aid slots are being used. So Sparta is using less than 50% of the aid slots to move rebuilding aid, sell tech, and buy tech. You can train people to click the fire nuke button, but it amounts to nothing their current treasury balance is $0.00 or they are underteched. End OOC. So when you deploy your message you ask people "Look at these damaging incidents. You should break away from the current power structure and its strong alliances to come join alliances that are widely viewed as inactive and weaker." This is a hard sell considering that the UPN appears to have forgiven MK, at least in public, and the NSO appears mildly annoyed but not annoyed enough to escalate anything publicly. The thing to do now is to prove the Spartans are capable of rearming. That they are active and capable of following economic procedures in peace time. Make it so if someone moves to join Sparta and that sphere, they are joining a sphere that appears to have a chance of victory. Currently further events like "Nagaski" will only lead to more derision. Make it so when you come back with your third expose you not only offer evidence against your enemies, but make your movement a strong one that is attractive to join. You have the nations in Sparta. You have the ties to other sizable alliances. Take the effort you put forth here and instead put it forth to auditing nations, to helping organize tech deals, to ensure people know how to sled and save properly. That will gain you more than any word typed here currently will. Edited February 21, 2012 by Hydian Way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 There is a specific reason for our low slot usage right now. It's a reorganization of aid and also some aid not coming through, which being upset about will likely be used against me hence my statement in the other thread. Nagasaki did happen. You just couldn't see it and the proper authorities have to investigate it. It also proved that bros had database access to NSO's forums and no information pipeline. Thanks for the advice, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyd3r Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329835882' post='2925117'] Because it's not only him. Most of your OWF posters more or less hate me. Flog, Rhyder, Crymson, and I don't want to have to list them all. Winter will be over, but Summer is coming. Ad portas!(MK) [/quote] Roq I don't hate you! I just hate all the repetitive crap you post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 [quote name='Scorponok' timestamp='1329829557' post='2925089'] All good things happen, when they are needed. (OOC: or so my parents always told me). [/quote] You don't have parents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Well, the other guys what they wanted. Hopefully they enjoy their victory. Avarice has no bounds, but I did say I was willing to sacrifice myself for the cause and my alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred von Tirpitz Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329894126' post='2925475'] Well, the other guys what they wanted. Hopefully they enjoy their victory. Avarice has no bounds, but I did say I was willing to sacrifice myself for the cause and my alliance. [/quote] What? You confused me with this. Explain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 I don't think it needs to be explained. Connect the dots. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTe0LK28npA&feature=related Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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