kriekfreak Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329995732' post='2926490'] Because I was trying to be conciliatory, so I resent being ignored. It's rather minor considering MK was the major issue. You guys came out to support them here. [/quote] Being one of few that actually responded to you a few times, I don't see what you did as conciliatory. I've had many former adversaries talk to me and hear me out and apologize for what I saw as what they did wrong. You did neither. It almost seemed as you didn't really want to hear us out and come together, it was more that you tried to absolve yourself from the perceived errors. I cannot really comment on the MK issue because I don't know the entire picture, but they are our allies and thus we will support them. Even if they do things wrong (not saying they have, but if they had, we would). The entire vibe you were giving to us, and the quickness of you lumping us on the same pile as others who (in your eyes) slighted you made us think you were out to get us and thus we went on the defensive. I think that's a normal response. It was also your first response when you came back and saw what has been said about you. So yeah I understand that you might felt slighted and wanted revenge, that's normal but you have to understand that it most often backfires, as it did in this case. I'm not sure if you understand and see this as having backfired, but normally people stop doing what they are doing when it doesn't have the results they aimed for and will try a different approach. You think you are alone in this, you think that all of your former friends are gone and hate you, you think you have noting more to lose. All of that is not true, there are still many, many people who respect you and like you for who you are. But you have to understand that that group is becoming slimmer and slimmer with the way you are acting now. I urge you to stop for a second and look back at what you have done in this past week(s) and see that the way you have acted did more harm to you than anything, what you are accusing MK of, did. Not because I 'risk' being logdumped on, but because it pains me to see you isolating yourself more and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 How am I isolating myself? The results of what I have done haven't shown up just yet. Up until this point, NSO was a tech farm for MK. They finally learned their "friends" weren't really friends at all. I didn't do anything as wrong as you tried to make it seem. You blame me for your war damages. MK does the same thing. I cry crocodile tears in both cases. No, none of them give a !@#$ about me, or they would have actually done something when I needed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329997001' post='2926501'] How am I isolating myself? The results of what I have done haven't shown up just yet. Up until this point, NSO was a tech farm for MK. They finally learned their "friends" weren't really friends at all.[/quote] NSO buys and sells tech with a lot of people, not just the Kingdom. Belittling them as a mere "tech farm" isn't going to win them to your cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yes, because most of their long-term deals weren't with you and your gov members didn't have access to their forums. I'm not belittling them. They have to sell tech because they got wrecked a lot. They always go all out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriekfreak Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329997001' post='2926501'] How am I isolating myself? The results of what I have done haven't shown up just yet. Up until this point, NSO was a tech farm for MK. They finally learned their "friends" weren't really friends at all. I didn't do anything as wrong as you tried to make it seem. You blame me for your war damages. MK does the same thing. I cry crocodile tears in both cases. No, none of them give a !@#$ about me, or they would have actually done something when I needed it. [/quote] It looks like I'm talking to a wall. I'm going to stop replying to you because it appears to be a waste of time. But let me get this straight. We were and are never scared of taking damages during war. The anger was more towards you sitting on your hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) I wasn't sitting on my hands. I was waiting for the biggest alliance to come out. Do I regret not hitting them sooner? Yes. That's about it though. It reminds me of NSO being upset with TOP/IRON for not attacking SF. I tried to point out the irony of your stance when combined with who you're allied to now, but nooo. Edited February 23, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 [quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1329986849' post='2926416'] If your treaties mean nothing and only realpolitik is relevant to anything, why sign treaties at all? [/quote] Yes, because that's exactly what I said. [quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1329987449' post='2926418'] Excuse me, what? [/quote] You're adorable. Regardless, JoshuaR spelled out the situation better than I could from my perspective. You have your answer, d/w/i little man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 I already debunked JoshuaR's claims when I was last in Umbrella. He is full of !@#$, essentially and a coward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leet Guy Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329993301' post='2926474'] I gave 1337 another chance and he refused to apologize. I wasn't going to grovel for it. It was it's over if you apologize for all the crap you've pulled. [/quote] You're a pathetic !@#$. I was fully willing to come hash out our differences, you're the one that passed on the opportunity. I only asked that a mutual friend be there to help us keep our cool if things got contentious, to which you declined and asked for unconditional apologies. $%&@ off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) [quote name='JoshuaR' timestamp='1329990266' post='2926442'] RE: Myth The truth of the matter is that everyone except Roquentin had zero interaction with MHA, so we were all wondering why we even had a treaty with you. Then the one contact we have in MHA (you), as JA tries to get in touch, goes off on us on CNTel and shares a confidential conversation with his bloc. And we are to believe that you held the Umbrella treaty higher than your Fark treaty? [/quote] I don't know where I'm supposed to be sorry for you. Our treaty was held in a higher regard than Fark's during Roquentins reign. It's not a belief, it's what was. You have your events out of order. I contacted JA because I doubt he would have actively sought me ought as soon as he was elected. The event where saying hello to JA or "confidential information," as some people think that is being [i]leaked [/i]to a bloc's high government channel by a now-member of Umbrella with the intent to sabotage XX-Umbrella relations was major is a joke and a post-hoc correction to a fairy tale. That said, you would be a liar if you said there was no effort at all put into "improving," what had been a very successful working relationship for the year prior. We sent people over and your own government ridiculed or were extraordinarily condescending when your government stated it wanted improved communication. [quote name='JoshuaR' timestamp='1329990266' post='2926442'] Even at that point, we were all very dedicated to making it work. Umbrella knew we'd be on the other side of the war from Sparta/MHA, and we explicitly stated such early and often. First of all, at that point we didn't believe our relationship merited an MDP-level treaty. [/quote] This actually was not made clear until long after. You all side-stepped around it and even after making what amounted to be pretty significant concessions in hopes of preserving our relationship you all !@#$ on it. Meanwhile, your other allies (see: Same treaty level, not that it matters, an ally is an ally,) !@#$ all over MHA and a couple even boldly asked that you cancel our treaty. Again, no cntel or anything yet. All of a sudden, our "treaty is under review," because you all wanted to position yourselves better for the war. While I understand this from a real politic view, the way you did it was absolutely terrible in execution. You made up excuses, ranging from Karma, Cable, Fark, the leaking of Bastion (you've got to be kidding?) perceived poor activity/membership and basically anything you could . It was at this juncture I knew that you all had made up your mind up. A little after, it was leaked that I had incogneto predicted you would leave MHA and Sparta out to dry and that Roq would roll over in his grave if he knew what was going on (Hey, looks like I was right?) it was just a more convinient excuse. Hell, I offered to resign but JA said it was fine. I still contend JA had his mind made before he was elected. [quote name='JoshuaR' timestamp='1329990266' post='2926442'] Additionally, based on the above, we didn't know that an MHA treaty could last that type of strain (opposite sides of war), but because we held Sparta in such high regard, we didn't want them to feel we were alienating them and dropping their XX partner, so we also felt a sense of guilt at canceling MHA before a war. MHA came in full force on our forums, and through the interaction, we definitely felt our relationship was not at the MDP level. We knew we couldn't fight for you in the coming war, but at the same time, we hoped to salvage any relationship remaining and hoped MHA would accept an ODP until we could see if there was hope for the relationship. The downgrade was really the best case scenario, and that wasn't because we didn't want to be tied by treaty obligations (our treaties are non-chaining anyway, and clearly the other side of the war took supremacy). If someone randomly attacked MHA with the ODP, we would be defending them. The downgrade was simply a result of a poor relationship on both gov-gov and member-member levels, with the hope of rekindling what once was.[/quote] Semantics. You didn't want to be allied to MHA because it was allied to Fark. We made countless offers of working with you including even attempting to work with MK as suggested by JA, only to have the first query be told that government members of MK wanted MHA disbanded. We made it clear that we would work with any scenario possible and instead of meeting us one step away you decided to take three backwards, turn, and start running. You remained allied to Sparta for as long as possible in hopes they would capitulate and leave XX, which they did actually have thoughts of doing for a short-second but for their own rational reasons declined and were immediately picked apart by your allies. Yet, you, their MDoAP partner remained silent. [quote name='JoshuaR' timestamp='1329990266' post='2926442'] As far as Sparta, I will admit our relationship with them was stronger, and for that very reason we were worried about what cost would come about from a war on the other side. We felt a sense that we owed them for backing us in the previous war, and we just hoped that they could see our forced decision for what it was and after the war still be willing to be friends with us, hopefully never on opposite sides of a battlefield again.[/QUOTE] For all the talk of you owing people to our faces and that being the reason for your FA change, you sort of have no ground to stand on with Sparta. I don't know how you're going to rationalize that one. [quote name='JoshuaR' timestamp='1329990266' post='2926442'] During the war, you should have seen the internal heat that built up as we saw our XX allies getting crushed and piled upon. Umbrellans were genuinely angry and even ranting and yelling in allied embassies about what was going on. We weren't happily sitting there watching our allies get destroyed around us thinking, "Oh what a perfect Doomhouse/PB world we have created." No, we were straining relations ALL around because we didn't fight for one side, and we were arguing with the other side. It was already bad enough for many that we refused to attack treaty partners of Sparta and MHA. It's not good to see your friends beat up, even if they are allies of your enemies. [/quote] Sardonic made claims that me not leading MHA would've changed the political reality of Umbrella and MHA, but that's simply an assumption that has about merit as Sardonic supposively being able to speak for himself, as is shown later he still can not do. He then defends your claim saying that the political reality explains your actions, but that MHA somehow had other options on the table,. With that gaping hole of logic aside, his other claim was that I am responsible for a downgrade of a treaty that had it stood would not have been ignored as Sparta's. I know I'm supposed to be a good boy and just nod my head but I have an aversion to !@#$%^&*. [quote name='JoshuaR' timestamp='1329990266' post='2926442'] You're damn right we tried to make sure MHA and Sparta got white peace, if that was the only thing we could even attempt to do. [/quote] I'm really confused why they wouldn't have received white peace anyway. I certainly hope they were planning on fighting until they received it if reps ever became an option. Hell, you were the ones attacking their MDoAP partners for defending them through an ODP with ODN, an alliance that essentially pulled a double reverse flank maneuver on Sparta and from by my account seemed to have backed away from a mutual understanding with Sparta to pre-empt MHA. [quote name='JoshuaR' timestamp='1329990266' post='2926442'] I really see no other stance Umbrella could have taken in the previous war. I wish everyone could have been happy. I really do. [/quote] So do I. There were options available, and even when they were rejected there was still a better way of doing things that wasn't done. I guess my problem is that I actually tried to find solutions. You chose to not even bother. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPcyTyilmYY&t=3m26s"]http://www.youtube.c...TyilmYY&t=3m26s[/url] Inb4 x girlfriend remark. Edited February 23, 2012 by IYIyTh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaR Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 [quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1330031406' post='2926962'] I don't know where I'm supposed to be sorry for you. Our treaty was held in a higher regard than Fark's during Roquentins reign. It's not a belief, it's what was. You have your events out of order. I contacted JA because I doubt he would have actively sought me ought as soon as he was elected. The event where saying hello to JA or "confidential information," as some people think that is being [i]leaked [/i]to a bloc's high government channel by a now-member of Umbrella with the intent to sabotage XX-Umbrella relations was major is a joke and a post-hoc correction to a fairy tale.[/quote] Ah, I thought you meant up until we considered canceling, etc. re the treaty being held in higher regard than Fark's. If you meant earlier, I can believe that, sure, but I don't know either way since I hadn't yet joined Umbrella. As far as leaking confidential information. Look, I've known JA since he joined MFO years ago. I trust him over you, plain and simple. And I can read the QnA in MHA's embassy to see how that discussion went, and I still believe Umbrella. [quote] That said, you would be a liar if you said there was no effort at all put into "improving," what had been a very successful working relationship for the year prior. We sent people over and your own government ridiculed or were extraordinarily condescending when your government stated it wanted improved communication. [/quote] Agreed, you sent people over, though again most of that contact was through you, but that's fine. As far as ridiculing you guys. That's absolutely not true. I'm even reading through the embassy now to double check, and except for maybe ReytheGreat once or twice, we were asking important and serious questions without any ridicule. Then Gon went crazy because he thought we weren't doing enough to curtail MK, and people reacted to that. I'm not sure what you're talking about, otherwise. The only time anyone started getting really exasperated with you besides reacting to Gon was after we had voted to downgrade the treaty and you wanted us to reconsider... [quote] This is actually was not made clear until long after. You all side-stepped around it and even after making what amounted to be pretty significant concessions in hopes of preserving our relationship you all !@#$ on it. Meanwhile, your other allies (see: Same treaty level, not that it matters, an ally is an ally,) !@#$ all over MHA and a couple even boldly asked that you cancel our treaty. Again, no cntel or anything yet. All of a sudden, our "treaty is under review," because you all wanted to position yourselves better for the war. While I understand this from a real politic view, the way you did it was absolutely terrible in execution. You made up excuses, ranging from Karma, Cable, Fark, the leaking of Bastion (you've got to be kidding?) perceived poor activity/membership and basically anything you could . It was at this juncture I knew that you all had made up your mind up. A little after, it was leaked that I had incogneto predicted you would leave MHA and Sparta out to dry and that Roq would roll over in his grave if he knew what was going on (Hey, looks like I was right?) it was just a more convinient excuse. Hell, I offered to resign but JA said it was fine. I still contend JA had his mind made before he was elected. Semantics. You didn't want to be allied to MHA because it was allied to Fark. We made countless offers of working with you including even attempting to work with MK as suggested by JA, only to have the first query be told that government members of MK wanted MHA disbanded. We made it clear that we would work with any scenario possible and instead of meeting us one step away you decided to take three backwards, turn, and start running. You remained allied to Sparta for as long as possible in hopes they would capitulate and leave XX, which they did actually have thoughts of doing for a short-second but for their own rational reasons declined and were immediately picked apart by your allies. Yet, you, their MDoAP partner remained silent. For all the talk of you owing people to our faces and that being the reason for your FA change, you sort of have no ground to stand on with Sparta. I don't know how you're going to rationalize that one. Sardonic made claims that me not leading MHA would've changed the political reality of Umbrella and MHA, but that's simply an assumption that has about merit as Sardonic supposively being able to speak for himself, as is shown later he still can not do. He then defends your claim saying that the political reality explains your actions, but that MHA somehow had other options on the table,. With that gaping hole of logic aside, his other claim was that I am responsible for a downgrade of a treaty that had it stood would not have been ignored as Sparta's. I know I'm supposed to be a good boy and just nod my head but I have an aversion to !@#$%^&*.[/quote] Honestly, we wanted to be allied to MHA, but we could tell by our previous interaction and through the QnA and after your specific actions that you owned up to in the QnA (clearly now you take all of that back), that our relationship was not on the MDP level. So we downgraded. If we didn't want to be allied to you/Fark/XX, we would have outright canceled the damn treaty. As for Sparta, we really wanted to keep that relationship going. We DID feel that we owed them. There was so much love for Sparta that lots of people thought that even though EVERY OTHER ALLY except MHA/Sparta were on that side, we should have been on your side of the war (sorry, MHA's side of the war, IRON was on the other side and you are in IRON now). So if we didn't want to be allied to Fark, why would we have tried so hard to keep our Sparta treaty? I don't get your logic. The simple and straightforward explanation for our actions is that we wanted to keep all of our allies, we wanted to please all of our allies (impossible), and we wanted to make sure that Sparta and MHA didn't get crapped on during the war. Unfortunately, we couldn't really control how many people jumped to pile onto those two alliances. All we could do was try to convince both parties to take peace (admitting to losing or not), and trying to influence the attacking parties to not ask for reps. That was really all we could do, and that was what we did. In retrospect, maybe it would have been better to cancel both treaties, but I don't think so. We still hold an ODP with MHA that maybe can keep that relationship alive. And if not for recent events in Sparta, we would have had a better chance at keeping that going, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) [quote name='JoshuaR' timestamp='1330034323' post='2926995'] Ah, I thought you meant up until we considered canceling, etc. re the treaty being held in higher regard than Fark's. If you meant earlier, I can believe that, sure, but I don't know either way since I hadn't yet joined Umbrella. As far as leaking confidential information. Look, I've known JA since he joined MFO years ago. I trust him over you, plain and simple. And I can read the QnA in MHA's embassy to see how that discussion went, and I still believe Umbrella. [/QUOTE] I wasn't in government for over a month when that conversation happened. In fact, I !@#$%*ed JA out because it was the first time he had been over to MHA in his entire term to our forums despite preaching communication was a problem. [quote name='JoshuaR' timestamp='1330034323' post='2926995'] Agreed, you sent people over, though again most of that contact was through you, but that's fine. As far as ridiculing you guys. That's absolutely not true. I'm even reading through the embassy now to double check, and except for maybe ReytheGreat once or twice, we were asking important and serious questions without any ridicule. Then Gon went crazy because he thought we weren't doing enough to curtail MK, and people reacted to that. I'm not sure what you're talking about, otherwise. The only time anyone started getting really exasperated with you besides reacting to Gon was after we had voted to downgrade the treaty and you wanted us to reconsider...[/quote] Nation Ruler, Reythegreat, quite a few actually. Even more telling was the lack of conversation from those who said they wanted more. And I'm supposed to convince people that this is [i]wanted [/i]interaction? Gon just reacted on what I knew because he knew just as well as I did what you were up to. And you didn't take kindly for him telling you how he felt about it. I don't take anything back I said in the context that I said it. I meant every word at the time. It's not like I'm going to ignore what came next. [quote name='JoshuaR' timestamp='1330034323' post='2926995'] Honestly, we wanted to be allied to MHA, but we could tell by our previous interaction and through the QnA and after your specific actions that you owned up to in the QnA (clearly now you take all of that back), that our relationship was not on the MDP level. So we downgraded. If we didn't want to be allied to you/Fark/XX, we would have outright canceled the damn treaty. [/quote] I want to be a billionaire, it doesn't mean it's going to happen. You made no effort. As for cancelling! You almost did by a whopping one vote. A whole one vote. Get out. You were more concerned that it would be seen for what it was. [quote name='JoshuaR' timestamp='1330034323' post='2926995'] As for Sparta, we really wanted to keep that relationship going. We DID feel that we owed them. There was so much love for Sparta that lots of people thought that even though EVERY OTHER ALLY except MHA/Sparta were on that side, we should have been on your side of the war (sorry, MHA's side of the war, IRON was on the other side and you are in IRON now). So if we didn't want to be allied to Fark, why would we have tried so hard to keep our Sparta treaty? I don't get your logic. [/quote] Here, let me break it down to you: Your treaty with Sparta has proven to have been all along, worthless. Even after they canned Roquentin you dropped them. Your MDoAP with Sparta was as good as the ODP with MHA was and is now. [quote name='JoshuaR' timestamp='1330034323' post='2926995'] The simple and straightforward explanation for our actions is that we wanted to keep all of our allies, we wanted to please all of our allies (impossible), and we wanted to make sure that Sparta and MHA didn't get crapped on during the war. Unfortunately, we couldn't really control how many people jumped to pile onto those two alliances. All we could do was try to convince both parties to take peace (admitting to losing or not), and trying to influence the attacking parties to not ask for reps. That was really all we could do, and that was what we did.[/quote] You have more leverage then you care to admit, you just chose not to. You could have done a whole lot more and you didn't. I know you want a pat on the back for not giving to your other allies' ridiculous demands but just because you only aquiesced to some of them doesn't get you a gold star for effort. [quote name='JoshuaR' timestamp='1330034323' post='2926995'] In retrospect, maybe it would have been better to cancel both treaties, but I don't think so. We still hold an ODP with MHA that maybe can keep that relationship alive. And if not for recent events in Sparta, we would have had a better chance at keeping that going, too. [/quote] Maybe if the wind blows and the power structure finds you in a bit of trouble you might be able to use their help, right? I'm still unsure of why you speak of recent events when all things considered you have more reason to cancel on MK over "recent events," than Sparta, yet you remain allied. Edited February 23, 2012 by IYIyTh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaR Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) I've said everything I needed to say. Anything more is just repeating myself, as you have already done. At this point, I'll let others judge for themselves. Edited February 23, 2012 by JoshuaR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 [quote name='JoshuaR' timestamp='1330035971' post='2927014'] I've said everything I needed to say. Anything more is just repeating myself, as you have already done. At this point, I'll let others judge for themselves. [/quote] So just for the record, do you or don't you agree with Sardonic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) JoshuaR has no balls and thinks appeasing smaller alliances and never doing anything on Umbrella's own is a meaningful existence for an alliance. Umbrella has more reason to cancel on MK for recent events. Instead one minor offense by me lead to the Sparta relationship, which I had preserved going down the toilet. They have no loyalty, except to selective treaties I signed. At this point if my proposal has been rejected, I would hope the decent members leave because it isn't really Umbrella anymore. Edited February 24, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329997001' post='2926501'] How am I isolating myself? The results of what I have done haven't shown up just yet. Up until this point, NSO was a tech farm for MK. They finally learned their "friends" weren't really friends at all. I didn't do anything as wrong as you tried to make it seem. You blame me for your war damages. MK does the same thing. I cry crocodile tears in both cases. No, none of them give a !@#$ about me, or they would have actually done something when I needed it. [/quote] I don't like to rehash old issues but I just want to clarify: The people blaming you for damage we took is a minority, and many of us vocally disagreed with that criticism. Most of the frustration with you was over other things. Edit: Taking out details because I don't feel like getting into a debate about these "other things". Edited February 24, 2012 by Azaghul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) Except I thought Natan and I both explained it at the time, that no one was online for the SNAFU thing and I was annoyed since I already bailed TOP out several times. I didn't say MK and NG are stat huggers but they'll whine if they can find some way to pin it on you. Ardus has admitted MK had a lot of eager beavers. Given one of the things I did was try to get people to declare in several instances to try to beat MK's overactive upper tier to the punch, you're talking to the wrong guy. In addition, we had to attack TOOL's dudes because TOP didn't want to and you told TOP not to declare above 90k NS on NADC and I was given very short notice with that. Yes, I was worried about people like Fark and TOP getting huge at our expense, basically. I was very annoyed with Fark's behavior during the war and given TOP would ultimately be tied at the hip with you, I saw it harming our ability to influence things down the line. It turns out I overestimated Fark and they were a paper tiger that liked to scratch at the real predators for no reason. Edited February 24, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 NG doesn't whine. You've never been in a coalition with NG high gov (Steve/KX/Myself) so calm down Roq & get your facts straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) arexes was high up for a long time, like I already said. Bigger fish to fry though. NG is a fairly minor issue compared to actual traitors. Daimos: it's also important to remember I was being trashed before in the original everything must die thread by rafa nadal. Honestly, Myth, I wasn't in a position to do anything about it and when I figured out who you were I told them not to do anything with it because it'd prevent you from posting more. I apologize for screwing you and Sparta over, but I had real reasons for doing it(by not doing anything, rather than active involvement) Edited February 24, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1330043024' post='2927103'] Yes, I was worried about people like Fark and TOP getting huge at our expense, basically. I was very annoyed with Fark's behavior during the war and given TOP would ultimately be tied at the hip with you, I saw it harming our ability to influence things down the line. [/quote] You mean you saw the increasing TOP-MK relationship as harmful to your ability to influence MK in any direction you wish to go. Therefore you tried to pawn more people on us rather than taking them yourself, I don't really have a problem with that since we aren't your ally, however it was only a handful of nations you pitched a fit about. Seems kinda odd. Edited February 24, 2012 by Feanor Noldorin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1330048431' post='2927175'] You actually had an opportunity to be an influence in TOP and passed it up. Also, to somehow think that taking on a handful of targets would lead to us closing the aNS gap between us and Umbrella is ridiculous. After BiPolar we weren't going to reach those levels again. [/quote] It's if we fought everyone TOP was supposed to take on and the alliances we weren't getting any additional support on. I didn't pass it up. I asked for a week to straighten out some stuff. That's all. I'm not sure why you guys wanted to go heavy into some MK thing. That was your decision. Anyway, I don't really care anymore about that specifically. I don't hold anything against TOP other than its treaty with MK. Umbrella, on the other hand, is a mass of traitors. Edited February 24, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1330047324' post='2927162'] Honestly, Myth, I wasn't in a position to do anything about it and when I figured out who you were I told them not to do anything with it because it'd prevent you from posting more. I apologize for screwing you and Sparta over, but I had real reasons for doing it(by not doing anything, rather than active involvement) [/quote] Yeah but I'm more interested of how little impact this actually had on the relationship, as Sardonic believed this not happening would have reversed the course Umbrella had already been on for quite some time and that the treaty would have been activated. Which is just pretty much a blatant lie and falls in on itself when he uses the counter that Umbrella's actions were sanctioned because of the political reality of their situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 It was just something to nail you on. LIke um the ooc: Polish radio set-up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yevgeni Luchenkov Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) Just so we're clear, as I'm trying to follow you. You are not trying to kill NG-GOONS-MK anymore but want to focus on killing Umbrella instead? The amusing part is that, if you are really taking that endeavor, you are going to have to handle the web you created yourself. Edited February 25, 2012 by Yevgeni Luchenkov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) Oh, no. I said MK and Umbrella were tied for #1. The Mushroom Kingdom Co-Propserity Sphere remains a target though. Umbrella is just not very intelligent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTTwlAT_AwU&ob=av3e You realize ardus said the same thing wrt GOD, right? Yevgeni, you should like most of what I say and embrace me, for I am kind. "And there is nobody from whom I want beauty as much as from you who are powerful: let your kindness be your final self-conquest." Edited February 25, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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