TehChron Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 [quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1322672252' post='2857059'] i think a legend would be someone who is no longer here whose actions still echo down to present day. if you're still here it's hard to be a legend. [/quote] Yes, we keep getting back to that. Which is why the bar is raised so high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellAngel Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Syzygy. The guy influenced serveral game updates and was an epic leader politically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Fool Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 [quote name='Olaf Styke' timestamp='1322667725' post='2857025']I don't know how wide or narrow the field should be in the end, but excluding people like Tulak off-hand sets a good precedent for doing the same to virtually everyone else you've listed. When it comes down to it, they've all had a fairly significant hand in the making of CN as it is today. Ultimately they were all cogs in the machines of state, and none of the events they had roles in were entirely of their own making or under their control.[/quote]Access and proximity to power alone do not make a legend. Nor, as a matter of fact, does longevity. What defines a legend, in essence, is enduring popularity, or enduring infamy, tempered by notable decisions/events/accomplishments. Why is Sponge a legend? He was memorable personality who acted as a frontman for the Orders, WUT, ~, Polar and, to an extent, Vox at the height of their power. He was also clearly associated with their policies and successes because of his position (i.e. he was in a role where he could legitimately be connected to them), his self-promotion (i.e. he took credit for them) and his prolific support of them (i.e. he vehemently and consistently defended them publicly). Why is Tulak Hord not a legend? Well, what has he done? Led MDC and Sparta. What have those alliances done? Been on the right side of history and that's about it. Fair characterization? No but I think indicative of the role Tulak has played publicly. He did not lead great war coalitions , nor did he play a public role in the rise or fall of the Continuum. He has not started wars. He does not posture. Now does this mean Tulak has had no effect? No. He may have been very influential behind the scenes. But private influence does not lead to public accolades or condemnation and without those it is impossible to judge his career as exceptional. Not to mention, of course, that it is much harder for him to be popular/infamous, and thus well remembered, by people outside of his alliances and their allies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subcomandante VL Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Ironically nobody's mentioned Admin. Truly a legend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 [quote name='VladimirLenin' timestamp='1322693225' post='2857302'] Ironically nobody's mentioned Admin. Truly a legend. [/quote] Yeah, a legendary piece of hey where'd my nation go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subcomandante VL Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1322695482' post='2857330'] Yeah, a legendary piece of hey where'd my nation go? [/quote] itisamystery.jpg :v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Styke Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 [quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1322681893' post='2857183'] Access and proximity to power alone do not make a legend. Nor, as a matter of fact, does longevity. What defines a legend, in essence, is enduring popularity, or enduring infamy, tempered by notable decisions/events/accomplishments. Why is Sponge a legend? He was memorable personality who acted as a frontman for the Orders, WUT, ~, Polar and, to an extent, Vox at the height of their power. He was also clearly associated with their policies and successes because of his position (i.e. he was in a role where he could legitimately be connected to them), his self-promotion (i.e. he took credit for them) and his prolific support of them (i.e. he vehemently and consistently defended them publicly). Why is Tulak Hord not a legend? Well, what has he done? Led MDC and Sparta. What have those alliances done? Been on the right side of history and that's about it. Fair characterization? No but I think indicative of the role Tulak has played publicly. He did not lead great war coalitions , nor did he play a public role in the rise or fall of the Continuum. He has not started wars. He does not posture. Now does this mean Tulak has had no effect? No. He may have been very influential behind the scenes. But private influence does not lead to public accolades or condemnation and without those it is impossible to judge his career as exceptional. Not to mention, of course, that it is much harder for him to be popular/infamous, and thus well remembered, by people outside of his alliances and their allies. [/quote] No offense, but I'm tasting a lot of bias here. Our opinions of who played a significant role in what are obviously coloured by our histories in different alliances. You say 'what has Sparta ever done?' and 'when have they ever played a significant role in anything?', conveniently neglecting the fact that Sparta was essentially THE binding link between SF and C&G during Bi-Polar, and that, regardless of how much hate it gets on the forums, it has never punched below it's weight in any war. Just because Sparta doesn't tend to take brash unilateral action, because it's political moves are tempered more by caution and a concern for the implications of it's actions on it's diplomatic agreements, doesn't mean Sparta hasn't played an enormous role in shaping CN. Conversely I can accuse Polar of being just as insignificant as you claim Sparta to be. I was in NpO during the inter-war period and GW III, and I saw Sponge in action. He never struck me as extraordinary in his political or diplomatic talents, though he was much more visible than people like Tulak. The same can be said of NpO being a power player, an alliance who seem, outwardly, to have done nothing but follow their bully of a bigger brother around while he extorts the rest of CN with GOONS, the weird kid who likes to burn ants. Now obviously you've spent time in Polar, and I've spent time in Sparta, and we're both much more qualified to judge our own alliances, having a better understanding of them, than we are to judge each others... but that is precisely my point. What seems a significant aspect of CN history, a significant personage in CN history to you or I, may easily fall under the radar to anyone who isn't intimately connected to them. Sponge and Polar, Tulak and Sparta, both have had plenty of influence on history, but neither stand out as undeniable legends. Sponge gets the edge for his being more boisterous, and therefore more memorable to the community at large, but not by so much that excluding one doesn't call in to question the validity of the other as candidate. This isn't as straight forward as it seems. I think a system needs to be designed to evaluate candidates in their respective categories of merit, it's the only way we're going to be able to agree (for the most part) on who goes in and who stays out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 If you're really going to try and rationalize the viewpoint of Sponge being relatively irrelevant in order to boost the image of your favored candidate (Tulak Horde) who is about the same level of infamy/accomplishments as Zhadum, then yeah...You need to take a step back. Sponge's impact isn't limited to the NpO and the results of their policy (glue binding the continuum together? Are you serious when you state that as a legendary accomplishment?), but his actions, his personality, his very presence and the way folks were forced to build their strategies and policies around Sponge are what put him up there. Seriously trying to bring him down to Tulak Horde's level is disingenuous on your part. List his accomplishments if youre so desperate to get him recognized, don't make absurd arguments, it'll only lead to responses like this one rather than being taken seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Styke Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) [quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1322704450' post='2857437'] If you're really going to try and rationalize the viewpoint of Sponge being relatively irrelevant in order to boost the image of your favored candidate (Tulak Horde) who is about the same level of infamy/accomplishments as Zhadum, then yeah...You need to take a step back. Sponge's impact isn't limited to the NpO and the results of their policy (glue binding the continuum together? Are you serious when you state that as a legendary accomplishment?), but his actions, his personality, his very presence and the way folks were forced to build their strategies and policies around Sponge are what put him up there. Seriously trying to bring him down to Tulak Horde's level is disingenuous on your part. List his accomplishments if youre so desperate to get him recognized, don't make absurd arguments, it'll only lead to responses like this one rather than being taken seriously. [/quote] Who built their strategies around Sponge? Give me an example of a strategy or a policy built around Sponge. I would like an archive of logs from different alliance leaders planning out their diplomacy based on what Sponge will do please. Must include at least once reference to 'But what if Sponge does... [insert brilliant political move here]". Could we have a few less ridiculous assertions, please? Sponge was a powerful alliance leader. So was Tulak. There are quite a number of others who fall in to the same category. Acting like Sponge is somehow head and shoulders above the rest of the worthy candidates... please. Grow up. Less animosity, more dialogue. Edited December 1, 2011 by Olaf Styke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 tulak is #1 all other opinions are biased trash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 [quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1322666750' post='2857016'] It's people like Xiph, Ivan, Moo, Grub, Crymson, Moo-Cows, Archon and even Sardonic () that shaped this world. [/quote] Umm what? If Sardonic lead any alliance besides GOONS no one would even know who he was. Could you please point to something Sardonic has done that has "shaped the world". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Styke Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1322709912' post='2857538'] tulak is #1 all other opinions are biased trash [/quote] Disagree. At best he's #8... at BEST. Doesn't mean he doesn't deserve consideration. Edited December 1, 2011 by Olaf Styke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Olaf Styke' timestamp='1322710782' post='2857558'] Disagree. At best he's #8... at BEST. Doesn't mean he doesn't deserve consideration. [/quote] Yes but you just made a ridiculously long-winded argument for why he is the equal of Sponge. [quote]Who built their strategies around Sponge? Give me an example of a strategy or a policy built around Sponge. I would like an archive of logs from different alliance leaders planning out their diplomacy based on what Sponge will do please. Must include at least once reference to 'But what if Sponge does... [insert brilliant political move here]". Could we have a few less ridiculous assertions, please? Sponge was a powerful alliance leader. So was Tulak. There are quite a number of others who fall in to the same category. Acting like Sponge is somehow head and shoulders above the rest of the worthy candidates... please. Grow up. Less animosity, more dialogue.[/quote] Now if you want an example of people planning around Sponge's actions and Sponge's impact, well then... http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Unjust_War http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Moldavi_Rebellion http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Drinking_Buddies http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/BLEU http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Pacifica-Polaris_Dispute http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/War_of_the_Coalition Aaaand finally, http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Electron_Sponge Now before you go talking smack about how terribly immature I am for pointing out how absurd your argument is, you need to sit down, be objective, look at things rationally, and finally...[b]get owned, fool[/b]. Tulak Horde is no Electron Sponge. I'll say it again: [i]Tulak Horde is no Electron Sponge[/i], even putting the two in the same category is a colossal disservice to what Sponge and other alliance leaders of his caliber have accomplished over the years. That's the end of the debate. [quote]Grow up.[/quote]Sheesh. The sheer U MAD is palpable coming off of you. They're called "Legends" for a reason. Not just anyone can be one. Edited December 1, 2011 by TehChron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) Always second fiddle to Doitzel hahahahaha. Thanks for the mentions by page two. I think some of you got too analytical. A person doesn't necessarily have to have had a huge impact to be a legend; for example, Comrade Vader--who didn't do much--was banned before I ever started paying attention to the OWF, but struck fear in the hearts of many, has antics I still recount to newbs, and was infamous enough to be word-filtered for years. I guess I'd say the list of legends is longer than a hypothetical "most influential" list--or, maybe not longer, but not structured/ranked the same. I'd concur with Doitzel, and many others already mentioned. Edited December 1, 2011 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriekfreak Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1322710186' post='2857545'] Umm what? If Sardonic lead any alliance besides GOONS no one would even know who he was. Could you please point to something Sardonic has done that has "shaped the world". [/quote] I think you give Sardonic too few credits. Even though I was jokingly saying Sardonic, he did have an impact and shaped our world. Now I wouldn't call him a legend but he did infact went in against the rest of the world which was also why GOONS were so disliked for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potato Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 ctrl+F: potato :eng99: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1322718895' post='2857826'] Always second fiddle to Doitzel hahahahaha. Thanks for the mentions by page two. I think some of you got too analytical. A person doesn't necessarily have to have had a huge impact to be a legend; for example, Comrade Vader--who didn't do much--was banned before I ever started paying attention to the OWF, but struck fear in the hearts of many, has antics I still recount to newbs, and was infamous enough to be word-filtered for years. I guess I'd say the list of legends is longer than a hypothetical "most influential" list--or, maybe not longer, but not structured/ranked the same. I'd concur with Doitzel, and many others already mentioned. [/quote] I don't remember doing anything but laughing at Comrade Vader. And not even in the intentional, trying-to-provoke-you sort of way. But to be honest, I can't recall a whole helluva lot about him so I'm not sure either way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattski133 Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 [quote name='potato' timestamp='1322762643' post='2858280'] ctrl+F: potato :eng99: [/quote] Templar. For Legendarily absolving me of a debt of 5000 tech. magnanimous if nothing else. //we're talking about that kind of legend here right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1322710186' post='2857545'] Umm what? If Sardonic lead any alliance besides GOONS no one would even know who he was. Could you please point to something Sardonic has done that has "shaped the world". [/quote] Damn you for making me toot my own horn. 1. Doomhouse was explicitly my idea. 2. My reaching out to VE diplomatically laid out some critical groundwork for PB. 3. Let's see you bring back an alliance that's been dead for two years and make it successful. Edited December 1, 2011 by Sardonic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Greenberg Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) This is a list based on the Hegemony era to present date. Didn't experiance pre-Continuum. 1.) Grub 2.) Archon 3.) Moo Cows 4.) Doitzel 5.) Crymson 6.) Electron Sponge 7.) Xiphosis 8.) Ardus That's all I got. Edited December 1, 2011 by Ryan Greenberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1322775013' post='2858471'] Damn you for making me toot my own horn. 1. Doomhouse was explicitly my idea. 2. My reaching out to VE diplomatically laid out some critical groundwork for PB. 3. Let's see you bring back an alliance that's been dead for two years and make it successful. [/quote] Ooo You got MK to resign treaties that were already there GREAT JOB! VE already had treaties with FOK and Umbrella. Very impressive! What would they have done without you to plan those treaties in advance for them! Congrats on forming an alliance that got a lot of hate. That's definitely legendary! Speaking of that, I'll add Arnea, Altheus, and whoever the hell founded Invicta to the list of legends. The only thing you've done is sucked the &#$@ of whoever was in power, while !@#$%-ing out of wars. That's not legendary. You may be a powerful alliance leader for now, but you have not "shaped the world". Edited December 2, 2011 by Omniscient1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir Stukov II Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 [quote name='potato' timestamp='1322762643' post='2858280'] ctrl+F: potato :eng99: [/quote] I will consider you a legend if you consider me a legend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1322787376' post='2858683'] Ooo You got MK to resign treaties that were already there GREAT JOB! VE already had treaties with FOK and Umbrella. Very impressive! What would they have done without you to plan those treaties in advance for them! Congrats on forming an alliance that got a lot of hate. That's definitely legendary! Speaking of that, I'll add Arnea, Altheus, and whoever the hell founded Invicta to the list of legends. The only thing you've done is sucked the &#$@ of whoever was in power, while !@#$%-ing out of wars. That's not legendary. You may be a powerful alliance leader for now, but you have not "shaped the world". [/quote] Wow, look at this guy, he's OOC angry. What a toughie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1322788878' post='2858700'] Wow, look at this guy, he's OOC angry. What a toughie. [/quote] I'm FURIOUS! RAWR! (did I scare you? ) Edited December 2, 2011 by Omniscient1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1322787376' post='2858683'] Ooo You got MK to resign treaties that were already there GREAT JOB! VE already had treaties with FOK and Umbrella. Very impressive! What would they have done without you to plan those treaties in advance for them! Congrats on forming an alliance that got a lot of hate. That's definitely legendary! Speaking of that, I'll add Arnea, Altheus, and whoever the hell founded Invicta to the list of legends. The only thing you've done is sucked the &#$@ of whoever was in power, while !@#$%-ing out of wars. That's not legendary. You may be a powerful alliance leader for now, but you have not "shaped the world". [/quote] You seem mad good sir. Regardless, you're ultimately correct, I'm not worthy of being called a legend. Yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.