Leet Guy Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='Alexander Kerensky' timestamp='1319553372' post='2832072'] NSO: Unconditional Surrender [/quote] Oh boy, this is going to be fun. Didn't know Ramirus had joined the Legion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='Alexander Kerensky' timestamp='1319552131' post='2832069'] Edit: Made to correct to what was offered more clear to everyone as my terminology is for modern terms based on current political conflict and not the current war between Tetris-Legion. Romano's post below contains the original term and my post below that explains the meaning there-of. [/quote] Better, I promise the unconditional surrender idea would have ended horribly for you. Also Romano, that's new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Kerensky Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 I made the error when typing it out both here and in the logs Friday, I had wondered why there had been so much fuss over the modern term when it was used and the need to explain it out as without conditions. Though through my error I am sure that is the only item that will be relayed in the posts below, as they will not read my correction nor its meaning. I am sure much fun will be had of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heggo Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 At one point in the whole history of mankind has Unconditional Surrender meant "Surrender without any worry that we'll demand things from you"? Does Legion really think they're in a place to demand surrender? Do they really think we would surrender to someone that barely even knows what the terms they're attempting to specify are? Cripes, we're going to have to give y'all a viceroy just so we'll have someone competent enough to negotiate with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varianz Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='Alexander Kerensky' timestamp='1319556852' post='2832091'] I made the error when typing it out both here and in the logs Friday, I had wondered why there had been so much fuss over the modern term when it was used and the need to explain it out as without conditions. Though through my error I am sure that is the only item that will be relayed in the posts below, as they will not read my correction nor its meaning. I am sure much fun will be had of course. [/quote] This isn't even believable, since at a point only a few days before you'd made clear that you wanted to ask for [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=106175&view=findpost&p=2831879"]reps[/url]. That's a condition, fyi. Now you back down in public because you realize that you really, really overreached pushing for that kind of surrender. Anyways, as I told you in query during the talks Friday, we're not looking to end this yet. We showed up to those talks because some random person queried a bunch of our members (including a retired gov member lol) asking to join a channel for "moderated talks". I think I made our position fairly clear about 20 seconds in: [quote][21:21] <~andyt2k> Alexander and Lowgain are the centre of this, so how do things stand with Legion and Tetris peace talks [21:22] <@Alexander[Legion]> When ever Tetris is wants the war to end all they have to do is surrender and we can talk. 01[21:22] <@Varianz> well this has been fun lol[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1319557431' post='2832096'] Anyways, as I told you in query during the talks Friday, we're not looking to end this yet. We showed up to those talks because some random person queried a bunch of our members (including a retired gov member lol) asking to join a channel for "moderated talks". I think I made our position fairly clear about 20 seconds in: [/quote] Those talks were pretty amusing. Seems odd that Legion would need to outsource negotiators from LoSS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leet Guy Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 "Surrender and [then] we can talk" Ahahahaha. What we're you saying about misusing Unconditional Surrender? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Kerensky Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='heggo' timestamp='1319557287' post='2832094'] At one point in the whole history of mankind has Unconditional Surrender meant "Surrender without any worry that we'll demand things from you"? [/quote] I believe you are trying to reference "at what point" which would be today's current geopolitical climate starting in 1945 where unconditional surrender is governed by NATO and the UN under various conventions. This is in general has turned to surrender with out condition, as it was used and intended there-by, if your were actually interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Kerensky Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1319557431' post='2832096'] This isn't even believable, since at a point only a few days before you'd made clear that you wanted to ask for [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=106175&view=findpost&p=2831879"]reps[/url]. That's a condition, fyi. Now you back down in public because you realize that you really, really overreached pushing for that kind of surrender. [/quote] You seem not to be able to read very well, I made our position officially clear Friday, not today in public, you where there after all. Tetris came to us after "offering" white peace wanting to know where we stood, I told them where we stood at that time as they were asking alone. If NSO wanted to know where they stood all they had to do was ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) [quote][21:22] <@Alexander[Legion]> When ever Tetris is wants the war to end all they have to do is surrender and we can talk.[/quote] At first I thought you just used an incorrect term, but in case you didn't realize it, the above equates to the actual definition of unconditional surrender (terms are imposed post surrender and preemptive acquiescence, i.e. 'surrender then we can talk', not the other way around as per normal). You need to understand that's now how it works around here, and it's been decided that as a community standard such an end game isn't acceptable in almost all situations. I'll put it as plainly as possible for you: If that's what you want from Tetris, we won't allow it. Letting them lay in the bed they made is one thing, them receiving a punishment disproportionate to the crime is another. If that isn't what you mean, denounce your previous remarks and plainly say so, because you're digging yourself a hole. Edited October 25, 2011 by Il Impero Romano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varianz Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='Alexander Kerensky' timestamp='1319558106' post='2832103'] You seem not to be able to read very well, I made our position officially clear Friday, not today in public, you where there after all. Tetris came to us after "offering" white peace wanting to know where we stood, I told them where we stood at that time as they were asking alone. If NSO wanted to know where they stood all they had to do was ask. [/quote] Offers one set of terms in query to Tetris>offers another set of terms in general negotiations>posts more terms on the OWF>does not understand why people think he has no idea what he's talking about. And again, as I explained to you in query, we aren't interested in this ending just yet. Please come talk to me once I'm past 1mil casualties (yes I know it's not a lot but I've never been above 3k infra). If you wish to hasten peace, please send me more attackers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='Alexander Kerensky' timestamp='1319558106' post='2832103'] You seem not to be able to read very well, I made our position officially clear Friday, not today in public, you where there after all. Tetris came to us after "offering" white peace wanting to know where we stood, I told them where we stood at that time as they were asking alone. If NSO wanted to know where they stood all they had to do was ask. [/quote] Not according to the logs I have. Tetris didn't come to you at all, the meeting was called by LoSS(???) and the first offer to end the war was from you, with this: [12:22] <@Alexander[Legion]> When ever Tetris is wants the war to end all they have to do is surrender and we can talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwuss Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) Don't have Legion send reps, they are just plain AWFUL at getting it done in a time frame that slightly makes any sense to those who did not stop by the barrel store for a good scraping of intelligence on the way home from gazing at ducks on the radiated water pools they share with 4 other members. Two of which refuse to put on underwear at any point in the day leading to the most awkward conversations about dump trucks and turtles. Edited October 25, 2011 by mrwuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Kerensky Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1319558542' post='2832110'] I'll put it as plainly as possible for you: If that's what you want from Tetris, we won't allow it. If that isn't what you mean, denounce your previous remarks and plainly say so, because you're digging yourself a hole. [/quote] You are reading snips from logs and not the entire conversation, I said very plainly and explained what I had ment (both here and in the logs). What you are missing from the conversation are the dominoes and the context. Simply put IAA/BTA/NsO stated that Tetris was the first domino for them all, hence my statement being referenced. When Tetris was out then we could talk, as in the logs we were asking for the surrender of Tetris. Once Tetris was willing to surrender or other possible arrangements agreed to (proposed by Lowgain) then we would have to talk about everyone else. [quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1319558560' post='2832111'] And again, as I explained to you in query, we aren't interested in this ending just yet. [/quote] Others in the channel asked what it would take to get NSO out that night, that was the answer nothing more. [quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1319558873' post='2832113'] Not according to the logs I have. Tetris didn't come to you at all: [/quote] This was in reference to the original contact not the talks friday night. Edited October 25, 2011 by Alexander Kerensky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leet Guy Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='Alexander Kerensky' timestamp='1319559365' post='2832118'] Once Tetris was willing to surrender or other possible arrangements agreed to (proposed by Lowgain) then we would have to talk about everyone else. [/quote] ...this is still an unconditional surrender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Kerensky Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1319560882' post='2832134'] ...this is still an unconditional surrender. [/quote] I have no doubt you guys will try and play the terminology error out as such but it is not. The referenced AA would not leave unless Tetris was out, I made very clear that Legion wanted nothing except a surrender from Tetris which they did not want. Since they did not want that the other AA's didn't want out, the semantics of trying to say a "condition" being put on Tetris was talking about what would have already been tentatively agreed in part of the other AA's isn't a condition as a normal way things line out when items like this are discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabcat Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 There's some drivel being talked in this thread. I think our Gov has explained. But just once more for everyone. We want the surrender of Tetris, the surrender of NSO. No more. No less. No reps, no punitive conditions. Just a simple acknowledgement that they have lost the war by saying "We surrender". IAA/BTT/NsO walk away as there is no longer anything keeping them in the conflict. A simple "thank you gentlemen, it's been fun, see you around". Can everyone understand that? That's what government have asked for/want. Me? I hope NSO never surrender. Really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='Alexander Kerensky' timestamp='1319561287' post='2832138'] I have no doubt you guys will try and play the terminology error out as such but it is not. The referenced AA would not leave unless Tetris was out, I made very clear that Legion wanted nothing except a surrender from Tetris which they did not want. Since they did not want that the other AA's didn't want out, the semantics of trying to say a "condition" being put on Tetris was talking about what would have already been tentatively agreed in part of the other AA's isn't a condition as a normal way things line out when items like this are discussed. [/quote] Man, you really need to work on how you word your posts. Anyway, looking at the logs, you never detailed what surrender would entail. You simply said that Tetris could surrender and then further talks would take place. And considering the context of that remark, I find it hard to believe that you were referencing other alliances, since the conversation up to that point was in regard to Legion and Tetris only. [12:21] <~andyt2k> everyone wants this war to end as soon as possible [12:21] <~andyt2k> Alexander and Lowgain are the centre of this, so how do things stand with Legion and Tetris peace talks [12:22] <@Alexander[Legion]> When ever Tetris is wants the war to end all they have to do is surrender and we can talk. That was the start of proceedings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hershey Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 I am guessing that Tetris and NSO do not want to admit that they lost the war against an underdog like The Legion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 It doesn't matter what sort of surrender Legion wants to see, as they aren't in any position to request a surrender. Though it is amusing to see them still politically incompetent enough to ask for an unconditional surrender and apparently not understand what they are actually saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabcat Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1319562168' post='2832142'] Man, you really need to work on how you word your posts. [/quote] He uses ten words where one would suffice I grant you, but come on, it's pretty clear what's being said now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabcat Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Heft' timestamp='1319562313' post='2832144'] It doesn't matter what sort of surrender Legion wants to see, as they aren't in any position to request a surrender.[/quote] That's my boy, pound your chest, never give in. Make me a happy cat. EDIT: Word filter Edited October 25, 2011 by Sabcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varianz Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='Sabcat' timestamp='1319562542' post='2832150'] That's my boy, pound your chest, never give in. Make me a happy !@#$% cat [/quote] Did you just call yourself a !@#$ cat...? Might I suggest taking a break for a little bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='Sabcat' timestamp='1319562479' post='2832148'] He uses ten words where one would suffice I grant you, but come on, it's pretty clear what's being said now. [/quote] Not when he's the one saying it. I didn't understand the last sentence of that post at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabcat Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 [quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1319562650' post='2832153'] Not when he's the one saying it. I didn't understand the last sentence of that post at all. [/quote] Neither do I actually. I think there's a missing "out". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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