Open Invitation from the SuperFriends

[Alterego]

[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1312738791' post='2774231']
Luckily for us they attacked iFOK and iFOK had a treaty with CMEA who on it's own was no match for UPN and their only other ally was R&R. Plans where made, target lists distributed and fun little anecdote, one of the RoK delegate actually congratulated us on the fact we got what we had wished for for so many months.
[/quote]

Lucky indeed, lucky you signed a MDoAP with them 2 days earlier.

[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1312738791' post='2774231']
At that point we focused back on the rest of the war but I promised then and there UPN would be ours next time they went into a war.[/quote]

And you fulfilled that promise. Sorry, thats harsh. Its not like you can engineer your position in a war.


[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1312738791' post='2774231']
Suffice to say we had some real hate going on, our deployment in the second part of Bi-Polar was designed to pair us up with UPN again
[/quote]

I thought it was bad enough targeting an alliance considered soft in one global war, but doing it repeatedly and admitting your main war aim is to be paired with UPN This is a myth busting thread alright, the myth SF were a serious war fighting alliance

Edited August 7, 2011 by Alterego

[EgoFreaky]

[quote name='Dom Zak' timestamp='1312742314' post='2774254']
Do you think this Q&A will actually be beneficial to you or no? Sup R&R ... and Liz
[/quote]

Definitely, for someone that expects this to be a rally of support, nah it wont be. But for us, we get out there what we want to say and also find out more about where others stand towards us and what their exact grievances are if we didn't already. So that in itself is already beneficial.

Sup Zak mah love

[Alterego]

Will SF target UPN again in the next war?

Edited August 7, 2011 by Alterego

[EgoFreaky]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1312742502' post='2774255']
Lucky indeed, lucky you signed a MDoAP with them 2 days earlier.



And you fulfilled that promise. Sorry, thats harsh. Its not like you can engineer your position in a war.




I thought it was bad enough targeting an alliance considered soft in one global war, but doing it repeatedly and admitting your main war aim is to be paired with UPN This is a myth busting thread alright, the myth SF were a serious war fighting alliance
[/quote]

First of all, CMEA was an R&R split off, we held an MDoAP level treaty with them from their start, divorce pains forced us to take a step back and downgrade to oDP and the MDoAP was signed before the war started. So don't even try to spin it like the treaty was signed just to get a shot at UPN.

Actually you can partially. You know what side you're on, someone had to counter UPN, so we tried or best for us to be that.

lastly, repeatedly? We only attacked UPN once, and tried to have us counter them once before. They attacked us twice and i don't think they attacked us on our request. Also, i never said UPN would be the only one we would attack, we alo took USN as first strike the same day on request (personally no problem with them). Waited for a counter and when no big one came went in on loss at the request of CSN and were ready to go in elsewhere if an ally needed help.

I might be wrong here, but i never knew having issues with an alliance was relative to how big or strong they are.

[EgoFreaky]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1312742793' post='2774259']
Will SF target UPN again in the next war?
[/quote]

Well apart from not promising not to counter them if needed, not R&R anyway, our problems with them are over now so we've no intention to target them, nor do i believe anyone else in SF has that intention.

Edit: missed a post

[quote name='Lord Levistus' timestamp='1312742313' post='2774253']
I wouldn't assume any of this was meant to irritate R&R. More so that it's just a condemnation of UPN in general, and of no surprise to many.

/me shrugs
[/quote]

Perhaps, we took offense, had our pay pack and can move on.

/me shugs also

Edited August 7, 2011 by EgoFreaky

[MCRABT]

[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1312732103' post='2774168']

NOOOO wow hold on there... let me kill this misunderstanding before it goes places it shouldn't. Me as well as anyone else in R&R gov at the time had NO reason to mistrust what IRON gov told us and therefor did not. We haven't lost even a minute of sleep about the rumor IRON was joining the other side. Xiph however isn't R&R, has not had the longstanding friendship with IRON we had and therefor did not have the same confidence in it as we did. So from his perspective it would take a fool to ignore the possibility. From my perspective it really was a non issue. Sorry for the confusion.



Read the above, though i agree with what you say, in this case we weren't so cautios, I did not question their word for even a second. When it comes to allies i rather believe them at their word and deal with it should they break it then assume they might break their word.
[/quote]

Thanks Ego that largely clears that up for me. As for why I didn't communicate the threats with you their were multiple reasons. First of they were redundant since we had previously communicated our intentions with you. Secondly we presumed you had no knowledge of them and that Xiph had just had one to many redbull's and was having one of his spats of paranoia (looks like we were right in that assumption). Thirdly I thought they were hilarious and was not the least bit concerned they would be acted upon.

Edited August 7, 2011 by MCRABT

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1312728823' post='2774158']
If you believe your friend has a plan to kill you they aren't really your friends now are they?
[/quote]

Do you have to believe someone may want to kill you for it to be a possibility?


Edit:
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ6cw_MuTDE"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=HZ6cw_MuTDE[/url]

^Tried to embed. Epic fail.

Edited August 7, 2011 by IYIyTh

[Locke]

[quote name='Altheus' timestamp='1312727606' post='2774152']
Maybe R&R and GOD's plans were different, I don't know, but something doesn't add up. The strong impression we got in the war was that Xiphosis was absolutely desperate to disband UPN and only gave up when he realised it wasn't going to happen.
[/quote]
Those were some pretty ridiculous rumors, though I imagine the same is going to be said of anyone GOD goes to war with from now on.

Also, hey Alt.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Locke

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1312742239' post='2774252']
If that's your belief that's okay. I don't share that though. I will admit we have a policy to leave our allies business to their own, we advise were asked and step in were needed. Our policy of little intrusion does cause us to be late for the party from time to time. On top of that i think it's a view that feeds of the fact that when i drop the ball i usually don't try to hide it and just admit my part in it.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I am afraid you have misunderstood me. You stated that during NsO-SOS you were to inactive or aloof to realize what was going on, and would have gotten you rolled. Maybe that is so, but suppose you were there, would it have changed anything on RnR's end? It was mostly Xiphy and Delta doing the talking for SF, as per usual. Not that Delta usually does the talking, but more in that it is Xiphy and whichever SF alliance is directly involved. We've seen it before in CSN-DT.

I may be very mistaken, but it would appear that your relationship with GOD is quite unequal. Simply put, Xiphy is too obnoxious a person for anyone to be on an equal standing as him. He just won't allow it.

From what I have seen of RnR, you are a follower, and not a leader. Currently, Xiphy has you tethered to his whims, and you will support him unconditionally. In all dealings with RnR that NSO has had with you, we can admit that you yourself are a reasonable and respectable alliance. Our quarrel with you is more due to the company you keep, and your support of them (GOD, CSN, Dunder Mifflin, etc.).

I have heard that RnR did not feel the same need to disband UPN that Xiphypoo did, even though you disliked them quite a bit. Still, you supported Xiphy's ego trip, unconditionally. I understand loyalty quite a bit, but what I have seen from RnR looks less like loyalty and more like you being held emotionally hostage to the whims of a madman.[/color]

Edited August 7, 2011 by Rebel Virginia

[Roadie]

If the treaties play out in a way the puts GOD against TOP and NPO, would Xiphs head explode?

Edit: Teh Spell Fale

Edited August 7, 2011 by Roadie

[supercoolyellow]

Is it awkward that IRON is in an area of the treaty web that has great animosity towards SF and that they in turn have an MDP with one of your members?

[Delta1212]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1312754071' post='2774347']
Is it awkward that IRON is in an area of the treaty web that has great animosity towards SF and that they in turn have an MDP with one of your members?
[/quote]
They don't, in fact, have an MDP with any of us.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1312755248' post='2774362']
They don't, in fact, have an MDP with any of us.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Did the RnR-IRON treaty get canceled? Or is the treaty an MDoAP or something? Either way, let me ask a question. What does SF think it has to gain from playing cute to avoid answering the hard questions (when you aren't ignoring them outright)? Are you hoping that we won't notice what you're doing?[/color]

[Timberland]

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1312448722' post='2771697']



"Yay, more folks TOP will try and throw at us." Also "Why is OMFG in a new Citadel weren't they allied to Legion back during the original one? So confused." - but Umb and others have answered that [long relationship with TOP, etc].

[/quote]

you're irrelevant to TOP don't flatter yourself

[MitchellBade]

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1312755248' post='2774362']
They don't, in fact, have an MDP with any of us.
[/quote]
Is this insider info about RnR's departure from SF then?

[Bob]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1312653167' post='2773581']
To all member-alliances of SF:
In the war mentioned above, BLEU (Hyperion specifically, an alliance protected by a BLEU alliance) was attacked by both GGA and Valhalla originally. Valhalla was a member of continuum then, and GGA was a member of the 1vision bloc. BLEU could have hypothetically won that war if they only counter declared on GGA and taken out 1vision.

Do you feel as though you can employ a strategy in this seemingly inevitable war to only go to war with MJ alliances instead of MJ/PB/DR alliances?
[/quote]
Hyperion was protected by GR. We were a member of the economic BLEU treaty, not BLEU.

[EgoFreaky]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1312751027' post='2774322']
[color="#0000FF"]I am afraid you have misunderstood me. You stated that during NsO-SOS you were to inactive or aloof to realize what was going on, and would have gotten you rolled. Maybe that is so, but suppose you were there, would it have changed anything on RnR's end? It was mostly Xiphy and Delta doing the talking for SF, as per usual. Not that Delta usually does the talking, but more in that it is Xiphy and whichever SF alliance is directly involved. We've seen it before in CSN-DT.

I may be very mistaken, but it would appear that your relationship with GOD is quite unequal. Simply put, Xiphy is too obnoxious a person for anyone to be on an equal standing as him. He just won't allow it.

From what I have seen of RnR, you are a follower, and not a leader. Currently, Xiphy has you tethered to his whims, and you will support him unconditionally. In all dealings with RnR that NSO has had with you, we can admit that you yourself are a reasonable and respectable alliance. Our quarrel with you is more due to the company you keep, and your support of them (GOD, CSN, Dunder Mifflin, etc.).

I have heard that RnR did not feel the same need to disband UPN that Xiphypoo did, even though you disliked them quite a bit. Still, you supported Xiphy's ego trip, unconditionally. I understand loyalty quite a bit, but what I have seen from RnR looks less like loyalty and more like you being held emotionally hostage to the whims of a madman.[/color]
[/quote]

Well it would have cost us seeing it would have taken at least R&R offguard. That said we are pretty much able to mobilize in 48 hours max from def 5 to def 1 so it would be a big inconvenience but not the end really. Xiph and Delta talked because Xiph and Delta where or are allied to SOS, R&R is not. How often is NSO involved in negotiations of allies of allies? That way every negotiation would be pretty messy if 2 parties have a problem and bring in all their allies and those allies bring in their allies too. As for ourselves i'm glad to say most R&R's allies don't get into messy situations by their own doing that often where they're not able to find a peaceful solution themselves. One of the few times i recall was between DMI and NSO and i believe that was settled soon enough after a little talk no?

I wouldn't call R&R a leader either no. Not in our nature, though we really don't follow Xiph blindly and though our support for GOD is big, it's not unconditional to say that they can just do anything they please. In many cases that means when disagreeing, let things cool off a bit, don't attack but just discuss an issue and suddenly you see Xiph isn't such an unreasonable person at all, who would figure that being friendly and talk instead of yell and curse would work so well.

how did we unconditionally support Xiph when he said he wanted to disband UPN? Did i fall asleep and miss the disbanding part? That you don't see discussions between GOD and R&R doesn't mean they are not their nor that we go spread around "yeah we no like either, we doing everything against it". We prefer to settle matters we don't agree with in private, sometimes that doesn't work usually it does. When it doesn't work you have to decide is it worth cancelling a treaty over or are we going another way with this. So far the treaty is still there so apparently we haven't thought it necessary to cancel just yet.As far as CSN-DT, i know xiph was involved, honestly i'm not sure about how much his involvement really was, from my understanding it wasn't anything more then a little helping hand but whatever it was, it was CSN's decision to include Xiph or not. How many R&R negotions do you know Xiph got involved in? Only time i recall was when he and Jim pushed for a last round of negotiations and wanted to help out with UINE. They wanted to try one last talk, find some way out while we where busy preparing to attack and pretty much done with talking. They asked for one last meeting, I didn't turn it down, at the end it worked (kinda for the moment).

But this is what puzzles me, you question why i wasn't involved in the SOS-NsO talks, you question about Xiphs involvement in the CSN-DT situation and most of all you point at our absence and how we only follow. But tell me, should we have stuck our nose in all those things, wouldn't we be doing EXACTLY what you accuse Xiph of doing? We have no business in negotiations of allies and certainly not allies of allies unless our presence is requested. Just like none of our allies has any business in ours unless we or maybe the people we're negotiating with request it.

[EgoFreaky]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1312754071' post='2774347']
Is it awkward that IRON is in an area of the treaty web that has great animosity towards SF and that they in turn have an MDP with one of your members?
[/quote]

Euhm, well it was kinda up to IRON to announce it, so i hope they can forgive me for spilling the beans, but IRON used to have an MDP with us but it's recently been decided to downgrade it to an oDP. However there has been some delay in the announcement since we still have to get together and reword the treaty.

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1312754071' post='2774347']
Is it awkward that IRON is in an area of the treaty web that has great animosity towards SF and that they in turn have an MDP with one of your members?
[/quote]

well as said above, it's an oDP now or soon how you want to see it. But yeah not really awkward. IRON and R&R have been good friends for a long time and been on different sides of the web for over half that time. Not an ideal situation but somehow we made it work.

Edited August 7, 2011 by EgoFreaky

[Varianz]

I'm amazed the IRON-R&R treaty lasted as long as it did, to be honest.

[Artigo]

[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1312755957' post='2774373']


well as said above, it's an oDP now or soon how you want to see it. But yeah not really awkward. IRON and R&R have been good friends for a long time and been on different sides of the web for over half that time. Not an ideal situation but somehow we made it work.
[/quote]

I'd say that's for the best. The friendship is there, just unfortunately not the politics.

[EgoFreaky]

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1312756551' post='2774379']
I'm amazed the IRON-R&R treaty lasted as long as it did, to be honest.
[/quote]


[quote name='Artigo' timestamp='1312756577' post='2774380']
I'd say that's for the best. The friendship is there, just unfortunately not the politics.
[/quote]

Agreed to both, though part of me regrets it out of sentimental reasons, from a political perspective downgrading was the way to go.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1312755957' post='2774373']
Euhm, well it was kinda up to IRON to announce it, so i hope they can forgive me for spilling the beans, but IRON used to have an MDP with us but it's recently been decided to downgrade it to an oDP. However there has been some delay in the announcement since we still have to get together and reword the treaty.
[/quote]

Awww I was expecting Feanor to come congratulate them publicly on the OWF. I guess he's too busy still gawking at Polar and FARK.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Omniscient1

[Penkala]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1312451188' post='2771711']
You FILLED all of their slots. Do you think we would even notice if it were just 10 offers? Do you really think I'm going to make screenshots of all our aid screens? I find it really funny that you are now going to deny it because those guys ended up cancelling the aid. Pretty amateurish.

I just found one of my guys copied 1 page of an aidscreen already listing 13 NG aid deals. I'll put them up soon as 'evidence'.

-snip-

Last shot is proof that they filled at least 1 guy's almost all slots. Why wouldn't CSN fill all the slots anyway of those 5-6 dealers?
[/quote]


Seriously, who cares? I'm for rolling SF as much as the next guy, but stop being a baby. Tech dealing =/= an issue.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Penkala

[janax]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1312757507' post='2774396']
Awww I was expecting Feanor to come congratulate them publicly on the OWF. I guess he's too busy still gawking at Polar and FARK.
[/quote]

It's possible IRON didn't run around asking permission to downgrade, like other parties did to upgrade. I am not sure I informed everyone in Argent about it, because it was fairly minor. Possibly the same thing happened in TOP

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='janax' timestamp='1312759057' post='2774418']
It's possible IRON didn't run around asking permission to downgrade, like other parties did to upgrade. I am not sure I informed everyone in Argent about it, because it was fairly minor. Possibly the same thing happened in TOP
[/quote]

The other upgrade was pretty minor too, but that's not the topic of this thread I don't guess.


Does SF think there are any ways at all to end up pulling out a win in the next war? or have you already resigned yourself to minimizing damage?