Open Invitation from the SuperFriends

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Matt Miller' timestamp='1312713023' post='2774097']
So even though we (as your allies) told you we would not enter, you still thought we might and allowed your block mate to threaten us? We never gave you a reason not to trust us, yet you still didn't trust us. That's good to know, Ego.
[/quote]


[i] [u]"Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet if necessary, because they may want to kill you. [/u][/i]"

Ego stated he does what every good alliance leader does in this game (and any government in the world, since this OOC, I suppose,) which is consider anything a possibility and nothing certain. Trust is certainly important but there is a degree of Murphy's Law at play.

I agree there's a bit of strong arm from Xiph , but it's nothing Bob's never seen before. (Definetly not even the best of Xiph himself.)
If anything it seems it was a pretty effective way to get a point across, regardless of whether said possibility existed or not, it at least would make someone think twice if it did. I could see how that would be upsetting but from what I can tell it was done out of respect for IRON's potential ability to make things go haywire that the strong-arm was employed.

I can see how that would be upsetting, but does that really make Ego untrusting?

Edit: grammar

Edited August 7, 2011 by IYIyTh

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1312674766' post='2773829']
Orly? Did it.. actually R&R (GOD's only ally on that front) had no problem at all continuing fighting UPN and both iFOK and CMEA i've offered myself to take a separate peace if they wanted to, because we would take a bit more time then needed. Seeing CMEA contained a lot of former R&R, that had the same distaste for Bi-polar actions from UPN they didn't take it. And peace was signed before iFOK ever got back to me about it.
[/quote]

No you got it (partly) wrong Ego. GOD didn't want to peace out UPN which led to a hold up on the NpO front too (and cascaded down to almost all alliances we fought). To say that CMEA and iFOK didn't want to take separate peace because we disliked UPN is far-fetched and you know it.

I know exactly why he wanted to postpone that front and that was so that all the PB (PC, iFOK and their allies) alliances and the NpO allies on that front to hurt some more. It's pretty smart because GOD took in minimum damages with postponing the war while a lot of alliances he disliked suffered more from it. You might deny it, or maybe you didn't know it but don't claim you know for sure postponing the war wasn't done for that exact reason.

Also, I've been hearing from multiple people including you that Xiph haven't started rumours about MK. That's also a lie. Just days ago Xiph tried to divide PB and MK by starting an unfounded rumor. I think you are smarter than to believe Xiph's word for it.

[erikz]

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1312712915' post='2774096']
It was more a stab at NG for making the ex-leader of Gotham any position higher than "member".

Plus I have these logs where I was able to get him to agree to help me coup Tetris' leader in about a half hour. Pretty funny.

But thanks for answering all my questions so far. You're the only SF gov who hasn't ignored me.
[/quote]

Well, the thing I don't like is that you try to blemish someone who's putting real effort in NG and actually tries to make our alliance a better place.


To SF leadership:
I read some pages back (was a few days ago - don't know by who) that NV would be a good candidate for SF membership? Why is that? Because they're quite tied up with the Mj side of the web (Val / NoR) and have no direct ties with any SF alliance.

[Holy Ruler]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1312606698' post='2773257']
[color="#0000FF"]90% it looks like. For some reason I thought I only had 70%. Seems it was im317 and some other guy that have spies. No one else apparently.

Anyway, will you answer my question. How does it feel to be worse than Legion in this aspect of alliance preparation? That's a claim that few can boast.[/color]
[/quote]

I didnt know you could spy attack a guy in the 15 K NS range and another with 70K NS.

It looks like its you who resembles Legion in your knowledge (or lack thereof) of how CN works.

[Vladisvok Destino]

[quote name='Holy Ruler' timestamp='1312719751' post='2774118']
I didnt know you could spy attack a guy in the 15 K NS range and another with 70K NS.

It looks like its you who resembles Legion in your knowledge (or lack thereof) of how CN works.
[/quote]

I'd look to your own knowledge before questioning others. You can't spy attack someone outside your range, but you can still find out your spy odds against them (RV never claimed to have actually spied on either of those people.)

Edited August 7, 2011 by Vladisvok Destino

[berbers]

[quote name='Holy Ruler' timestamp='1312719751' post='2774118']
I didnt know you could spy attack a guy in the 15 K NS range and another with 70K NS.

It looks like its you who resembles Legion in your knowledge (or lack thereof) of how CN works.
[/quote]

You can get spy odds on anyone, just not launch the attack. Now please don't do anything else that makes me defend RV, it's like sleeping with a hooker you know has STD's but you do it anyway because your drunk.

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='erikz' timestamp='1312717849' post='2774110']
To SF leadership:
I read some pages back (was a few days ago - don't know by who) that NV would be a good candidate for SF membership? Why is that? Because they're quite tied up with the Mj side of the web (Val / NoR) and have no direct ties with any SF alliance.
[/quote]

No, because they are actually an efficient group, tight-knit, loyal, and mean what they say.

[Delta1212]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1312723265' post='2774132']
No, because they are actually an efficient group, tight-knit, loyal, and mean what they say.
[/quote]
That second part wasn't a question, it was more of a "but" than anything. In answer to that, I believe the question had the condition that current political ties be ignored. I don't know about you, but it isn't like I dislike everyone who is tied up in sections ofthe web separate from my own.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Delta1212

[TECUMSEH]

[quote]Giving them a good scare in the process was perhaps a bit childish but not more then that really.[/quote]

Unfortunately, it didn't even give us much of scare--I don't think anyone thought disbandment was credible. I think those who were being honest saw it for what it was -- wanting to inflict a few weeks' more damage on UPN (and have others incur damage -- see Arexes' correct summary above). In any event, it just very bad FA. It gave the OWFers that dislike GOD/SF something to harrangue you guys about and, more importantly, it alienated supposed "allies." The latter, I think, is coming back on you.

Anyway, I'm not one to hold grudges, so I, frankly, have nothing against you guys and have generally enjoyed the QnA.

Edited August 7, 2011 by TECUMSEH

[erikz]

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1312724782' post='2774138']
That second part wasn't a question, it was more of a "but" than anything. In answer to that, I believe the question had the condition that current political ties be ignored. I don't know about you, but it isn't like I dislike everyone who is tied up in sections ofthe web separate from my own.
[/quote]

Thanks for the clarification. Same goes for me. My love for NV is also great, just like my love for the boys over at [s]RnR[/s] R&R.

Edited August 7, 2011 by erikz

[Altheus]

[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1312674766' post='2773829']
Orly? Did it.. actually R&R (GOD's only ally on that front) had no problem at all continuing fighting UPN and both iFOK and CMEA i've offered myself to take a separate peace if they wanted to, because we would take a bit more time then needed. Seeing CMEA contained a lot of former R&R, that had the same distaste for Bi-polar actions from UPN they didn't take it. And peace was signed before iFOK ever got back to me about it. As for the actual disbandment... they're still around aren't they? And i can tell you it had nothing to do with public opinion but everything to do with UPN showing last war they where no longer the UPN of the past (or at least working hard on not being it anymore). We gave UPN an out of the war several times while they where clearly defeated and nothing more then a small strain on our lower midtiers, they opted to continue (respect for that and again something that showed this wasn't the Bi-Polar UPN anymore) when they finally came for peace.. well we wanted it on our terms basically, not their earliest convenience. Giving them a good scare in the process was perhaps a bit childish but not more then that really. [/quote]

[quote=Xiphosis]Why believe in God if it's going to hurt your position in society to do so? Which is to say; because it's an ideal I hold, even if it's bad for realpolitikal ends, and I tend to defend my beliefs. I think disbandment makes everyone put a lot of effort into nation building, I think it makes people care more about what treaties they sign - and how they perform in wars - because it raises the stakes so high, and I think having it off the table breeds laziness and sloppy treaty signing [leading to a ballooning web]. It's a valid position and not one I'm going to abandon simply for emotional or PR reasons.[/quote]

Maybe R&R and GOD's plans were different, I don't know, but something doesn't add up. The strong impression we got in the war was that Xiphosis was absolutely desperate to disband UPN and only gave up when he realised it wasn't going to happen.

[Zoomzoomzoom]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1312723265' post='2774132']
No, because they are actually an efficient group, tight-knit, loyal, and mean what they say.
[/quote]

If by efficient you mean 7% aid slot usage

Edited August 7, 2011 by Zoomzoomzoom

[MCRABT]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1312716373' post='2774106']
[i] [u]"Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet if necessary, because they may want to kill you. [/u][/i]"

Ego stated he does what every good alliance leader does in this game (and any government in the world, since this OOC, I suppose,) which is consider anything a possibility and nothing certain. Trust is certainly important but there is a degree of Murphy's Law at play.

I agree there's a bit of strong arm from Xiph , but it's nothing Bob's never seen before. (Definetly not even the best of Xiph himself.)
If anything it seems it was a pretty effective way to get a point across, regardless of whether said possibility existed or not, it at least would make someone think twice if it did. I could see how that would be upsetting but from what I can tell it was done out of respect for IRON's potential ability to make things go haywire that the strong-arm was employed.

I can see how that would be upsetting, but does that really make Ego untrusting?

Edit: grammar
[/quote]

If you believe your friend has a plan to kill you they aren't really your friends now are they? We held an MDP and an obligation to defend them, we take our obligations extremely seriously. We weren't some random stranger off the street we have held a treaty for 3 years, I am sure RnR knows that when we say we aren't going to do something we're not going to do it.

More to the point Xiophis's posturing had the complete opposite effect, as a general rule of thumb if you are concerned someone has the potential to cause you damage threatening them is not the most effective way of convincing them not to do so especially when they don't particularly like you in the first place. The strong arm changed absolutely nothing apart from re-affirming our belief that GOD were hostile toward us and increasing our bemusement that an alliance of RnR's quality could keep such extraordinarily poor company. His strong arm was an extremely poor way of getting the point across.

It does make him untrusting because he was told straight up by multiple members of our government that we wouldn't be getting involved. Excuse it anyway you like but clearly he didn't take our word at face value.

Xiphosis thank you for your reply while your methods were miscalculated and ineffectual your honesty is appreciated.

[EgoFreaky]

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1312712915' post='2774096']
It was more a stab at NG for making the ex-leader of Gotham any position higher than "member".

Plus I have these logs where I was able to get him to agree to help me coup Tetris' leader in about a half hour. Pretty funny.

But thanks for answering all my questions so far. You're the only SF gov who hasn't ignored me.
[/quote]

My apologies, i took it a bit different, stab away then

and no problem, i'm trying not to ignore anyone, though it can be hard to keep up.

Also i must admit, after Diabloz left R&R I had contact with him while he took over Gotham but lost contact afterwards, so i'm not aware what he has or hasn't done since really. I chose to remember him as a promising member in R&R and if he's about the same in NG as he was with us, it's not a terrible choice.


[quote name='Matt Miller' timestamp='1312713023' post='2774097']
So even though we (as your allies) told you we would not enter, you still thought we might and allowed your block mate to threaten us? We never gave you a reason not to trust us, yet you still didn't trust us. That's good to know, Ego.
[/quote]

NOOOO wow hold on there... let me kill this misunderstanding before it goes places it shouldn't. Me as well as anyone else in R&R gov at the time had NO reason to mistrust what IRON gov told us and therefor did not. We haven't lost even a minute of sleep about the rumor IRON was joining the other side. Xiph however isn't R&R, has not had the longstanding friendship with IRON we had and therefor did not have the same confidence in it as we did. So from his perspective it would take a fool to ignore the possibility. From my perspective it really was a non issue. Sorry for the confusion.

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1312716373' post='2774106']
[i] [u]"Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet if necessary, because they may want to kill you. [/u][/i]"

Ego stated he does what every good alliance leader does in this game (and any government in the world, since this OOC, I suppose,) which is consider anything a possibility and nothing certain. Trust is certainly important but there is a degree of Murphy's Law at play.

I agree there's a bit of strong arm from Xiph , but it's nothing Bob's never seen before. (Definetly not even the best of Xiph himself.)
If anything it seems it was a pretty effective way to get a point across, regardless of whether said possibility existed or not, it at least would make someone think twice if it did. I could see how that would be upsetting but from what I can tell it was done out of respect for IRON's potential ability to make things go haywire that the strong-arm was employed.

I can see how that would be upsetting, but does that really make Ego untrusting?

Edit: grammar
[/quote]

Read the above, though i agree with what you say, in this case we weren't so cautios, I did not question their word for even a second. When it comes to allies i rather believe them at their word and deal with it should they break it then assume they might break their word.

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1312717140' post='2774108']
No you got it (partly) wrong Ego. GOD didn't want to peace out UPN which led to a hold up on the NpO front too (and cascaded down to almost all alliances we fought). To say that CMEA and iFOK didn't want to take separate peace because we disliked UPN is far-fetched and you know it.

I know exactly why he wanted to postpone that front and that was so that all the PB (PC, iFOK and their allies) alliances and the NpO allies on that front to hurt some more. It's pretty smart because GOD took in minimum damages with postponing the war while a lot of alliances he disliked suffered more from it. You might deny it, or maybe you didn't know it but don't claim you know for sure postponing the war wasn't done for that exact reason.

Also, I've been hearing from multiple people including you that Xiph haven't started rumours about MK. That's also a lie. Just days ago Xiph tried to divide PB and MK by starting an unfounded rumor. I think you are smarter than to believe Xiph's word for it.
[/quote]

Okay, it's possible that led to more hold-ups, i was not aware. Last war for me personally was one i would have loved to bury my head in the sand and not come out till it was over, most of my knowledge comes from the contact i had with GOD, iFOK, CMEA and CSN, so i must admit i'm not fully in the know about what exactly happened outside our own little part of it.

I never said iFOK disliked UPN, as for CMEA, i'm pretty sure they had some degree of dislike for UPN at the time. We (R&R) also made clear that we had not even one good intention with UPN last ar, i discussed this extensively with Mike and GFL, the only reason UPN got of with white peace from us is because of their behaviour and dedication to their allies during that war.

Well please indulge me in telling me what rumor that was, if you don't want it out here you know where to find me.

[quote name='erikz' timestamp='1312717849' post='2774110']
Well, the thing I don't like is that you try to blemish someone who's putting real effort in NG and actually tries to make our alliance a better place.


To SF leadership:
I read some pages back (was a few days ago - don't know by who) that NV would be a good candidate for SF membership? Why is that? Because they're quite tied up with the Mj side of the web (Val / NoR) and have no direct ties with any SF alliance.
[/quote]

I think it was already answered, but imo that answer was disregarding treaty ties, in their current position of course they wouldn't be added to SF nor do i have any reason to think they would be interested.


[quote name='TECUMSEH' timestamp='1312724946' post='2774140']
Unfortunately, it didn't even give us much of scare--I don't think anyone thought disbandment was credible. I think those who were being honest saw it for what it was -- wanting to inflict a few weeks' more damage on UPN (and have others incur damage -- see Arexes' correct summary above). In any event, it just very bad FA. It gave the OWFers that dislike GOD/SF something to harrangue you guys about and, more importantly, it alienated supposed "allies." The latter, I think, is coming back on you.

Anyway, I'm not one to hold grudges, so I, frankly, have nothing against you guys and have generally enjoyed the QnA.
[/quote]

Oh, don't be too sure, last war was where we burried the hatched with UPN, but when it started and we attacked UPN... I could tell you we did it in support of our big love iFOK, and altough i've always liked iFOK, that would be a big lie. We pushed for UPN as a target, we pissed of people in the process to get you as our target and our only intend was to give you as much hurt as we possibly could. And though realistically R&R isn't an alliance that disbands others (nor do i think i could get our membership behind something like that) it's quite possible we where the first ones to state that desire. Just to point out you shouldn't underestimate how much bad blood some of us had in regards to UPN between the Bi-Polar and VE-NpO wars.

As said before, a lot of things in that regard changed last war and apart from using it to fool around with Robster our hate pretty much died last war, but damn when it started, did we hate your guts.

It also touches on some earlier question about cherrypicking targets, for R&R that was certainly the case, not because we wanted an easy target, apart from UPN we took USN because R&R and CMEA against UPN alone would have been overkill, then we waited for a counter for a little and when that wasn't coming we joined in where our allies requested help. As for the start of the war.. When the sides switched during Bi-Polar and UPN went neutral in the second part, i stated in the coalition channel that the war after, coalition be damned, we would resolve our issues with UPN and that we expected all our allies and the alliances we supported during that war to support us in our choice of that target the war after. NpO-VE was the war after and we did what was stated so many months before.

[quote name='erikz' timestamp='1312727525' post='2774151']
Thanks for the clarification. Same goes for me. My love for NV is also great, just like my love for the boys over at [s]RnR[/s] R&R.
[/quote]

Ahhh you never told us that before

[quote name='Altheus' timestamp='1312727606' post='2774152']
Maybe R&R and GOD's plans were different, I don't know, but something doesn't add up. The strong impression we got in the war was that Xiphosis was absolutely desperate to disband UPN and only gave up when he realised it wasn't going to happen.
[/quote]

Once word of the disbandment threat got to me, of course we talked about it, desperate for it was not really the case. There was no passionate argument, there where no threats or demands we would support disbandment and there was no massive outcry when it didn't happen. Just a very businesslike Pro and Con conversation. And in all honesty, I believe a part of his "desire" to disband UPN may have stemmed from having to had to hear how much we hated UPN for so many months, the way you came in on R&R during Bi-Polar and what happened during the Bi-Polar war.

Thing is, noone will deny GOD is a more hardcore alliance then R&R, and where we just might utter the thought of how it would be to disband UPN, he is in a position to actually consider it because he will have way less opposition from within his own alliance.

So not entirely sure how to put it, but i think when it comes to the UPN disbandment threats, though made by Xiph, it would be better to place some if not all of the blame on R&R, or at least some of us in gov that had a deep and sometimes even unreasonable amount of hatred going on.

Edited August 7, 2011 by EgoFreaky

[Rush Sykes]

Seriously, if you think you need plan for the contingency of your allies lying to your face, then you shouldn't be allies. I cannot fathom EVER having an ally tell me they are going to do X, and me even giving 2 seconds of thought to them doing anything other than X. That's messed up on so many levels.

[Goldie]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1312723265' post='2774132']
No, because they are actually an efficient group, tight-knit, loyal, and mean what they say.
[/quote]

...that hate SF and have good reason.

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1312732244' post='2774170']
Seriously, if you think you need plan for the contingency of your allies lying to your face, then you shouldn't be allies. I cannot fathom EVER having an ally tell me they are going to do X, and me even giving 2 seconds of thought to them doing anything other than X. That's messed up on so many levels.
[/quote]
Did you read his post, or was that a rhetorical statement in response to no one in particular? I really don't know, because Ego did just point out that nobody holding an actual treaty with IRON directed any mistrust toward them. Xiph didn't trust IRON, and admitted he was mistaken on that count in this thread. He isn't allied to IRON and never has been. Ego, who was allied to them, took them on their word and didn't consider it an issue.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Delta1212

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1312732716' post='2774174']
Did you read his post, or was that a rhetorical statement in response to no one in particular? I really don't know, because Ego did just point out that nobody holding an actual treaty with IRON directed any mistrust toward them. Xiph didn't trust IRON, and admitted he was mistaken on that count in this thread. He isn't allied to IRON and never has been. Ego, who was allied to them, took them on their word and didn't consider it an issue.
[/quote]

It does say something about a relationship, in my opinion Delta. It is not just enough, IMO, to say "whoah, we believed IRON, but we chose to let GOD threaten them anyways." At the end of the day, you cannot stop GOD from thinking or doing what they want. However, it really does appear as though R&R did nothing to assuage GOD's doubts, and turned a blind eye to one ally threatening another ally that they claim to have totally trusted. It does not add up. If there are no repercussions or vehement defense of one ally suggesting that another ally is lying(and threatening them in the same manner), then it is clear that one ally is valued over another. I may well be wrong here, but I dont see anyone from R&R saying that they actively tried to assuage GOD's threats and conspiracy theories in regards to IRON, only that they think GOD did what any prudent alliance should do. Quite frankly, I call that BS.

Edit: Within CnG.. almost NOBODY trusted PC for a long long long time. We had massive hours long defensive fights on PCs behalf, and it did not damage the bloc, or the relationships within the bloc. It is what one ally should do for another. Everyone in CnG had their opinions, but we also respected and understood the need to defend our exterior allies. SF seems to turn a blind eye to that nonsense, and its a foreign concept to me.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Rush Sykes

[EgoFreaky]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1312732244' post='2774170']
Seriously, if you think you need plan for the contingency of your allies lying to your face, then you shouldn't be allies. I cannot fathom EVER having an ally tell me they are going to do X, and me even giving 2 seconds of thought to them doing anything other than X. That's messed up on so many levels.
[/quote]

Again, we didn't and GOD isn't allied to IRON.

[EgoFreaky]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1312733330' post='2774179']
It does say something about a relationship, in my opinion Delta. It is not just enough, IMO, to say "whoah, we believed IRON, but we chose to let GOD threaten them anyways." At the end of the day, you cannot stop GOD from thinking or doing what they want. However, it really does appear as though R&R did nothing to assuage GOD's doubts, and turned a blind eye to one ally threatening another ally that they claim to have totally trusted. It does not add up. If there are no repercussions or vehement defense of one ally suggesting that another ally is lying(and threatening them in the same manner), then it is clear that one ally is valued over another. I may well be wrong here, but I dont see anyone from R&R saying that they actively tried to assuage GOD's threats and conspiracy theories in regards to IRON, only that they think GOD did what any prudent alliance should do. Quite frankly, I call that BS.

Edit: Within CnG.. almost NOBODY trusted PC for a long long long time. We had massive hours long defensive fights on PCs behalf, and it did not damage the bloc, or the relationships within the bloc. It is what one ally should do for another. Everyone in CnG had their opinions, but we also respected and understood the need to defend our exterior allies. SF seems to turn a blind eye to that nonsense, and its a foreign concept to me.
[/quote]


If someone from IRON had come to me with those threats we would CERTAINLY have responded, as is i found out way later and that made any response really.. useless?

Thing is GOD dislikes IRON, if it was up to them we weren't allied to IRON, that goes 2 ways, If it was up to the majority of IRON we wouldn't be allied to GOD either. I suspect, that those threats where void (seeing IRON wasn't going to come in there was no reason to "fear" them) and therefor they didn't make a big deal about it towards us. Of course we don't condone threats made towards other allies, but more then that.. let's just say i've given up the hope of making GOD like/trust IRON or the other way around. If it's ever to happen it will have to be their own doing and nothing R&R can do to help them there.

Edit to reflect rush' edit:
Trust me, massive hours discussing IRON with Xiph is an understatement For a long time it was one of our most talked about things. We all dislike allies of allies sometimes, turning a blind eye to that doesn't do anyone any good and as such wasn't done.

Edited August 7, 2011 by EgoFreaky

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1312733397' post='2774181']
Again, we didn't and GOD isn't allied to IRON.
[/quote]

You have a responsibility, as allies of IRON (and GOD)... in that situation, to go to GOD and say "They gave us our word, that word is gold to me, now you have my word that their word is good, and I would appreciate it if you back the hell up off my allies." Anything less than that(and maybe you did this, I dont know), and you really failed at fulfilling your obligation to IRON. You can think I am wrong, but in this case, as sure as I live and breathe, I am not wrong. This was your job to your allies. Simply saying "GOD did not trust them" is not good enough, and is a GLARING example that lends credence to those who think that GOD and Xiphosis run SF. If you go to them and tell them this, and they still threaten IRON, then you have a problem, and it almost seems like you knew that would still be the problem, so you chose to avoid it, and in so doing, kinda hung IRON out to dry. You want a lesson in what to do when one ally threatens another? Refer to MK and NpO re: Athens.


Edit: After Ego's last reply:If IRON did not bring these threats to R&R's attention as Ego says, then IRON has only itself to blame for those threats continuing.

So now my question would go to IRON. Did anyone approach anyone in R&R regarding GODs threats, veiled or direct?

2nd Edit: It is still never a good idea to threaten an ally of an ally.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Rush Sykes

[Rush Sykes]

My question to GOD specifically, but I would like to hear all of SF's members opinions on this....


Back during the GOD-IAA fanfic drama. What do you REALLY think Athens would have done had GOD actually hit IAA? And why do you think that.

[EgoFreaky]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1312734117' post='2774189']
You have a responsibility, as allies of IRON (and GOD)... in that situation, to go to GOD and say "They gave us our word, that word is gold to me, now you have my word that their word is good, and I would appreciate it if you back the hell up off my allies." Anything less than that(and maybe you did this, I dont know), and you really failed at fulfilling your obligation to IRON. You can think I am wrong, but in this case, as sure as I live and breathe, I am not wrong. This was your job to your allies. Simply saying "GOD did not trust them" is not good enough, and is a GLARING example that lends credence to those who think that GOD and Xiphosis run SF. If you go to them and tell them this, and they still threaten IRON, then you have a problem, and it almost seems like you knew that would still be the problem, so you chose to avoid it, and in so doing, kinda hung IRON out to dry. You want a lesson in what to do when one ally threatens another? Refer to MK and NpO re: Athens.
[/quote]

I did, I did trust IRON, I did tell Xiph their word was solid, and i did give him my word. I would have told him to back off my allies if i had the knowledge i have now, I have told him to back off as i've told IRON in return from time to time along the line about other things. But i CAN'T respond to something i have no knowledge about, and seeing IRON didn't tell me about it when they were threatened i believe they either didn't want me to, because the threats were void anyway, or that they didn't trust me to be able to do something about it, OR because they didn't consider that an option for whatever reason. Thing is I stand by that that i can't respond to something when i'm not aware of it. So if IRON had wanted me to respond, they should have and probably would have talked to me about it.

[EgoFreaky]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1312734390' post='2774190']
My question to GOD specifically, but I would like to hear all of SF's members opinions on this....


Back during the GOD-IAA fanfic drama. What do you REALLY think Athens would have done had GOD actually hit IAA? And why do you think that.
[/quote]

I'll pass for now, i have honestly no idea and would have to go back on what exactly happened there. Hell i can't even recall around which time it happened :S

[EgoFreaky]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1312734117' post='2774189']

2nd Edit: It is still never a good idea to threaten an ally of an ally.
[/quote]

Stop editing, dammit of course, i have to agree here.