ATTENTION FARK:

[janax]

[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1312312755' post='2770239']
Non Grata gov approached FARK before Cynic 'exposed' it. The situation was handled privately between FARK and NG gov.

This entire topic has no point, other than an attempt at smearing our image and feeding Cynic's attention.


Fear's punishment has been set, and since FARK chose not to pursue anything more over something as trivial as a "gather intel" operation we can all move on.

EDIT: "trivial" as in not much to start a war over. Thought I should clarify that. I'm sure half of you will disagree though.
[/quote]
Roll Zoom for the obvious coverup of something nefarious, imo.

[berbers]

[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1312312755' post='2770239']
Non Grata gov approached FARK before Cynic 'exposed' it. The situation was handled privately between FARK and NG gov.

This entire topic has no point, other than an attempt at smearing our image and feeding Cynic's attention.


Fear's punishment has been set, and since FARK chose not to pursue anything more over something as trivial as a "gather intel" operation we can all move on.

[b]EDIT: "trivial" as in not much to start a war over. Thought I should clarify that. I'm sure half of you will disagree though.[/b]
[/quote]

Didn't you just fight a war over someone stealing essentially the same information you get from a gather intel?

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='Vladius Dreadfire' timestamp='1312311796' post='2770231']
My being a Pacifican has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I believe in full and fair justice. What I see here is far from that.
[/quote]
Don't worry, no one here is going to associate Pacifica with full and fair justice.

[King Xander the Only]

[quote name='berbers' timestamp='1312317147' post='2770288']
Didn't you just fight a war over someone stealing essentially the same information you get from a gather intel?
[/quote]
Didn't you just get your ass handed to you by running your mouth? I'd hate to see you make similar mistakes by ignoring your history.

The situation with Fark has been handled. If there is more to discuss, I'm certain that it will be NG and Fark discussing it, together, in private. Sorry to ruin your good time, but I'd say this matter is closed.

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1312300040' post='2770096']
No thanks to Xiphosis, who genuinely attempted to convince FARK into starting a war over the issue.
[/quote]

If Xiphosis actually did try to get FARK to respond to the attack by high NG gov on their alliance, more power to him.

Otherwise it looks like more hand holding and singing kumbaya around the campfire for the mega-blocs.

[berbers]

[quote name='King Xander the Only' timestamp='1312317381' post='2770293']
Didn't you just get your ass handed to you by running your mouth? I'd hate to see you make similar mistakes by ignoring your history.

The situation with Fark has been handled. If there is more to discuss, I'm certain that it will be NG and Fark discussing it, together, in private. Sorry to ruin your good time, but I'd say this matter is closed.
[/quote]

Yeah I'll be recovering for months....

That's fine with the situation being handled, I was just curious.

[Sephiroth]

If Fark still has any balls, they should declare on Non Grata for this.

[Vladius Dreadfire]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1312312349' post='2770237']
Cynic was as guilty as Fear- was for the spy op on FARK. If you read them logs you will know. And even besides that, he did more than that, that would constitute a ZI alone.
[/quote]
Right, so they're both as guilty as each other, yet the guy whose offence is less (imho anyway) is getting punished more? Okeydokey.


[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1312312755' post='2770239']
Non Grata gov approached FARK before Cynic 'exposed' it. The situation was handled privately between FARK and NG gov.

This entire topic has no point, other than an attempt at smearing our image and feeding Cynic's attention.


Fear's punishment has been set, and since FARK chose not to pursue anything more over something as trivial as a "gather intel" operation we can all move on.

EDIT: "trivial" as in not much to start a war over. Thought I should clarify that. I'm sure half of you will disagree though.
[/quote]
Right. Thanks for clearing that up. I still think Fear's punishment should be greater than Cynic's, given the many different potential repercussions that could have happened (e.g. NG getting rolled out like a pancake), but to each his own I suppose.


[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' timestamp='1312317354' post='2770292']
Don't worry, no one here is going to associate Pacifica with full and fair justice.
[/quote]
I didn't say anyone had to. I was merely making it clear to someone with a thick head how my being from the NPO has no bearing on my personal beliefs.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Vladius Dreadfire

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='berbers' timestamp='1312317147' post='2770288']
Didn't you just fight a war over someone stealing essentially the same information you get from a gather intel?[/quote]

I believe the situation involving Polar involved a number of nations, not just one. On the other hand, the individual at Polar was interested in intel and was handed a document that VE knew was going to him through a third party, whereas in this case the individual at NG did the spy op himself and then gave the information to the third party. VE was approached by Polar about their situation and VE wasn't interested in listening. NG approached Fark about their situation and Fark listened.

The situations are similar, but not entirely identical. Needless to say, NG would rather this go away at supersonic speed.

[the rebel]

[quote name='Diabloz' timestamp='1312309891' post='2770201']
Thing is the offender has been punished, [b]it was a mistake[/b]..and FARK understood that. I don't see why its bothering you?
[/quote]

A mistake? this wasnt just an ordinary rank and file member it was the head of the military, mistakes like that dont happen unless your military commanders are plebs?

[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1312312755' post='2770239']
Non Grata gov approached FARK before Cynic 'exposed' it. The situation was handled privately between FARK and NG gov.

This entire topic has no point, other than an attempt at smearing our image and feeding Cynic's attention.


Fear's punishment has been set, and since FARK chose not to pursue anything more over something as trivial as a "gather intel" operation we can all move on.

EDIT: [b]"trivial" as in not much to start a war over. Thought I should clarify that. I'm sure half of you will disagree though.[/b]
[/quote]

Really i find that hard to believe, so if a moderate sized alliance goverment member outside the center of the treaty web did a "trivial" spy attack on a member of NG, all you would do is hug and kiss and say "well was only the goverment making a mistake of spy attacking us and isnt a problem"?

I'm curious

Edited August 2, 2011 by the rebel

[Steve Buscemi]

[quote name='Vladius Dreadfire' timestamp='1312319717' post='2770328']
I didn't say anyone had to. I was merely making it clear to someone with a thick head how my being from the NPO has no bearing on my personal beliefs.
[/quote]
Actually the fact you are still in the NPO means you have no personal beliefs. If you did, they kick you out.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1312300040' post='2770096']
No thanks to Xiphosis, who genuinely attempted to convince FARK into starting a war over the issue.
[/quote]
If true, that's hilarious!

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Vladius Dreadfire' timestamp='1312311796' post='2770231']
My being a Pacifican has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I believe in full and fair justice. What I see here is far from that.
[/quote]

[quote name='Vladius Dreadfire' timestamp='1312319717' post='2770328']
I didn't say anyone had to. I was merely making it clear to someone with a thick head how my being from the NPO has no bearing on my personal beliefs.
[/quote]

Oh for the love of [i]god[/i]. I'm sick to death of Pacificans playing the moralism card. It's hypocritical, dishonest and downright pathetic. The facade about feeling maltreated and oppressed fools nobody. With your spectacular history of callousness and apathy towards what is right and what is wrong, your real motivation behind this supposed change of heart is completely transparent. 'Full and fair justice'. Ha.

[the rebel]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1312324694' post='2770415']
Oh for the love of [i]god[/i]. I'm sick to death of Pacificans playing the moralism card. It's hypocritical, dishonest and downright pathetic. The facade about feeling maltreated and oppressed fools nobody.[/quote]

Wow...Just wow... So everyone is a clone without free thought and hive mind? Prehaps you need to calm down and think of your blood pressure.

[Kalasin]

[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1312325092' post='2770428']
Wow...Just wow... So everyone is a clone without free thought and hive mind? Prehaps you need to calm down and think of your blood pressure.
[/quote]

I'm perfectly calm. I simply believe that if this guy is a genuine moralist he should join another alliance.

[the rebel]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1312325232' post='2770433']
I'm perfectly calm. I simply believe that if this guy is a genuine moralist he should join another alliance.
[/quote]

"Moralist" or not, he decided to join an alliance that hasnt done anything "immoral" in years and im sure if that time comes when he disagrees with something against his "morals" he would leave...

Edited August 2, 2011 by the rebel

[Zoomzoomzoom]

[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1312321669' post='2770358']
Really i find that hard to believe, so if a moderate sized alliance goverment member outside the center of the treaty web did a "trivial" spy attack on a member of NG, all you would do is hug and kiss and say "well was only the goverment making a mistake of spy attacking us and isnt a problem"?

I'm curious
[/quote]

I suppose you have a point.

Regardless, NG was completely honest and up front about the incident and it was in no way orchestrated for a deeper purpose. Thus war was not necessary. I'm sure we'd have seen a much different situation had the spy operation been something that causes malicious harm.

Had there been a cover up of the situation we'd see a lot less "well handled" posts from members of the community.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Zoomzoomzoom

[Vladius Dreadfire]

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1312323741' post='2770392']
Actually the fact you are still in the NPO means you have no personal beliefs. If you did, they kick you out.
[/quote]
I beg to differ.


[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1312324694' post='2770415']
Oh for the love of [i]god[/i]. I'm sick to death of Pacificans playing the moralism card. It's hypocritical, dishonest and downright pathetic. The facade about feeling maltreated and oppressed fools nobody. With your spectacular history of callousness and apathy towards what is right and what is wrong, your real motivation behind this supposed change of heart is completely transparent. 'Full and fair justice'. Ha.
[/quote]
I have played no such card. Is it really so hard for you to accept the fact that someone in Pacifica really does believe in fairness and justice?

"Aww noes, I'm so sad I didn't get to participate in over 9000 curbstomps four years ago, I'm so gutted I didn't get to bring the red jackboot down on pathetic little wormy alliances, I'm so friggin' upset I didn't get to shove my bloodstained pistol up the ass of some retarded leader and order him around under threat of having a bullet enter his anus and exit his mouth, aww maaaaan."

If you're wanting to blame someone for that callousness, you're looking at the wrong Pacifican.

[Diabloz]

The fact that a pacifican is calling for fairness just makes me think of you as hypocrite.

Cynic was not punished because of the FARK incident and i think we have actually already stated that more than 10 times. I think you really need to go back and read the whole thread again.

Cynic is just asking for attention nothing more, and trying to cause 'drama' in his failure way.

[Vladius Dreadfire]

[quote name='Diabloz' timestamp='1312327506' post='2770453']
The fact that a pacifican is calling for fairness just makes me think of you as hypocrite.

Cynic was not punished because of the FARK incident and i think we have actually already stated that more than 10 times. I think you really need to go back and read the whole thread again.

Cynic is just asking for attention nothing more, and trying to cause 'drama' in his failure way.
[/quote]
A Pacifican calling for justice is not allowed simply because he/she is a Pacifican? Grow the $%&@ up man.

It doesn't disprove my point either, which is that in this situation, Cynic is being unjustly treated. Now, to be fair, I don't know the guy and I couldn't give two !@#$% about him. But it boils my blood when someone commits a frankly criminal act and gets a lenient punishment, say for example, if a thief gets eight years in jail but a murderer gets five. You follow my drift?

I know you've repeated yourselves constantly but did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason you need to keep repeating stuff is because you're not actually answering the heart of the question(s)?

In this incident, Cynic is the thief and Fear is the murderer. That my friend, is my problem. Can I do much about it? No. Can I argue the !@#$ out of this thing? Hell yes.

[Hereno]

Yeah honestly I can't see any reason to fault NG here. Stop arguing for the sake of arguing and let this cesspool of a thread die.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Hereno

[Diabloz]

[quote name='Vladius Dreadfire' timestamp='1312328511' post='2770464']
A Pacifican calling for justice is not allowed simply because he/she is a Pacifican? Grow the $%&@ up man.

It doesn't disprove my point either, which is that in this situation, Cynic is being unjustly treated. Now, to be fair, I don't know the guy and I couldn't give two !@#$% about him. But it boils my blood when someone commits a frankly criminal act and gets a lenient punishment, say for example, if a thief gets eight years in jail but a murderer gets five. You follow my drift?

I know you've repeated yourselves constantly but did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason you need to keep repeating stuff is because you're not actually answering the heart of the question(s)?

In this incident, Cynic is the thief and Fear is the murderer. That my friend, is my problem. Can I do much about it? No. Can I argue the !@#$ out of this thing? Hell yes.
[/quote]

It's our alliance, we run it however we want. We punish people how we see is most fitting...Cynic has tried to sabotage a important treaty with our friends from happening, he log dumped some logs to try prove a point and cause NG harm..

You sir need to keep your big nose out of our business and go get something to do, you really aren't proving anything to me..

[Vladius Dreadfire]

[quote name='Diabloz' timestamp='1312330009' post='2770485']
It's our alliance, we run it however we want. We punish people how we see is most fitting...Cynic has tried to sabotage a important treaty with our friends from happening, he log dumped some logs to try prove a point and cause NG harm..

You sir need to keep your big nose out of our business and go get something to do, you really aren't proving anything to me..
[/quote]
Ahaha...yeah, everyone would say "this is our alliance, we can run it however we wanna run it". It's really nothing more than a way of saying "I don't have a way to match your argument so I'm just going to stuff my fingers in my ears and scream like a baby until you go away".

Firstly, I doubt he tried to sabotage a treaty single-handedly, by posting some damning logs no less. He's not a retard, you know (actually, you probably think he is, just because he's your enemy now). In the event, he [i]has[/i] caused NG harm, seeing as everybody now knows that Non Grata will [s]allow it's members to get away with spying[/s] give lenient punishment to alliance spies (and spare me the !@#$%^&*, this guy was not some low-rank grunt, he was the !@#$@#$ Minister of Defence).

And secondly, again "get your nose outta mah business" is the same as "this is our alliance, we can run it however we wanna run it". It's not going to work, so you need to give up and go home right now if you haven't got anything good to bring to the table.

[kwell]

[quote name='Vladius Dreadfire' timestamp='1312331155' post='2770515']
Ahaha...yeah, everyone would say "this is our alliance, we can run it however we wanna run it". It's really nothing more than a way of saying "I don't have a way to match your argument so I'm just going to stuff my fingers in my ears and scream like a baby until you go away".

Firstly, I doubt he tried to sabotage a treaty single-handedly, by posting some damning logs no less. He's not a retard, you know (actually, you probably think he is, just because he's your enemy now). In the event, he [i]has[/i] caused NG harm, seeing as everybody now knows that Non Grata will [s]allow it's members to get away with spying[/s] give lenient punishment to alliance spies (and spare me the !@#$%^&*, this guy was not some low-rank grunt, he was the !@#$@#$ Minister of Defence).

And secondly, again "get your nose outta mah business" is the same as "this is our alliance, we can run it however we wanna run it". It's not going to work, so you need to give up and go home right now if you haven't got anything good to bring to the table.
[/quote]

Sounds to me like they handled the situation correctly. The "mod" went rogue by log dumping information to cause harm to NG (this is why he is considered rogue). Ng, being diplomatic, decided to kick him out and zi him instead of getting rolled. This is what rogues deserve. It is just a singular zi (depending on his war chest, it may only cost him money and tech). It isn't eternal zi. What else were they suppose to do? They could have been like polar, and still keep him around, thus creating an issue. They didn't, thus, no harm, no foul. Well, I take that back because it tested the relationship between Fark and NG.

Edited August 3, 2011 by kwell

[Trigger]

[quote name='Vladius Dreadfire' timestamp='1312331155' post='2770515']
Ahaha...yeah, everyone would say "this is our alliance, we can run it however we wanna run it". It's really nothing more than a way of saying "I don't have a way to match your argument so I'm just going to stuff my fingers in my ears and scream like a baby until you go away".

Firstly, I doubt he tried to sabotage a treaty single-handedly, by posting some damning logs no less. He's not a retard, you know (actually, you probably think he is, just because he's your enemy now). In the event, he [i]has[/i] caused NG harm, seeing as everybody now knows that Non Grata will [s]allow it's members to get away with spying[/s] give lenient punishment to alliance spies (and spare me the !@#$%^&*, this guy was not some low-rank grunt, he was the !@#$@#$ Minister of Defence).

And secondly, again "get your nose outta mah business" is the same as "this is our alliance, we can run it however we wanna run it". It's not going to work, so you need to give up and go home right now if you haven't got anything good to bring to the table.
[/quote]

You really do come across as a flaming idiot. I don't even see the point of explaining it to you, because of your inability to understand basic concepts... but I'll try.

First... Cynic being ZI'd has nothing to do with the Fark incident. The internal spying and log dumping to try and prevent a separate treaty from being signed is plenty of reason for that. Once that sentence was laid out, then this Fark issue was brought public. An issue that was already resolved in private channels. It really doesn't compare to past examples that are being thrown around because NG actually went to Fark with this information first.

Second... What Cynic did was far worse in the eyes of most. Who do you think should deserve the most severe punishment? Cynic's crime was far worse in my eyes because he was a member of our family. He took that trust and crapped on it, leaking internal logs. The proposed treaty partner is the one that brought this to out attention. Read again that this was not involving Fark.

Third... No one here really cares if you think the punishment is just. There are only two entities that matter here. NG for Cynic as we feel we were wronged by him. Fark for our member. No one else was affected by this. If Fark finds the situation resolved then thats all that matters. There should be no bawwwing or crying involved from the outside. No cries of "Hypocrocy"! Its only hypocritical if Fark handled this exact situation differently in the past.

Fourth... you're a flaming idiot... can't say that enough.

Edit: basic typos... I'm sure there are more...

Edited August 3, 2011 by Trigger