The NEW Story, Why We Do What We Do

[suryanto tan]

Selamat Pagi, Dunia

Dear esteemed citizens of Planet Bob,

Greeting,

If you are among the people who were wondering what has happened between Zombie Defense Plan and us, and interested to know more about it, you have come to the right place. Here, you will find your answer. And I hope it serves your curiosity.

But if you are here, looking for us to see us defending our action, if you expect us to argue about the "morality" of our action in this game, I am sorry to disappoint you, for you will not find any. None can make a good defense for the unprovoked agression they started without making themselves looked foolish.

You also will not find me blaming or trying to accuse ZDP of any wrong doing, because they are fine people. They have been very nice and easy to deal with. In the beginning of our conversation, Yevgeni, one of the leader of ZDP, says "Selamat pagi", which means "Good morning", in Indonesian. We love him.

However, in this post, you will find some explanation of why we behave the way we do. Why we do what we do. I am not saying it is the "right" thing to do, we just choose to play the way we play. So, save your breath. You do not have to say, "BUT, MUM..., THEY ARE WRONG....". We know.

It is my sincere hope that this post will give you some new perspective of how people might choose to play this game differently. That your style of play in this game is not the only valid choice. I applaud the decision of some of you make that bring real life morality to the game to get some political advantage over the others, but I pity those of you who blindly believe what they preached to you about the "right" or "wrong" in this game, and cannot see other alternative way to enjoy this lovely game. Are you too stupid to think for yourself? I pity you. Yes, you. Not you, but him. Yes, you, the one with funny face... No, not you, you are the ugly face not the funny face...

The ZDP and NEW Story

The incident between ZDP and NEW started from an agression by one of our members, Yoyoabc, against Brother-Kane, a member of ZDP.

Yevgeni along with Brother Kane came to our channel, queried Aming, one of our members, who then redirected him to Sangar, our Minister of Foreign Affairs. Soon the discussion started with ZDP asking reps for the damage inflicted by yoyoabc.

In the middle of the conversation, Yevgeni asked if Aming would not mind leaving the channel since he is not in the government nor useful. Felt insulted, Aming then decided to attack Brother Kane, who happened to be in his NS range, to vent his anger. In addition to 2 ground attacks, he also used his spy and succesfully destroyed some cash.

In the mean time (before Aming launched the attacks), conversation between Sangar and Yevgeni continued. After Sangar refused to pay reps, Yevgeni asked if Sangar realized that it would become a week long war between Brother Kane and Yoyoabc, to which Sangar said yes. Sangar added, that no one will intervene as long as, it kept that way.

However, Sangar did not convey the message about the 1 vs 1 war to the entire alliance (I do not blame him. He has better things to do with his time). Or at least, did not convey it to rest of the members fast enough. He did post the entire conversation log in our forums though. Well, as you might have heard the rumor about how fast NEW jumping in a raid target, Sweet Chin jumped in, like a hungry wolf without any idea of what has happened.

Mediated by Crymson from TOP, with the help of Jbone our friend from TPF, NEW agreed to offer peace, on the condition that no reps will be paid by NEW. NEW then offered peace. At this point, ZDP did not agree on peace without reps. With ZDP keep demanding reps, and crystally clear that NEW will not pay it, the peace agreement could not be reached. And hostility resumed.

Some of ZDP nations declared on Aming and Sweet chin to defend Brother Kane. Seeing that, our members declared on whoever declare on Aming and Sweet Chin. Then ZDP members, declared on one of our other members originally uninvolved in the war. Then the rest of the story, it spread wider and wider.

(See here, i did not say who is right or wrong. It is not the intention of this wall of text to claim so.)

I did not involve in the negotiation process until much later. I was summoned into IRC in the middle of my work. I said this, but I will say it again, I hate NEW, for ruining my lovely afternoon.

I can tell you that Sangar did not have intention to break the agreement to keep the war 1 vs 1, nor he lied. It is carelessness on our behalf, I admit. I have explained this to Yevgeni and he said he understood my explanation very well, but think it was unacceptable.

Well, if you see now, in the IC forum, you still can see those uninformed people thinking that they know what happened, and keep saying, "YOU LIE, YOU LIE", meh, that makes me sad. Some have their own political agenda to push, thus they play it that way. But some are completely brainless and just follow the crowd. Are you too stupid to think for yourself?

Then, Yevgeni asked for reps, 18 Million if I remembered it right, for the SPY operation "Destroying Money" that Aming did. Regardless the amount, I was pretty sure that we will refuse it. But, I had to consult my superior, regardless, before giving the definite answer. I promised to talk to them 24 hours later.

The next day, things had gone public. Believing that IAA and ZDP has planned an assault against us, mhawk from TPF posted in OWF to invite them to have a "public talk". Perhaps, to scare them off or what, I have no idea of knowing.

I joined the discussion table with Yevgeni and some of his friends and that was the moment when he said, "Selamat pagi". The first part of the discussion was full of statements saying "Accept the reps. It is cheap, compare to what you have to loss if they were to nuke us" from his friends with us replying, "Please do, we do not care". And they seem to be puzzled, but Yevgeni know us, explained to them that we truly do not care. Perhaps he had known how we play the game. There were once we, in NEW, nuked each other for fun. "Hah?". Yeah.

At this point the amount of reps has reduced to 9M from us to them, and 3M from them to us. I still refused. I insisted we won't pay reps, but peace offer is always available.

They then, decided to talk to my superior, and soon we have my superior joined the discussion. Unfortunately, I had to leave. After some short discussion, my superior agreed on the newly proposed reps amount. And that is how it settled.

Why We do what we do

Many of our members are good people. Some of them are vegetarians, who sincerely believe that killing any living things even for food, is a horrible sin. But then, why they do this aweful sins of tech raiding, you ask?

Because we choose to play it this way. We choose to neglect your moral standard and play it our way. This is a game and we treat it as a game. Something is seriously wrong with you, not us, if you sincerely believe we are bad people for playing the way we play the game.

Many of our newer members that we invite from our offsite forum Kaskus, joined this game and NEW alliance under the promise of the joy of the war. A lot of them are gamers that have been accustomed to a lot of other games and the way they play those games is not like the way we play it here. From day one, since they joined the game, they have expected a good joy of war. If we were to keep them in this game, we have to keep them entertained.

If tech raiding is OK, what is not OK to you?

Threatening to hurt someone in real life, abandon your allies to safe yourself, betray the trust of a friend, extorts people, among others.

What is actually OK, but you have choosen not to do?

Raiding an alliance of 100 members. Raiding with using cruise missiles, aircraft, and nuclears. We do not believe in raiding for profit. We raid for fun.

We know we won't survive if we do that. Thus, we adapt and compromise.

Will you see one day, NEW ban tech raiding altogether?

YES. When it is no longer an option for us.

What were you thinking when you kept refusing the reps? Don't you worry about being declared on by the entire world?

The way I picture it: if this did escalate to the entire world declaring on us, we will fight back, fiercefully like any figther should do. Then, if we loss the fight, we will surrender, like any defeated soldiers, and comply with the surrender term offered. That is the way I envisioned it, and we were ready to play that scenario should it come to that.

I laughed when I see people disband their alliance when they are about to be curbstomped. What is wrong with losing, once in a while?

Is this an invitation for all, that they can just attack you whenever they feel like it?

NO. If an alliance has issue with us, we encourage them to try to solve the dispute with us through the diplomatic channel. We will be always opened for discussion.

I see you are reckless in your behaviour. What do you have to say?

No. We are not like what we seem to be. It just looked that way. But it is not true.

We care a lot about the well being of our members and above all the well being of our allies.

We have negotiated ourselves out of many conflicts.

Can you give me an example of fabricated morality, there were once embraced and believed by the world?

"Do not use nuclear weapons propaganda." Remembered the day when the entire world attacked GPA, and they somehow (I have no idea why) take the beat nicely and agreed on not using their nuclear weapons. They even expeled their own member from their alliance simply because that member used the nuclear weapons.

Anything else?

Some of you has hold grudge against NEW, and will probably see this as a good chance to jump on us. A good chance to attack us without having to deal with public outcry. To you, I simply suggest you to play based on goal, not grudge. But if you want us badly, why not.

Some of you are just simply bored, and are looking for an excuse to attack just anybody, and entertain your member. And you probably see this as your chance, now that a lot of people seem to think that we deserve it. Well, we would rather to be friend with you. God knows how the future will shape out. But if you want us badly, why not.

We are aware that many people have their own agenda, and will try to ride on this conflict and take advantage of our unpopular political position today. You perhaps think you will be hail by the world as the heroes, if you attack us now, with everybody think we deserve it.

We kindly ask you to back off. Your gain is not gonna equal your loss. But if you want us badly, why not.

Trivia

We received this private message,

To: gantanX From: Dr. Dan Date: 12/15/2009 12:10:55 AM

Subject: The Deal

Message: Here's the lowdown.

I'm quitting the game. Now, you have the option of me nuke roguing your alliance for the next year (yes, I have that much money) or making good on your alliance's promise to make it 1v1 against BK.

I'll give you 24 hours. Any attacks on me by your nation or those of your alliance will make this a most unpleasant scenario for you guys. I assure you that I've been arming for this for over a year as I'm sure you'll find out.

Also, guess people from ZDP do have the balls to attack you. lol at your bio. .

And then,

I hope you enjoy the read. And I hope this writing serves it purpose.

tl,dr: We choose to play the way we play not because we believed it is "right". We simply decide that this is how we will play this game. We do not play this game so that we can show you that we are good people.

[Khalai Protoss]

I read the tl;dr, and will read the rest of the OP later. Everyone is entitled to their style of play, and if you all choose this path, then so be it. I'm glad you aren't trying to pretend like you're something you're not. After all it is a game, and if this is fun for you, why stop? Good show NEW.

Edited December 17, 2009 by Khalai Protoss

[Feanor Noldorin]

Dr. Dan was deleted by admin. You didn't bill lock him into deletion or have any hand in it whatsoever. So what's the point of putting that there?

Edited December 17, 2009 by Feanor Noldorin

[suryanto tan]

Dr. Dan was deleted by admin. You didn't bill lock him into deletion or have any hand in it whatsoever.

I know. it is just funny.

We do not claim we have any hand in it.

From some dictionary:

trivia: noun, Something or things that are unimportant

Edited December 17, 2009 by suryanto tan

[gantanX]

Dr. Dan was deleted by admin. You didn't bill lock him into deletion or have any hand in it whatsoever.

we know, he probably step on a land mine or whatever but that was just so damn fun to see

at least he say goodbye to me

P.S. you dont get deleted because of bill locked

[wickedj]

I read the tl;dr, and will read the rest of the OP later. Everyone is entitled to their style of play, and if you all choose this path, then so be it. I'm glad you aren't trying to pretend like you're something you're not. After all it is a game, and if this is fun for you, why stop? Good show NEW.

This good fellow summed it all up in the first post. everyone can pack up and head home

[Ashley Smith]

Long overdue. Standing up for what's REALLY right. Heck yes, foreigners. You just won

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

Hem. Happy to see it pleased you. Thought it was simple courtesy to salute you in your language.

Other than that, good luck in the future. We had many good exchanges with your members.

[Heft]

Dr. Dan was deleted by admin. You didn't bill lock him into deletion or have any hand in it whatsoever. So what's the point of putting that there?

The irony of Dr Dan complaining about NEW's behavior in-game while he himself was cheating, I would presume. Hilarious.

Good story.

[Ray Matveyev]

Honestly, there aren't enough people like you: who play the game for what it is, and not its politics.

[Joe Kremlin]

Honestly, there aren't enough people like you: who play the game for what it is, and not its politics.

I can't imagine why anyone would play this game for anything besides the politics.

[New Frontier]

I, for one, like NEW.

[Imperium of Poliz]

I guess it comes down to hair-splitting...

Is CN a nation-building game with a war feature;

Or a war game facilitated by nation building and diplomatic elements?

In Almighty Admin's own words, 'In the most general of descriptions, Cyber Nations is a browser-based game about simulating nation building and management through economic development and defending one's interests in war.' [1]

The way I see it, regardless of how Admin intended the game to be played both are valid. I guess it comes down to the individual, and then flocks of individuals who joined and created Alliances to determine the way they make use of the functionality of the Nation they control.

Sauces:

[1] Soy http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/v...f-Cyber-Nations

Edited December 17, 2009 by Imperium of Poliz

[Bilrow]

The irony of Dr Dan complaining about NEW's behavior in-game while he himself was cheating, I would presume. Hilarious.

Good story.

We should be thankful for TOP once again stepping in and averting another war.

*wipes his brow*

What would we do with out them watching over and parenting the cyberverse?

[suryanto tan]

The irony of Dr Dan complaining about NEW's behavior in-game while he himself was cheating, I would presume. Hilarious.

Good story.

Finally, one with a good sense of humor.

Good that you like it, Heft.

[D34th]

Raid is fail.

Yeah some of polaris allies do tech raid.

This still fail.

[Rush Sykes]

I sincerely hope I come across the way I intend to come across in this thread.

First, let me say, you guys are an impressive lot, and I admire the way you play this game. I was rather harsh verbally towards your alliance in that drama. To be honest, my problem was with agreeing to terms, and then breaking them. I will not apologize for my words concerning that, because, in as much as you play this game for the war, I play this game for the politics and the relations. Your word is your biggest weapon in this game, much more powerful than even Polaris' nuclear arsenal. Your alliance may well be an alliance whos word means something, although to me, it does not appear this way.

I speak from a purely Athens perspective, which, in this case, is a unique perspective. You see, my alliance, through EVERY fault of our own making, was recently dragged through the mud by much of this planet based on a war(I wont argue tech raid vs war, because it really is pointless). The reason we were dragged through the mud was not out of one iota of concern for our target, but by 1) ire against us and 2) "violating an accepted CN standard". It is with reason number 2, that I reacted in the way I did to your breech of the agreement to keep the raid 1v1. It is because you have come here with grace, presenting your case, that the very same people who were so disgusted by Athens violation of the accepted CN standard, will almost unanimously roundly hail you for your forthrightness. If an Athens gov member made an agreement, then didnt tell the rest of Athens in a timely manner, and someone in Athens broke that agreement, we would once again be faced with hordes of criticism of the "epic failure and lack of functionality of our government." It would be unacceptable for us to say for instance, that "Londo got busy with real life, and was unable to communicate this agreement to the rest of us in a timely manner.(even if it were 100% the truth)" It is my guess, that this form of double standard that exists on CN, is probably the reason that you guys play as you do, and for that I solute you.

Truly, I bear no ill will whatsoever to NEW, your reputation as fierce fighters and warriors within the machinations of Cybernations, is well known, and I would be honored to fight alongside you. Even more than that, I appreciate more than any words can ever express, your probably completely accidental exposing of the BS of the CN community and the "accepted standards" that certain alliances are held to. Keep doin' it right NEW.

Edited December 17, 2009 by Rush Sykes

[Some-Guy]

Dr. Dan was deleted by admin. You didn't bill lock him into deletion or have any hand in it whatsoever. So what's the point of putting that there?

Stupidity?

Antagonism?

Lols?

[suryanto tan]

I sincerely hope I come across the way I intend to come across in this thread.

First, let me say, you guys are an impressive lot, and I admire the way you play this game. I was rather harsh verbally towards your alliance in that drama. To be honest, my problem was with agreeing to terms, and then breaking them. I will not apologize for my words concerning that, because, in as much as you play this game for the war, I play this game for the politics and the relations. Your word is your biggest weapon in this game, much more powerful than even Polaris' nuclear arsenal. Your alliance may well be an alliance whos word means something, although to me, it does not appear this way.

I speak from a purely Athens perspective, which, in this case, is a unique perspective. You see, my alliance, through EVERY fault of our own making, was recently dragged through the mud by much of this planet based on a war(I wont argue tech raid vs war, because it really is pointless). The reason we were dragged through the mud was not out of one iota of concern for our target, but by 1) ire against us and 2) "violating an accepted CN standard". It is with reason number 2, that I reacted in the way I did to your breech of the agreement to keep the raid 1v1. It is because you have come here with grace, presenting your case, that the very same people who were so disgusted by Athens violation of the accepted CN standard, will almost unanimously roundly hail you for your forthrightness. If an Athens gov member made an agreement, then didnt tell the rest of Athens in a timely manner, and someone in Athens broke that agreement, we would once again be faced with hordes of criticism of the "epic failure and lack of functionality of our government." It would be unacceptable for us to say for instance, that "Londo got busy with real life, and was unable to communicate this agreement to the rest of us in a timely manner.(even if it were 100% the truth)" It is my guess, that this form of double standard that exists on CN, is probably the reason that you guys play as you do, and for that I solute you.

Truly, I bear no ill will whatsoever to NEW, your reputation as fierce fighters and warriors within the machinations of Cybernations, is well known, and I would be honored to fight alongside you. Even more than that, I appreciate more than any words can ever express, your probably completely accidental exposing of the BS of the CN community and the "accepted standards" that certain alliances are held to. Keep doin' it right NEW.

I have read your post thoroughly and comprehend all of it.

Your post does not need my respond, but I quote it anyway because I like the way you state it.

I thank you for your support. And I admire your fairness and sportiveness.

Edited December 17, 2009 by suryanto tan

[rsoxbronco1]

I guess this officially ends the argument that nobody in NEW speaks English well.

EDIT: That's not me being sarcastic. It's a well written OP.

Edited December 17, 2009 by rsoxbronco1

[wickedj]

I can't imagine why anyone would play this game for anything besides the politics.

You mean you didnt come here with the intentions of wrecking someone elses nation? Well !@#$ i did this politics crap is a poor side effect...

[Doitzel]

We should be thankful for TOP once again stepping in and averting another war.

*wipes his brow*

What would we do with out them watching over and parenting the cyberverse?

Lose our pixels! D:

[yoyoabc]

I guess this officially ends the argument that nobody in NEW speaks English well.

EDIT: That's not me being sarcastic. It's a well written OP.

I believe there was never an argument. Anyway, for clarification:

We have always been known as a Indonesian based alliance and a lot of other alliances know that some of us are not located in Indonesia at all and living in countries where English is the first language, eg. Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, etc. Thus, a few of us does speak english well.

Unfortunately, we have a huge bunch of members who are living in Indonesia where English is the third language and that number makes up to about 80% of NEW members.

[LegendoftheSkies]

This OP was a good read. We seem to be of a similar mind. I wish you guys well in the future.

o/ NEW

[Augustus Autumn]

What an unapologetic pile of trash. Y'all act like self-righteous raiders, then run crying when things get serious and hide behind lame excuses like not understanding what the other party is saying. And no, I'm not using this incident as the sole time you've done that. But thanks anyway for the fun story.