A Statement from Doomhouse

[Indian Bob]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1301615023' post='2681716']
At the same time, it would be incorrect to say there was no pressure on anyone at the time to participate in NPO's system. You can look at what was done to the few alliances that either didn't want to be a part of it or were excluded intentionally.
[/quote]

Did they get declared on pre-emptively because they would "probably" join a war they had no treaty obligations to join?

[Kilkenny]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1301615023' post='2681716']
At the same time, it would be incorrect to say there was no pressure on anyone at the time to participate in NPO's system. You can look at what was done to the few alliances that either didn't want to be a part of it or were excluded intentionally.
[/quote]


And there is no pressure at all to adhere to DH's system?? isn't that part of the reasoning behind attacking NPO, and their not having "changed" is they didn't do enough, in your opinion, to come around to your side??

and as far as not bringing up anything Umbrella did in the past when you weren't around, I will tell you what. I won't bring it up ever ever ever again, if you, and those in Umbrella, Don't bring up TPF's actions in UJP as justification for your hatred. We have an entirely new gov, 85% or better, members who weren't in TPF at that time, and the guy in charge who did everything, Slayer99, is no longer amoung the living on Planet Bob.

seems fair to me.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Indian Bob' timestamp='1301615568' post='2681726']
Did they get declared on pre-emptively because they would "probably" join a war they had no treaty obligations to join?
[/quote]

As a matter of fact...

[King Charge]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1301613930' post='2681700']
GPA still gets dragged up even though I had nothing to do with it and was not in the alliance at the time and have been in charge for over 2 years at this point. Equating Genmay with Umbrella at this point is hilarious given the actual composition of the leadership and membership. So yes, the great crime of ochocinco's bandwagon oA entry shall go down in infamy. Never forget in spite of the fact that no government at all from that period remains and all three people who signed it have been dead and gone for a long long time.
[/quote]

Yeah, I wish people could just move on and distinguish that alliances from years ago, with new leadership and membership, are much different than they are today and shouldn't be held accountable for their past mistakes.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1301613930' post='2681700']
GPA still gets dragged up even though I had nothing to do with it and was not in the alliance at the time and have been in charge for over 2 years at this point. Equating Genmay with Umbrella at this point is hilarious given the actual composition of the leadership and membership. So yes, the great crime of ochocinco's bandwagon oA entry shall go down in infamy. Never forget in spite of the fact that no government at all from that period remains and all three people who signed it have been dead and gone for a long long time.
[/quote]

I would say that once you do the same for others, Umbrella may get the same consideration. Until Umbrella treats others as it wishes to be treated, well you know the Golden Rule and all that.

[Monster]

NPO retains much of the same leadership yet claims to have changed whereas I can illustrate a clear difference in composition. So it's a false equivalency, to be honest. I can also say the war on GPA was wrong and have said it before this war took place.

[Geoffron X]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1301623389' post='2681808']
NPO retains much of the same leadership yet claims to have changed whereas I can illustrate a clear difference in composition. So it's a false equivalency, to be honest. I can also say the war on GPA was wrong and have said it before this war took place.
[/quote]
I'm still looking for the records, but I'm pretty sure the only IO we have that was an IO then is Mary, who was internal affairs, and probably not very closely affiliated with the decision to go to war. So, if you're not guilty, then I'm pretty sure we aren't either.

EDIT: MariMassa MIGHT have been a General. I'm still trying to find dates.

Edited April 1, 2011 by Geoffron X

[Monster]

Well, that was before you made the Emperor switch official rather than an extended LoA. Cortath was an IO under Moo. Mary was Moo's Regent after all. Vektor was an IO as well. Bilrow and some of the others hadn't made it to IO yet but were on the track becoming IOs. I believe a prominent NPO official also said GPA instigated the fight earlier in this topic or I forget the thread, but jerdge quoted it in this one without attributing the name.

Oh, you're measurement is the GPA war by itself? I assumed you meant the entirety of NPO pre-Karma.

Edited April 1, 2011 by Antoine Roquentin

[Geoffron X]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1301624333' post='2681833']
Well, that was before you made the Emperor switch official rather than an extended LoA. Cortath was an IO under Moo. Mary was Moo's Regent after all. Vektor was an IO as well. Bilrow and some of the others hadn't made it to IO yet but were on the track becoming IOs. I believe a prominent NPO official also said GPA instigated the fight earlier in this topic.
[/quote]
Vektor wasn't an IO until four months after GPA, and Bilrow wasn't even in the alliance yet.

[Monster]

[quote name='Geoffron X' timestamp='1301624657' post='2681849']
Vektor wasn't an IO until four months after GPA, and Bilrow wasn't even in the alliance yet.
[/quote]

I'm not focusing on the GPA war exclusively with NPO, it's just the event that people dragged up about Umbrella doing something bad.

[wes the wise]

Can't we all just get along and be friends?

[flak attack]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1301617696' post='2681749']
As a matter of fact...
[/quote]
I think there's a funny story there...

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1301618584' post='2681754']
I would say that once you do the same for others, Umbrella may get the same consideration. Until Umbrella treats others as it wishes to be treated, well you know the Golden Rule and all that.
[/quote]
I would say that signing a bloc with VE, an alliance that has been quite adamant about the fact that there will not be a second War on Peace is doing just that.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1301627693' post='2681882']
I think there's a funny story there...


I would say that signing a bloc with VE, an alliance that has been quite adamant about the fact that there will not be a second War on Peace is doing just that.
[/quote]

To my knowledge, VE is not Umbrella for one. And NPO has not done a thing hegemonic since Karma. That, to me at least, adds up to much more than signing with VE. So using your standard of measurement (which is quite thin really), NPO is dramatically different today (and prior to the war) than they were pre-Karma.

I honestly suggest ya'll stop stating how different your alliances are while you continue to give some half-assed reasons as to why NPO/et al are the same. There is as much evidence that Umbrella is the same Umbrella who hit GPA as there is that NPO is the same NPO that hit GPA. There is also as much evidence that Umbrella is dramatically different than the Umbrella who hit GPA as there is that NPO is dramatically different than the NPO that hit GPA.

[Vol Navy]

One of our members was told recently by a member of UMB that we were being attacked for the whole UJP stuff that happened almost 4 years ago under completely different leadership and alliance makeup. Hell, I've been in TPF for over 3 years and I wasn't there for the UJP. Talk about people not being able to let things go...

[Monster]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1301628312' post='2681887']
To my knowledge, VE is not Umbrella for one. And NPO has not done a thing hegemonic since Karma. That, to me at least, adds up to much more than signing with VE. So using your standard of measurement (which is quite thin really), NPO is dramatically different today (and prior to the war) than they were pre-Karma.

I honestly suggest ya'll stop stating how different your alliances are while you continue to give some half-assed reasons as to why NPO/et al are the same. There is as much evidence that Umbrella is the same Umbrella who hit GPA as there is that NPO is the same NPO that hit GPA. There is also as much evidence that Umbrella is dramatically different than the Umbrella who hit GPA as there is that NPO is dramatically different than the NPO that hit GPA.
[/quote]

What's the evidence? It'll take a bit more since NPO organized the hit as opposed to Umbrella being a peripheral alliance that launched few attacks. I don't think Mary was opposed to it or anything.

I haven't ever seen NPO say it was a bad thing when I've said it was every time it came up.

Vol Navy: I can guess who it was but he doesn't really keep up with politics so for him, you're the same alliance.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1301634335' post='2681946']
What's the evidence? It'll take a bit more since NPO organized the hit as opposed to Umbrella being a peripheral alliance that launched few attacks. I don't think Mary was opposed to it or anything.

I haven't ever seen NPO say it was a bad thing when I've said it was every time it came up.

Vol Navy: I can guess who it was but he doesn't really keep up with politics so for him, you're the same alliance.
[/quote]

Well as been proven with the FAN apology thread, even if they did, ya'll would say it was just for PR. Hey but prove me wrong. Maybe NPO will post a public apology to GPA and ya'll would hail them for their honest and sincere apology.

[Lord Velox]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1301638235' post='2682006']
Well as been proven with the FAN apology thread, even if they did, ya'll would say it was just for PR. Hey but prove me wrong. Maybe NPO will post a public apology to GPA and ya'll would hail them for their honest and sincere apology.
[/quote]
That apology's sincerity is doubtful,it's easy to apologize when under pressure of destruction.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Lord Velox' timestamp='1301648696' post='2682070']
That apology's sincerity is doubtful,it's easy to apologize when under pressure of destruction.
[/quote]

Thank you for proving my point beautifully.

[mattski133]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1301657812' post='2682111']
Thank you for proving my point beautifully.
[/quote]

I don't think anyone wants an apology from NPO. They've already made it clear how much those are worth.

http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Great_War_I

And I think FAN illustrated that point the last time they made one.

And for that one guy who said they didn't have a clear path into the war, we've already established they had two, 1) through the Legion-NpO treaty and 2) through the TPF-STA treaty. Neither were activated as NpO was slowly burned to the ground, thus raising incredible levels of paranoia throughout Doomhouse (read: HC's entire argument this war). Surely, if GOONS came to the aid of iFOK or Poison Clan or something, Invicta, Legion, TPF, and NPO would have remained out of the conflict and left us to our one-sided victory.

I for one am ashamed of my government and the feeble military minds of our allies, and they can expect my resignation henceforth regarding this blatant abuse of common sense.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1301660355' post='2682129']
I don't think anyone wants an apology from NPO. They've already made it clear how much those are worth.

http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Great_War_I

And I think FAN illustrated that point the last time they made one.
[/quote]

So for your first example you use Ivan who was no longer Emperor at the time he retracted that apology? Yup, totally represents NPO. Not to mention, that apology was forced by the CoaLUEtion as well. So, it is hardly typical of an apology.

As for an apology to GPA, if NPO were to post an apology right now to GPA and state how wrong they were, it would not be with a gun pointing at them. Though you have once more illustrated the fact that regardless of what NPO does, it would not matter. You and others are ground so heavily in a hatred of NPO that you can and only will see the worst in them. Thus, it matters not what NPO does at all. Even if NPO had prior to this kissed DH's ass so much that they came out with aqua noses ya'll would have still rolled them because you hate them and don't trust them.

Ya'll keep talking about how so beyond the past ya'll are and yet if this is true, then ya'll would be beyond what NPO did in said past. The fact that ya'll are so damned mired up in the wrongdoings of NPO from yesteryear only proves that ya'll the same alliances of yesteryear. Get the $%&@ over the past yourself before even attempting to tell others to do the same for you. Like I said, Golden Rule and all that. Ya'll treat others as if it is 2007-2008 which means ya'll should be treated as if it is 2007-2008. Once ya'll move up to the present 2011, then ya'll get treated as if it is 2011.

[AAAAAAAAAAGGGG]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1301632956' post='2681933']
One of our members was told recently by a member of UMB that we were being attacked for the whole UJP stuff that happened almost 4 years ago under completely different leadership and alliance makeup. Hell, I've been in TPF for over 3 years and I wasn't there for the UJP. Talk about people not being able to let things go...
[/quote]

TPF doesn't regret betraying UJP in that war, so there's really no reason for people to get over it. You even said specifically that when you join an alliance, you take on the baggage that alliance has - in Umbrella's case, it's involvement in the GPA war, which you're now using to state has tainted Umbrella forever. So in your case, wouldn't you say your being in TPF means you have to take the responsibility of betraying the UJP and forcefully disbanding NoV?

[Ubermeir]

Golden rule must be roll NPO, do on to others as they have done to you. Check, viceroy, awww viceroy is so despicable it had been outlawed, better just quadruple up on the roling...

[JT Jag]

On page one hundred and sixty-freaking four of this godforsaken topic, I'm going to bring this back up, an image that was posted way back on page 39.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/UEiEz.png[/img]

I'm fairly sure the conversation has not meaningfully expanded one iota from this in the last 125 pages.

[Owned-You]

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1301695909' post='2682472']
On page one hundred and sixty-freaking four of this godforsaken topic, I'm going to bring this back up, an image that was posted way back on page 39.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/UEiEz.png[/img]

I'm fairly sure the conversation has not meaningfully expanded one iota from this in the last 125 pages.
[/quote]

[font="'Lucida Sans Unicode"]This is still accurate and still funny...even after all those pages it hasn't lost it's potency one bit.[/font]

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1301693971' post='2682450']
TPF doesn't regret betraying UJP in that war, so there's really no reason for people to get over it. You even said specifically that when you join an alliance, you take on the baggage that alliance has - in Umbrella's case, it's involvement in the GPA war, which you're now using to state has tainted Umbrella forever. So in your case, wouldn't you say your being in TPF means you have to take the responsibility of betraying the UJP and forcefully disbanding NoV?
[/quote]


I don't know if the general body of TPF regrets their actions in UJP or not, mainly because most of them have no idea what it even was. They weren't on Bob yet when it happened. There is literally almost no one in TPF who was there and it hasn't been mentioned in years on our boards until the Umbrella member told one of our members that's why you were attacking us.

I would also argue that we paid for a lot of things in Karma. I mean we lost over half our membership, mostly to deletion and 90% of our pre-war NS. Then paid reps to boot at a time when we had about 3 members left in the alliance with more than 20 million dollars left for warchests.

Roq is the one saying that Umbrella isn't responsible for the GPA stuff any more because leadership has changed. I would wager our membership turnover is way way higher since UJP than Umbrella's is since GPA got rolled. Our leadership is definitely way different. I don't think TCK had even found Bob when that occured. Slayer99 is long gone from the planet. We've paid our toll in blood 4 times over now for our past actions.

Either admit that you guys are going to continuously roll what's left of this side til the planet blows up or stop living for revenge for things that happened 3-4 years ago. If not, at least own up to the skeletons in your own closet instead of acting like you are pristine.