A Statement from Doomhouse

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1300931148' post='2674238']
No no. Short term, immediate situation, GOONS is doing ok. Long term, you've received, what's the latest number? Anywhere between 3-8 billion in war aid. Without this aid, you might not all be bill locked, but you would certainly not be doing anywhere near as much damage as you are (and let's be honest, a sizable chunk of your alliance [i]would[/i] be bill locked)..
[/quote]

If NPO hadn’t received so much military assistance they’d be far worse off, and if the assistance hadn’t been so focused on us we’d be receiving significantly less aid. Like I said, it's a bunch of 'ifs' and has no bearing on actual circumstances.

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1300931148' post='2674238']
This is evidence by GOONS posts in this thread bragging about how the aid they are getting is allowing them to do all this damage. Even longer term, asusming they gain control, they can't do anything with it. So they are "stuck".
[/quote]

The only scenario in which GOONS nations - those receiving aid - wouldn't be able to do anything with it is one in which the aid is not enough to sustain one's nation and to wage fight. Stuck? No, not at all, given that such a scenario is not likely in the least.

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1300931148' post='2674238']
I responded to this in my above post, but basically, if you keep your NS low, nothing happens. We get a stacked game, where GOONS controls the under 10K area, NPO&Co controls the 15-50K(ish) area, and Umbrella controls the over 50K area. Given that "we" aren't going to go up, we're going to go down and slowly squeeze GOONS down, requiring the aid flows. This is real long term, as in 4-6+ months.
[/quote]

I wouldn't count on much control, in any ranges, the longer this goes. Nothing will happen? Unless Doomhouse and company (including the reserves) are neutralized that won't be the case. And really, what are the chances of that? Honestly?.

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1300931148' post='2674238']
Good point. Again, a large part of my posts are based on teh current situation, as everything else becomes pure speculation. But alliances may join your side (or ours), alliance may peace out (on both sides), anything is possible. (On a personal note, I'd find it quite hilarious if after 'winning the war before it even started', as some on your side have claimed, you then required reinforcements after possibly the greatest CN aid lift in history).
[/quote]

It's not speculation though, it's how coalition warfare operates. As periphery fronts fold alliances move to the main hub(s).

As for the personal note, this front was won before it even started, yes. Nothing's changed in those regards. You disagree? Require reinforcements? Again, that's coalition warfare for you. I hope you're not surprised that alliances were going to inevitably shift over.

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1300931148' post='2674238']
Creating the hierarchy of NS. Given that, as you've implied, GOONS doesn't want to move up, that would make it much easier. I mean, is it guaranteed that we'd be able to pull this off? It's probable, if the situation doesn't change. Remember, no battle plan survives contact with the enemy
[/quote]

During this war, other than to come into ranges appropriate for nukes or for other military, no, GOONS has no desire to do a great deal of building up. It’d be an imprudent use of money to attempt a great deal of building.

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1300931148' post='2674238']
The aid flow, for reasons shown, won't help in the longterm.

It is, I showed it. If you have a nation (no wonders), it can fight solely off of aid for only a certain NS range. Above that, it encounters wonder nations and dies. If you have a nation with wonders, the aid flow can't support it above a certain NS range, and they die in combat. Aid flows only work if you're spending less then your taking in -- this doesn't happen in war at about the 15K NS range, or lower if you have wonders.
[/quote]

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1300932038' post='2674258']
The math is solid, although perhaps the same can't be said about the situation.
[/quote]

That's the thing though, your math and your points don't hold up. You presented an interpretation of numbers to fit your conclusions which, in light of fundamental aspects of both military and finances as well as common sense, are quite clearly being misinterpreted/misrepresented (which it is I'm not sure).

In the scenario you describe, nations with no wonders (almost entirely small nations to begin with), throughout prolonged war, will become increasingly smaller as time goes on (as they're whittled down), in which case available aid will go even further (for, for example, a 5k NS nation, the average Goon, compared to a 15k NS nation, the one you use in your example above).

[mattski133]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1301005078' post='2675137']
This post is hilarious for a huge number of reasons.

Is it the raw paranoia, the ignorance of upper tiers and mil wonders being the things that win wars, or is it the sad attempt to drive a wedge between 64Digita and NPO, when there isn't even a treaty there (We are here with our brothers in TPF).

I think is has to be the paranoia and revisionism though. Yeah, that definitely takes the cake.

Overall, an incredibly delusional post, and thus an entertaining read.
[/quote]

It's not paranoia if there is a justifiable reason behind it. That reason being it's happened a dozen times before.

Your brothers in TPF, loyal to NPO as they are, must not have read much about NPO and their philosophy regarding non-Pacificans. It's clear you haven't.

I think when you refer to revisionism you are accusing me of using incorrect information to back my case. I charge you to provide evidence. I get my facts from the NPO wiki. Good luck.

In closing, I think you like using the words paranoi-a, -d and hilarious, as well as delusional, when you have no valid rebuttal.

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1301006758' post='2675181']
It's not paranoia if there is a justifiable reason behind it. That reason being it's happened a dozen times before.

Your brothers in TPF, loyal to NPO as they are, must not have read much about NPO and their philosophy regarding non-Pacificans. It's clear you haven't.

I think when you refer to revisionism you are accusing me of using incorrect information to back my case. I charge you to provide evidence. I get my facts from the NPO wiki. Good luck.

In closing, I think you like using the words paranoi-a, -d and hilarious, as well as delusional, when you have no valid rebuttal.
[/quote]


We are quite happy with our relationship with NPO. NPO has been a fine ally to us and even sent out billions in aid that we never even asked for once they were released from Karma terms. We, unlike many on Bob, aren't good timing allies that jump ship when the wind blows ill. We are friends to hell and back. NPO has shown nothing but that friendship back to us over the past several years.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1301006758' post='2675181']
It's not paranoia if there is a justifiable reason behind it. That reason being it's happened a dozen times before.

Your brothers in TPF, loyal to NPO as they are, must not have read much about NPO and their philosophy regarding non-Pacificans. It's clear you haven't.

I think when you refer to revisionism you are accusing me of using incorrect information to back my case. I charge you to provide evidence. I get my facts from the NPO wiki. Good luck.

In closing, I think you like using the words paranoi-a, -d and hilarious, as well as delusional, when you have no valid rebuttal.
[/quote]
I don't need a rebuttal when you keep posting comedy gold like this. You rebut your own arguments by being a goddamned lunatic.

Especially love the touch you added, where you insist that I be the one to provide evidence to refute your absurdist claims.

FYI, GOONS is secretly led by a committee of invisible leprechauns set on getting vengeance against Santa and his army of elven warriors, prove me wrong.

[mattski133]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1301009015' post='2675235']
We are quite happy with our relationship with NPO. NPO has been a fine ally to us and even sent out billions in aid that we never even asked for once they were released from Karma terms. We, unlike many on Bob, aren't good timing allies that jump ship when the wind blows ill. We are friends to hell and back. NPO has shown nothing but that friendship back to us over the past several years.
[/quote]

I know. I'm just saying the philosophy of Francoism last I read it more or less put you guys in a class below NPO members in their eyes, and also suggests you're merely tools to achieve their ultimate goal of world conquest.

Maybe it's changed since then but that's the story I remember. It's also why, in my opinion, NPO allies catch so much heat for being, well, NPO allies. Which brings me to...

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1301009120' post='2675237']
I don't need a rebuttal when you keep posting comedy gold like this. You rebut your own arguments by being a goddamned lunatic.

Especially love the touch you added, where you insist that I be the one to provide evidence to refute your absurdist claims.

FYI, GOONS is secretly led by a committee of invisible leprechauns set on getting vengeance against Santa and his army of elven warriors, prove me wrong.
[/quote]

NPO has destroyed dozens of their own allies for offenses amounting to nothing by today's standards (like talking bad about them), and destroyed innocent bystanders for simply being there. Not to mention their enemies like MK and Umbrella. This is common knowledge. I don't understand why when I suggest it could very easily happen to you and your friends if NPO is allowed back into that kind of position, it makes me a lunatic.

Unless I realize I'm trying to reason with HeroofFINGTime.

[Richard Rahl]

[quote name='Believland' timestamp='1300996480' post='2674908']
Better late than never, but yes, it is. Fear and paranoia alone are not enough alone or even enough to stand up as a major reason.
[/quote]

The basis of every attack is fear and/or paranoia. There's not one CB that doesn't incorporate one or the other. Therefore, as the foundation, they are enough alone to justify a CB. You can pretend that your CBs are somehow holier or more morals than other CBs, but you're only fooling yourself.


e; are*

Edited March 24, 2011 by Richard Rahl

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1301002080' post='2675037']
Yes your posts have been a fair bit beyond retarded for quite a while now.

Is your english really as bad as your typing suggests or do you just choose to misread posts because you can't respond to the actual points being made? Read my post again and try to respond to what I actually wrote next time. You don't really want to make yourself look any dumber at this point.
[/quote]

Okay if you say so mate. I get that for propaganda purposes you need to insult posts but seriously? I have made valid points and pretty much the only refuting argument I get is "you are dumb"... and ya'll state I am the one with lack of reading comprehension and am retarded and stupid crap like that.

"That damage would be from legion moving their 100k+ people out to hit mk."

You stated this. I responded to it. There would be no damage to MK if Legion moves their 100k people out of PM cuz they would be hit by CnG. So please don't say I am misreading !@#$ or that I am not responding to your points. I did and you are the one who looks dumber for this reply.

[Monster]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1301005575' post='2675152']
STA's reasons for not asking TPF to defend us have been thoroughly explained elsewhere. I know YOU know this, but many folks may not. We did not call them in for two reasons... 1- At the time it was being considered, we really didn't need the help. We hadn't yet been hit by everyone who was going to hit us, and we were doing fine. 2- Given their experiences last time they joined a war to support Polaris, we felt it unfair to expect them to place themselves in that position again. We made this clear to TPF and let them know that we would only ask if we absolutely had to.
[/quote]

I needed it clarified, mostly because I've heard that you were unconditionally keeping TPF out to protect them at the expense of your other allies and what you've just said.

[Lao Pan]

If the NPO treat their allies so poorly why doesn't Doomhouse take the NPO's allies out of the equation and offer all of them white peace.

[Learz]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1300932262' post='2674265']
They might have to get 1-3 rounds of aid and back-collections in before they can fight again, but they can still slowly move up, and long term you won't have enough nations just above that rising barrier to take every rising nation down.

As that range widens the amount you'd have to aid your guys to get past it will grow significantly, especially as they have to achieve 133% of the NS barrier. There's another important factor you aren't considering that will also come into play here, but I'll leave that to you to figure out.
[/quote]
3 rounds of aid is roughly a month. It will take them several rounds to work us down, so we're looking at, say, 3-6 months? Assuming NPO&Co. suck, it might be less, but let's go with 3 months. In that time we'd have restocked nukes and warchests, and would be able to handle anyone coming up. If anything, we'd be working our way down, while nations on both sides would have locked aid slots supplying the lower nations.

You are also assuming that we'd be fighting this "normally", not going all out in a war for survival (like FAN). Additionally, once our aid flows get started, we'd have several volunteer nations getting hit by GOONS. Both sides would be getting pumped full of aid, only our chosen war nations would have full wonder sets, not to mention way more improvements. I mean, sure, given enough time (6-12 months?) I'm sure GOONS could wear us down. But it would be a very, very slow process, which goes back to my original point.


[quote name='rapmanej' timestamp='1300933353' post='2674281']
Not really. As previously stated, you don't have enough nations in warmode to send out adequate aid packets. In a very real sense, your coalition's policy currently has your lower tier bleeding out. When your lower tier nations finally run out of money, you will be forced to either a) force those nations to reroll or b) bring out upper tier nations to aid.

From these two options, it is obvious that the most logical response would be to simply war for one month, then get a simple peace with no reps, rather than let your lower NS nations bleed.
[/quote]
Well, peace with no reps actually isn't on the table, and from the statements given to us, that will not change. Likewise, we'll have plenty of nations in warmode: pretty much everyone under 50K NS, which at this point is a majority of our nations.

I'm not saying we've got an awesome strategy, or that we're going to win this war with flying colors. We [i]do[/i] have the power to make this war as painful as possible, however, and may be able to significantly impact our opponents over the longterm.

[neneko]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1301011246' post='2675272']
Okay if you say so mate. I get that for propaganda purposes you need to insult posts but seriously? I have made valid points and pretty much the only refuting argument I get is "you are dumb"... and ya'll state I am the one with lack of reading comprehension and am retarded and stupid crap like that.

"That damage would be from legion moving their 100k+ people out to hit mk."

You stated this. I responded to it. There would be no damage to MK if Legion moves their 100k people out of PM cuz they would be hit by CnG. So please don't say I am misreading !@#$ or that I am not responding to your points. I did and you are the one who looks dumber for this reply.
[/quote]
My post weren't a "if" post. Legion already did this. You could at least have tried to read my post again after I told you to.

For the record I don't think you're an awful poster because of propaganda reasons, I thought exactly the same during karma when we argued for the same side. I've never seen you use an ounce of logic or even common sense in any post you've made.

[Learz]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1301005724' post='2675160']
If NPO hadn’t received so much military assistance they’d be far worse off, and if the assistance hadn’t been so focused on us we’d be receiving significantly less aid. Like I said, it's a bunch of 'ifs' and has no bearing on actual circumstances.
[/quote]
This is true, but since GOONS has been knocked down, and every large nation is in PM, the fact is that NPO doesn't really need the reinforcements now. Most of us could peace out and the situation wouldn't have changed much. But GOONS requires daily transfusions of aid, and will require this every day until the end of the war.

[quote]The only scenario in which GOONS nations - those receiving aid - wouldn't be able to do anything with it is one in which the aid is not enough to sustain one's nation and to wage fight. Stuck? No, not at all, given that such a scenario is not likely in the least.[/quote]
I disagree, for reasons I've laid out (mainly, it's already happened to MK).

[quote]I wouldn't count on much control, in any ranges, the longer this goes. Nothing will happen? Unless Doomhouse and company (including the reserves) are neutralized that won't be the case. And really, what are the chances of that? Honestly?.[/quote]
Honestly, I think there's a pretty good chance of it happening. MK lower tier is getting rolled or sitting in PM. GOONS are sitting below 10K NS. You'd need allies to tip the balance in your favor, but it seems they are dancing around the treaty web trying not to draw anyone else in (more DoW's on your side will mean more DoW's on our side). It's a delicate balance, neither side seems to want to upset it too much.

[quote]It's not speculation though, it's how coalition warfare operates. As periphery fronts fold alliances move to the main hub(s).
As for the personal note, this front was won before it even started, yes. Nothing's changed in those regards. You disagree? Require reinforcements? Again, that's coalition warfare for you. I hope you're not surprised that alliances were going to inevitably shift over.[/quote]
No, no, I'm not surprised about that. I am surprised that this was actually the plan that y'all came up with.
"Hey, I gots an idea. Let's attack NPO."
"You sure? That won't go over well for PR."
"Psh, screw PR."
"But doesn't NPO have lots of allies and a strong military?"
"You're looking at this all wrong. See, we declare and crush their upper nations, then work our way down."
"But what if their uppers flee to PM and our upper nations sit around doing nothing while the rest of our forces get turned into rubble?"
"Oh, we'll just send our lowers a dozen or so billion in aid until the rest of our allies get free eventually."
"Then our allies will quickly get free and declare on them and we'll win the war?"
"Well, we'll hold our allies off for 2 months while they roll our lowers. It'll make them more scared."
"Sounds like a plan!"

I am sure alcohol was involved.

[quote]That's the thing though, your math and your points don't hold up. You presented an interpretation of numbers to fit your conclusions which, in light of fundamental aspects of both military and finances as well as common sense, are quite clearly being misinterpreted/misrepresented (which it is I'm not sure).

In the scenario you describe, nations with no wonders (almost entirely small nations to begin with), throughout prolonged war, will become increasingly smaller as time goes on (as they're whittled down), in which case available aid will go even further (for, for example, a 5k NS nation, the average Goon, compared to a 15k NS nation, the one you use in your example above).[/quote]
Exactly. GOONS will be pinned, at 5K (per your example). They will get aid, go up, declare, and get pushed back down while running out of money. They then repeat for several months. Meanwhile, our side works this cap down as low as it will go (where it settles I'm not sure, as the average GOON nation will be getting 1.5mil a day to fight, but it should be below 10K NS, probably closer to 6K?). But it will be very low, and GOONS will not be able to rise above that. Any higher and you will outspend the aid flow you're receiving.

[Ragashingo]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1301011731' post='2675289']
I needed it clarified, mostly because I've heard that you were unconditionally keeping TPF out to protect them at the expense of your other allies and what you've just said.
[/quote]

You're only hearing what you want to hear. Fortunately you've been corrected yet again, so now you finally drop this bewildering line of reasoning. Assuming you decide to listen this time... Yes it's doubtful, but I am an optimist.

[HHAYD]

[quote name='Lao Pan' timestamp='1301012054' post='2675300']
If the NPO treat their allies so poorly why doesn't Doomhouse take the NPO's allies out of the equation and offer all of them white peace.
[/quote]
This.

There are two reasons why we don't back down.

1. Ditching a long time ally in the face of an unprovoked war, bad idea.

2. Reps. No surprise that DH wants reps, just look at the recent surrender announcements.

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1301010410' post='2675255']
NPO has destroyed dozens of their own allies for offenses amounting to nothing by today's standards (like talking bad about them), and destroyed innocent bystanders for simply being there. Not to mention their enemies like MK and Umbrella. This is common knowledge. I don't understand why when I suggest it could very easily happen to you and your friends if NPO is allowed back into that kind of position, it makes me a lunatic.

Unless I realize I'm trying to reason with HeroofFINGTime.
[/quote]
Here's a question, did NPO do any of that after Karma? Maybe if you investigated a bit you would have realized that the 2011 NPO is not as same as the pre-2009 NPO and that NPO deserved a second chance to prove that it had changed. I do recall a NPO member mentioning that half of their membership weren't members yet until after Karma War ended. If NPO did decided to revert its old habits, yes you can roll it, but rolling it when it haven't repeated any of its old habits? Really?


No alliance stays static, all of them constantly change. Yes, that includes NPO. However, I believe you are stuck in the past.

Edited March 25, 2011 by HHAYD

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1301015221' post='2675370']
This is true, but since GOONS has been knocked down, and every large nation is in PM, the fact is that NPO doesn't really need the reinforcements now. Most of us could peace out and the situation wouldn't have changed much. But GOONS requires daily transfusions of aid, and will require this every day until the end of the war.
[/quote]

You missed or ignored my point I fear, which was simply that what could have happened is irrelevant in light of what has and is happening.

But I'll play ball and agree that your side's fate is the same either way really.

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1301015221' post='2675370']
I disagree, for reasons I've laid out (mainly, it's already happened to MK).
[/quote]

Differing interpretations I suppose. But I digress.

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1301015221' post='2675370']
Honestly, I think there's a pretty good chance of it happening. MK lower tier is getting rolled or sitting in PM. GOONS are sitting below 10K NS. You'd need allies to tip the balance in your favor, but it seems they are dancing around the treaty web trying not to draw anyone else in (more DoW's on your side will mean more DoW's on our side). It's a delicate balance, neither side seems to want to upset it too much.
[/quote]

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1301015221' post='2675370']
No, no, I'm not surprised about that. I am surprised that this was actually the plan that y'all came up with.
"Hey, I gots an idea. Let's attack NPO."
"You sure? That won't go over well for PR."
"Psh, screw PR."
"But doesn't NPO have lots of allies and a strong military?"
"You're looking at this all wrong. See, we declare and crush their upper nations, then work our way down."
"But what if their uppers flee to PM and our upper nations sit around doing nothing while the rest of our forces get turned into rubble?"
"Oh, we'll just send our lowers a dozen or so billion in aid until the rest of our allies get free eventually."
"Then our allies will quickly get free and declare on them and we'll win the war?"
"Well, we'll hold our allies off for 2 months while they roll our lowers. It'll make them more scared."
"Sounds like a plan!"

I am sure alcohol was involved.
[/quote]

I'm surprised that coalition warfare of such a nature is apparently so novel to you that you envisioned it as above.

And I'm in disbelief that you expect anyone to be entering on your side of any quantity or substance. Your side has a few allies left that would be seeing their first action, sure, but the great majority of your side's allies have reentry clauses that would bring their original enemies right back in should they choose to return to the battlefield. I do hope you haven't been holding out hope for relief of much worth.

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1301015221' post='2675370']
Exactly. GOONS will be pinned, at 5K (per your example). They will get aid, go up, declare, and get pushed back down while running out of money. They then repeat for several months. Meanwhile, our side works this cap down as low as it will go (where it settles I'm not sure, as the average GOON nation will be getting 1.5mil a day to fight, but it should be below 10K NS, probably closer to 6K?). But it will be very low, and GOONS will not be able to rise above that. Any higher and you will outspend the aid flow you're receiving.
[/quote]

As has been pointed out numerous times without much in the way of a cogent rebuttal, small nations that are only getting smaller will be easy to maintain and fund. It's basic nation dynamics. I'm not sure why you keep bringing up a desire or ability to rise above ranges as if GOONS, or most alliances for that matter, actively seek to build up on much of a scale during long-term nuclear war. It's not like we're worrying about coverage in any higher ranges.

Now that all said, I don't mean to go in circles here, but as long as you bring up such points I'll continue to refute them. I understand, given your circumstances - a prolonged, losing war - the need to remain relatively optimistic and put a positive spin on whatever you can, but at the same time it might be good to be a bit more realistic about things (which you may be away from the OWF, I don't know). But frankly, overestimating your position and maintaining our situation is or has the potential to be dire (even if only regarding certain elements) is simply not realistic.

[FlogYou]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1301021677' post='2675520']
This.

There are two reasons why we don't back down.

1. Ditching a long time ally in the face of an unprovoked war, bad idea.

2. [b]Reps. No surprise that DH wants reps, just look at the recent surrender announcements[/b].[/quote]
Yes from Carpe Diem because they re-entered the conflict, after being given white peace

And for NSO/ASU 180million which can be paid by 12 nations with 5 slots in 1 round, crippling indeed

[quote]Here's a question, did NPO do any of that after Karma? Maybe if you investigated a bit you would have realized that the 2011 NPO is not as same as the pre-2009 NPO and that NPO deserved a second chance to prove that it had changed. I do recall a NPO member mentioning that half of their membership weren't members yet until after Karma War ended. If NPO did decided to revert its old habits, yes you can roll it, but rolling it when it haven't repeated any of its old habits? Really?


No alliance stays static, all of them constantly change. Yes, that includes NPO. However, I believe you are stuck in the past.
[/quote]

For the record I am stuck on the outter rim, without you.

No 2009 alliance is the same now in 2011, in fact alliances pitted against each other in the last major war, are fighting side by side this war.

But the fact remains, your precious NPO are no saints even today, in fact some folks dislike 'em. Some folks didn't like them for 2 years, some 1 year. Some like their allies, and some don't. Some even don't like the people on their own general side, and then there's those who's door swings both way... I mean fight on both sides.

Are you following me?

Can we all agree to disagree that some people may like others and dislike some, in certain situations, maybe, but not necessarily all the time, unless it's convenient, or whatever.

Do you get where I'm going, should I repeat myself, or type slower?

Thank you for your time.

Edited March 25, 2011 by FlogYou

[HHAYD]

[quote name='FlogYou' timestamp='1301024456' post='2675595']
[b]For the record I am stuck on the outter rim, without you.

No 2009 alliance is the same now in 2011, in fact alliances pitted against each other in the last major war, are fighting side by side this war.

But the fact remains, your precious NPO are no saints even today, in fact some folks dislike 'em. Some folks didn't like them for 2 years, some 1 year. Some like their allies, and some don't. Some even don't like the people on their own general side, and then there's those who's door swings both way... I mean fight on both sides.[/b]

Are you following me?

Can we all agree to disagree that some people may like others and dislike some, in certain situations, maybe, but not necessarily all the time, unless it's convenient, or whatever.

Do you get where I'm going, should I repeat myself, or type slower?

Thank you for your time.
[/quote]
I can agree with that.

But I can not and never agree with the fact that alliances deserve to be rolled for their past after attempting to redeem themselves after receiving a Carthaginian peace. That's double punishment for the same crime, and I can not agree with that either. Do you understand what I am saying?

[FlogYou]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1301026790' post='2675679']
I can agree with that.

But I can not and never agree with the fact that alliances deserve to be rolled for their past after attempting to redeem themselves after receiving a Carthaginian peace. That's double punishment for the same crime, and I can not agree with that either. Do you understand what I am saying?
[/quote]

completely.

I just don't see NPO ever attempting to "redeem" themselves, as can be evidenced by the 2 year past due apology to FAN. I mean they could have tried to foster new relationships, it is possible consider, given where TOP/MK were 1 year ago (mind blowing isn't it). They could have done any number of things to redeem themselves, but without you providing me examples, I can't think of anything concrete. They basically pissed away any opportunity with number alliances trading petty shots back and forth alliances they're currently involved with, and some not yet.

This was a two way antagonism which went back and forth, pushed forward by Doomhouse before NPO could strike at them. Isn'tthat the general idea in warefare? I mean, when you feel strong and/or you see your opponent as weak, and there is nothing left to negotiate, you generally fight.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1301021677' post='2675520']
There are two reasons why we don't back down.

2. Reps. No surprise that DH wants reps, just look at the recent surrender announcements.[/quote]
So fight longer, take more damage, pay reps anyway.

It's almost [i][b]too[/b][/i] brilliant.

[mattski133]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1301021677' post='2675520']
Here's a question, did NPO do any of that after Karma? Maybe if you investigated a bit you would have realized that the 2011 NPO is not as same as the pre-2009 NPO and that NPO deserved a second chance to prove that it had changed. I do recall a NPO member mentioning that half of their membership weren't members yet until after Karma War ended. If NPO did decided to revert its old habits, yes you can roll it, but rolling it when it haven't repeated any of its old habits? Really?

No alliance stays static, all of them constantly change. Yes, that includes NPO. However, I believe you are stuck in the past.
[/quote]

They've been under terms for most of that time period, and in that time period, have done nothing to show they've changed. It may be that I'm stuck in the past, but I believe most of the people calling the shots in NPO are the same ones that called the plays pre-Karma.

I think if you ask MK or GOONS you'd find instances of hostility between us and NPO since Karma. I'm positive if they had the resources they would have resorted to violence rather than Sir Paul's words. Or, in more typical NPO fashion, resorted to the loyalty of allies like TPF and Invicta.

Anywho, like I've mentioned before in this very thread they didn't get rolled for repeating old habits, I think they got rolled for being the link between TPF and Legion, who both stayed out of the brutal NpO front for no apparent reason despite being directly tied in. Anyone who's been here as long as I have doesn't just mark that up as NPO changing their ways. If that were the case, they'd have Declared Neutrality and also, not aligned themselves to that side in the first place.

Sometimes referencing the past is a good way to predict the future. Not much of a cheek turner here.

[HHAYD]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1301069827' post='2676093']
Anywho, like I've mentioned before in this very thread they didn't get rolled for repeating old habits, [b]I think they got rolled for being the link between TPF and Legion, who both stayed out of the brutal NpO front for no apparent reason despite being directly tied in.[/b] Anyone who's been here as long as I have doesn't just mark that up as NPO changing their ways. [b]If that were the case, they'd have Declared Neutrality and also, not aligned themselves to that side in the first place.[/b]

Sometimes referencing the past is a good way to predict the future. Not much of a cheek turner here.
[/quote]
Damn if an alliance attempts to avoid entering the war, damn if they don't; and that doesn't make much sense. That's what I'm interpreting your post as.


Alliances shouldn't have to spam; "We're neutral". If an alliance doesn't enter the war at all and there's no hard evidences showing that it planned on joining the war, then its neutral regardless of treaty ties.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Learz' timestamp='1301015221' post='2675370']
:words:
[/quote]
Christ almighty, I can't believe you're still prattling on with your incorrect analysis. We've forced surrenders already, we still have reserves to call in if need-be, and we're barely getting attacked at all. The sooner you come to terms with the fact that you have lost this war, the easier it will be for you to come to terms with it.

[The Crimson King]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1301074144' post='2676122']. The sooner you come to terms with the fact that you have lost this war, the easier it will be for you to come to terms with it.
[/quote]


Say what?

[Judge X]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1301074144' post='2676122']
Christ almighty, I can't believe you're still prattling on with your incorrect analysis. We've forced surrenders already, we still have reserves to call in if need-be, and we're barely getting attacked at all. The sooner you come to terms with the fact that you have lost this war, the easier it will be for you to come to terms with it.
[/quote]
Hai, Sardonic. :waves:

Your still reading this too? Doomhouse is no longer entertaining. Many of us have moved on to more entertaining threads such as the FOK'ers and Green Goblins.

So, here's to the trigger and the F*finger. Deuces. TTYL.

[AugustusRumpus]

[quote name='The Crimson King' timestamp='1301074849' post='2676132']
Say what?
[/quote]
What needs clarifying here?