A Statement from Doomhouse

[the rebel]

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1300486832' post='2669441']
[b]There is also an additional economic penalty on top of the population happiness penalty if your nation is in peace mode for more than 5 days.[/b]

That's what that means. Having this discussion with you makes me question the quality of your alliance's entry exams and guides.
[/quote]

You can still make money in peacemode, not much but you can grow, those saying otherwise are foolish, i was in peacemode for 3-4weeks and was still making 2mill a day... FAN didnt bill-lock themselves staying in peacemode for nearly 2yrs.

[Ryuzaki]

[quote name='mhawk' timestamp='1300486529' post='2669433']
Considering there are around 160-200 nations in Doomhouse that are younger than the actual war (less than 45 days old), that statistic would seem to be pretty biased.
[/quote]

These figures are up to date, having just been taken now:

76.94% of NPO NS is in peacemode.
22.93% of Doomhouse NS is in peacemode.

Discounting the new GOONS nations that have joined since the war, the percentage of doomhouse NS in peacemode rises to 23.33%

Edited March 18, 2011 by Ryuzaki

[mhawk]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1300487214' post='2669447']
yes, and they have a tiny NS so it doesn't really affect us. the figure for the NPO is not, however, compromised in any way. the point is that the NPO has not come out to fight. some DH members have entered PM to restock or for 'other realm' reasons, but we are fighting, whereas the NPO is staying in PM.
[/quote]
How can an alliance lose 50% of its NS by not fighting? Did they just sell it?

[Banksy]

[quote name='mhawk' timestamp='1300487985' post='2669462']
How can an alliance lose 50% of its NS by not fighting? Did they just sell it?
[/quote]
you'll have to ask them why they are performing so poorly. as far as i can tell, they lost soft NS (infra and land) which comprised the majority of their NS pre-war. this can easily and quickly be rebought as they have (on the whole) adequate warchests due to the gap between karma and this war.

three rounds of war will hardly cripple them, especially considering that after the second round they will probably outmatch us in the middle tier with the drop in NS.

[Jens of the desert]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1300469285' post='2669159']
[b]We have the "right" to demand whatever we damn well please[/b]. It falls upon NPO to acquiesce or refuse, weighing the consequences and circumstances as best they can.

What irritates me is that the Pacifican government, whom once daftly navigated an extraordinarily complex geopolitical system in order to impose its tyranny, is now saddled with advisers and allies who cannot see beyond their own face. When the most prominent voices of your coalition are Alterego and HeroofTime, it is time to reconsider your roster. When your best strategic advice comes from The Phoenix Federation, it's time to put together a new team.
[/quote]
I've never thought of myself as a conservative CN player, but when I read that, I realise that I'm starting to think on a different plane from you, DH and probably still NPO et al.

Just because you have the [s]right[/s] might, doesn't mean you should always exercise it. Surely this isn't just because you're sore that your "side"'s alliances have lost a lot of NS and NPO hasn't lost enough? Surely the true joy in CN is waiting for your rival to genuinely trip up somehow and pay them back for the last time you made a mistake and took a beating (at least that's how I see it anyway)?

War in my opinion is at its most enjoyable when it has a point [b]and[/b] you get to destroy an alliance you really don't agree with/dislike and without both of those, the routine is a little hollow.

Great for all of you if you can get enjoyment out of this, but from the experiences I've had on this world so far, this war has been one of the least enjoyable for me.

[Gobb]

[quote name='mhawk' timestamp='1300487985' post='2669462']
How can an alliance lose 50% of its NS by not fighting? Did they just sell it?
[/quote]
By getting their upper tier caught during the initial rush to peace mode. Half of that 50% happened during the first week of this war, which incidentally is the only time in this war that a decent portion of their upper tier was fighting.

[mhawk]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1300488449' post='2669474']
you'll have to ask them why they are performing so poorly. as far as i can tell, they lost soft NS (infra and land) which comprised the majority of their NS pre-war. this can easily and quickly be rebought as they have (on the whole) adequate warchests due to the gap between karma and this war.

three rounds of war will hardly cripple them, especially considering that after the second round they will probably outmatch us in the middle tier with the drop in NS.
[/quote]
The point stands that an alliance can't lose that amount of NS without either losing a large number of nations if they didn't fight. NPO has fought, you guys just want more damage to be done than you've currently or are likely in the future to accomplish.

[Banksy]

[quote name='mhawk' timestamp='1300488814' post='2669488']
The point stands that an alliance can't lose that amount of NS without either losing a large number of nations if they didn't fight. NPO has fought, you guys just want more damage to be done than you've currently or are likely in the future to accomplish.
[/quote]
no, we want a fight. we accept that the long term damage we can do to them will be minimal due to their warchests (as i said earlier, their nations in PM have sizeable warchests and should, for the most part, be able to rebuy to their current infra levels without much difficulty). if we wanted to cause long term damage we would be demanding aid restrictions or tech reps.

we just want a war.

[Jens of the desert]

[quote name='mhawk' timestamp='1300488814' post='2669488']
The point stands that an alliance can't lose that amount of NS without [b]either [/b]losing a large number of nations if they didn't fight. NPO has fought, you guys just want more damage to be done than you've currently or are likely in the future to accomplish.
[/quote]
Where's the or?

Also Banksy hit the nail on the head: they still were infra heavy, and I'm sure you know how fast an infra heavy nation with little tech falls, right? Well apply that to one of the most populated alliances in the game and you have your answer. It isn't rocket science...

[Thrash]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1300487182' post='2669445']
Jaiar: you are missing this sentence: "There is also an additional economic penalty on top of the population happiness penalty if your nation is in peace mode for more than 5 days." Peace mode gets pretty painful pretty fast, although you won't get bill locked with decent wonders – but you will have net collections of close to zero.
[/quote]

Camp swapping on a 3 day back collect nets you more than 0, granted it ain't much, but it's not like bill lock is going to happen.

[mhawk]

[quote name='Jens of the desert' timestamp='1300489049' post='2669497']
Where's the or?

Also Banksy hit the nail on the head: they still were infra heavy, and I'm sure you know how fast an infra heavy nation with little tech falls, right? Well apply that to one of the most populated alliances in the game and you have your answer. It isn't rocket science...
[/quote]
Exactly, it isn't rocket science. Stating NPO hasn't fought is incorrect and mere wordplay.

[Feuersturm]

[quote name='Ryuzaki' timestamp='1300487443' post='2669452']
These figures are up to date, having just been taken now:

76.94% of NPO NS is in peacemode.
22.93% of Doomhouse NS is in peacemode.

Discounting the new GOONS nations that have joined since the war, the percentage of doomhouse NS in peacemode rises to 23.33%
[/quote]

Surprise surprise, considering we've been at war for a month and a half on the receiving end of a surprise attack.

Was Doomhouse subject to a blind-side attack as well to derive these figures? Didn't think so.

[Vol Navy]

The NS argument is a strawman as has been pointed out. Because such a massive amount of NS on DH's side is made up from tech, their top nations lose NS much more slowly than those they are fighting. I had to fight nations with my level of infra and almost double my tech. Their nukes were dropping about 550 land, 550 infra, 180 tech a day. Air attacks 80 infra each. GA's 80 infra. It's honestly ridiculous that they were even in range of me and that the tech bonus to NS isn't much greater since it makes war from WRC powered nations so much more damaging. After one round you are out of their range. Their NS is still quite high due to the tech and the fact that they retained about double your infra since your attacks are only doing half the damage theirs are.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1300493138' post='2669588']
The NS argument is a strawman as has been pointed out. Because such a massive amount of NS on DH's side is made up from tech, their top nations lose NS much more slowly than those they are fighting. I had to fight nations with my level of infra and almost double my tech. Their nukes were dropping about 550 land, 550 infra, 180 tech a day. Air attacks 80 infra each. GA's 80 infra. It's honestly ridiculous that they were even in range of me and that the tech bonus to NS isn't much greater since it makes war from WRC powered nations so much more damaging. After one round you are out of their range. Their NS is still quite high due to the tech and the fact that they retained about double your infra since your attacks are only doing half the damage theirs are.
[/quote]
eh? i don't think you've proven what you were trying to prove here. yeah, we've got good nations and we lose our ns slower. the fact that the npo loses ns quicker than us only proves our point that 50% of their ns isn't actually that much long term because of their warchests.

it doesn't matter that the majority of the npo's ns is in tech or in infra. it's still in pm and we still want to fight it.

[Kilkenny]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1300479029' post='2669297']
Point being, there's no rule that says anyone has to play by NPO's rules.
[/quote]


Then why are you requiring that NPO play by your rules??

[SpoiL]

Doomhouse sucks.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Kilkenny' timestamp='1300493697' post='2669597']
Then why are you requiring that NPO play by your rules??
[/quote]
if they want peace, they have to meet our demands (or negotiate). this is how war works.

if they don't want peace, then they don't have to do anything.

[Rocky Horror]

[quote name='SpoiL' timestamp='1300493886' post='2669603']
Doomhouse sucks.
[/quote]SAY THAT TO MY FACE !@#$%

[Antonio Salovega VI]

[quote name='KingEsus' timestamp='1300475907' post='2669229']
Are you seriously attacking him for being in peace mode? Two months on, seriously? You know he's following orders. Branimir has been fighting for 5 years, his casualty figures prove he's not averse to a bit of rough'n'tumble. Such a horrible personal attack from someone so ... mediocre.

I love it, you beat them down for no reason, drag a load of the rest of us in and then complain when they play it their own way, dragging up tactics from 2008 to goad them out of peace mode.
[/quote]

Am I calling him out for being in peace mode while his comrades are fighting the war? You got it! Nothing gets past you does it? But seriously, that is your argument? An 892K casualty figure? In five ... I say again ... five years? That would not even give him braggin' rights in the GPA for heaven's sake. GPA, the neutral menace, has fought one defensive war and they did not want that. How many wars has your illustrious hero fought in? Suffice it to say a few more than one. So how does he stack up when compared to those in the GPA?

[list][color="#FF0000"][url=http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=14042]branimir of Ujedinjena Slavija[/url]
Alliance Seniority: 5/11/2006 5:41:01 PM (1,772 Days)
891,436 Casualties[/color]

[color="#008000"][url=http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=104662]Cabernet of Valley of Vines[/url]
Alliance Seniority: 2/11/2007 8:53:10 PM (1,496 Days)
1,008,448 Casualties

[url=http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=77214]Shankus Maximus of Pogoland[/url]
Alliance Seniority: 12/9/2006 4:09:24 PM (1,560 Days)
1,961,924 Casualties

[url=http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=66838]Thomasj_tx of TJ Land[/url]
Alliance Seniority: 11/24/2006 3:08:44 PM (1,575 Days)
2,643,945 Casualties

[url=http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=4558]Caribbean Ghost I of Bertollopia[/url]
Alliance Seniority: 3/16/2006 5:49:18 PM (1,828 Days)
3,254,769 Casualties

[url=http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=926]Duke Phillips of the Land of Lawson[/url]
Alliance Seniority: 1/30/2006 (1,873 Days)
3,368,956 Casualties[/color][/list]

The mighty warrior, Branimir of Ujedinjena Slavija, would likely have a higher casualty figure if he had joined the The Neutral Menace. So what has he been doing in all those wars he has been braggin' about been killin' in? Most likely the same thing he is doing right now. Hiding out in peace mode and only fighting when forced to do so. Just as in the past, your hero, the self-proclaimed fighter, the noble Branimir, has abandoned the field of battle. His comrades are fighting enemies which out number and out gun them or are in bill lock. He has an entire armamentorium filled to the brim with dusty armaments. His large standing army serves only to spit shine his munitions. He reputedly also has a massive war chest. Where is Branimir the magificent, the terror of cybernations? What is he doing while his commrades spill their blood and treasure? Like the rest of the NPO elite, he is sitting comfortably in peace mode with a DEFCON of five, drinking chardonnay and smoking imported havanahs. In fighting a war his nation is no better than Ivan Modavi's. For that matter, he may as well be in the GPA, as much help as he is to his comrades, the real soldiers of the NPO.

[SpoiL]

[quote name='Rocky Horror' timestamp='1300494293' post='2669606']
SAY THAT TO MY FACE !@#$%
[/quote]

Doomhouse sucks.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Lord Gobb' timestamp='1300478636' post='2669286']
Yeah, but I've never said Sir Paul represents all of NPO with his tabloid tribune. NPO protecting a pretender to our throne is obviously an infringement upon our sovereignty, though.
[/quote]

i thought MK was all about the jokes though? it is obvious that Sir Paul was joking around.

[quote name='janax' timestamp='1300478692' post='2669288']
Oh no. Not a year to rebuild. How long do you think it will take many of the alliances that have been fighting for NPO or NpO to rebuild? Think that 3.1 million missing NS of STA's is just going to mysteriously re-appear? How about the millions RoK lost?

War damages things. It's part of the nature of war.
[/quote]

hey, i am not saying it is a bad thing. i am just countering the fact that Ardus and others are stating that NPO won't be devastated by a month long war with all their nations out of PM. i know war damages take time to rebuild. but at the very least MK and others need to own up to the fact that these terms are meant to obliterate NPO to ensure that the next war a year or so down the road will be even easier for DH.

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1300479029' post='2669297']
CB was a term twisted by NPO to justify their wars against people who didn't deserve them. CB's often involved trivial matters that NPO was able to blow out of proportion as an excuse to run another alliance out of here. CB's eventually came to be some kind of spying accusation or violation of EZI, almost exclusively.

A Casus Belli is simply a justification of war. In this case, that NPO was as big a threat on the flanks of the war that they could easily join through Legion (who also remained out under much more conspicuous terms) as they were if they were actively involved in it. Doomhouse could enter the war against NpO to assist Pandora's Box, and it would leave it's flanks open to Legion and NPO, TPF, Invicta, etc.

Any sound military commander with an understanding of the history between these factions would consider that a valid CB and take the initiative to secure victory.

Point being, there's no rule that says anyone has to play by NPO's rules.
[/quote]

you mean something as trivial as NPO not joining a war? or NPO not trying to kiss DH's ass but instead simply ignoring them? yeah, NPO did twist trivial !@#$ into a CB but so is DH.

point being, there's no rule that says anyone has to play by DH's rules.

[LittleRena]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1300494565' post='2669614']
i thought MK was all about the jokes though? it is obvious that Sir Paul was joking around.
[/quote]

They are, just not when someone is joking about them.

[Jaiar]

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1300486832' post='2669441']

[b]There is also an additional economic penalty on top of the population happiness penalty if your nation is in peace mode for more than 5 days.[/b]

That's what that means. Having this discussion with you makes me question the quality of your alliance's entry exams and guides.
[/quote][quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1300487182' post='2669445']
Jaiar: you are missing this sentence: "There is also an additional economic penalty on top of the population happiness penalty if your nation is in peace mode for more than 5 days." Peace mode gets pretty painful pretty fast, although you won't get bill locked with decent wonders – but you will have net collections of close to zero.

[/quote]
I read that sentence as the economic penalty being that by not leaving peace mode immediately after you are able to that that is the penalty. Meaning it's best to collect after 5 days and get out of peace mode rather than stay in peace mode for longer than the 5 days you are locked into peace mode. Nothing more. It doesn't say specifically that incomes are halved.

Anyway, the point is we will be fine. We are at peace even with wars going on around us. Like I said flak, you can knock down my nation and the other small nations we have and we can collect and with a single $3mil aid slot 1000 days from today we can pay our bills. If DH didn't want to fight for so long then you shouldn't have messed with us.

[Jacapo Saladin]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1300432933' post='2668899']
[color="#0000FF"]You think I'd prefer the NSO sitting out because it is a pain? No. We had friends on both sides of this conflict. Polar was attacked. STA was fighting. But we had to sit out, as it was the coalition strategy to save its more valuable cards until later. NPO finally got attacked for no reason, as far as I think (DH thinks differently of course), and we decided to come in. If we didn't, NSO members would have left in droves to fight elsewhere. We think this war is stupid, yes, but it was one that was bound to happen. Losing side or not, it is the side we support and the side we have our friends on. Still, we made a choice to enter. [b]We could have activated the Hydra treaty to get in on the winning side, or we could have claimed conflicting treaties and sat out. [/b]But we choice to get in on it because we felt it the right thing to do.



[/color]
[/quote]

That would have involved you helping your most loyal, dedicated, and almost longest ally. Yeah that wouldn't have happened.

[HHAYD]

Originally I wanted to jump into the meat grinder. Now I find it more amusing to sit in peace mode and watch the OWF become filled with cries and whines from Doomhouse and their buddies.

Keep on crying and whining, your tears are delicious.

Edited March 19, 2011 by HHAYD