An Imperial Announcement from the New Pacific Order

[janax]

[quote name='Horatio Longworth' timestamp='1299997475' post='2662552']
I like to think that we are actually winning this war and therefore not being compelled.
[/quote]

I admit it, I giggled a little.

[Jrenster]

[quote name='maskofblue' timestamp='1299997091' post='2662537']
Yes, and behind closed doors the leadership of NPO said that they needed to pretend to change so the world would leave them alone long enough for bloody retribution.

At no point in history has NPO expressed any sympathy, remorse, or regret for what happened with FAN. In the beginning it was a calculated move for their own power. In the months and years that followed, they continued to do everything in their power to strangle the life out of them. It wasn't until the majority of the world united against them and through overwhelming force of arms hauled them off of FAN that they even stopped. Now, in the middle of a bad situation, one they need political capital and peace desperately, they issue an apology? How can any of you sit there with a straight face and pretend this is anything other than a contrived political maneuver made for reasons more related to self-preservation than sincere contrition?

Let's be real here, the NPO advanced in the game by ruthlessly maneuvering themselves into positions of power using anyone and anything at their disposal to do so. Each time they were forced to make a concession, the moment they regained the upper hand, they either took it back ten times over or rewrote history to claim it never happened. Look no further than their last apology, which they retracted as soon as they had the force behind them to do so. This policy has served them well, historically, until Karma. However, the net result is that they are never sorry for anything they do, only the consequences of it. Their only sincerity lies in their drive to conquest and to destroy their enemies.

The only thing more vacuous than an NPO apology is one who accepts it as genuine.
[/quote]

You seem to know us so well. Better than us, even. Tell me, what sort of ruthless maneuvering did we have to do to get Doomhouse to attack us for no reason (or whatever imagined reasons that they have)? Tell me. What sort of evidence do you have for our supposed insincerity? None. All you have is examples from well over two years ago and people such as yourself seem to be stuck in that time frame. You people have [i]no[/i] evidence for our insincerity other than pride and cynicism.

Now is this apology late? Sure. I can concede to that. But is it not deserved? What would happen if we didn't issue this apology? People such as yourself would critique our lack of apology and treat Pacifica to be the same as always. Is it also at a bad time? Sure, why it may seem that, but who are you to make sheer coincidence into factual evidence. The fact of the matter is that we are not apologizing because we want to get out of war with FAN. Keep your suspicions as suspicions until you find some real proof for why you think this is disingenuous, or some sort of evil plot by the evil NPO.

[Jrenster]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1299994120' post='2662464']
Because this is so hilariously out of character for NPO that its completely unbelievable that there'd be a scrap on sincerity in it.
[/quote]

No seriously, what is our character? Who have we been insincere to for the last two years that gives you credence for your accusations of insincerity?

[TrotskysRevenge]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1299998763' post='2662592']
I know and I care.

More on topic, the people who caused the majority of the problems left the alliance soon after the war went south. The remaining, more moderate, government of old GOONS should have been allowed to surrender. I still somewhat hold it against the NPO government of those days for not doing more to reign in the NpO government of those days, and maybe get them to back off the disbandment bender. They left GOONS to rot, something which still does not sit well with me.
[/quote]

Thanks to Red for editng:

Perhaps you don't remember but at that time Polar was led by Sponge; we were having our own problems with him then. There is nothing we could have done to change his mind about any thing; we certianly could not "reign" him in.

Edited March 13, 2011 by TrotskysRevenge

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1299997445' post='2662549']
In this world of hypocrisy and betrayal, there's one truth that's never let me down: when in doubt, if the NPO government says it, it's a goddamn lie.

The audacity of this announcement should comfort us all.
[/quote]

This is so blatantly stupid and full of holes. I think the only truth here is that you're prejudiced.

[Earogema]

Honestly, this thread is exactly why NPO didn't try to use "diplomacy" to "learn their lesson."

Most of you just won't care. You just won't admit it.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='Earogema' timestamp='1299999429' post='2662612']
Honestly, this thread is exactly why NPO didn't try to use "diplomacy" to "learn their lesson."

Most of you just won't care. You just won't admit it.
[/quote]
Nah, the world has its annual happy hour pass which they dont want to give up.

[Matthew Conrad]

I... I don't have words to express how utterly hilarious this is.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Earogema' timestamp='1299999429' post='2662612']
Honestly, this thread is exactly why NPO didn't try to use "diplomacy" to "learn their lesson."

Most of you just won't care. You just won't admit it.
[/quote]
Timing is everything.

[Wabooz]

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1299992038' post='2662413']
Then why not wait until he can post it? It's not like this has to be done [i]today[/i]. It took you two years....what's going to hurt waiting a bit longer so you can do it properly.
[/quote]
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but Mpol said that he generally ignores what the NPO Emperor says and pays more attention to the IO's as they're the true voice of the alliance. Perhaps thats why an IO is posting this.

[pd73bassman]

Bad timing as always NPO

I hope FAN just tells you to shove it and keeps handing out the beating you so deserve.

[Gandroff]

[quote name='maskofblue' timestamp='1299997091' post='2662537']
At no point in history has NPO expressed any sympathy, remorse, or regret for what happened with FAN. In the beginning it was a calculated move for their own power. In the months and years that followed, they continued to do everything in their power to strangle the life out of them.
[/quote]

You say that like you weren't around for all of it and supporting it.

Edited March 13, 2011 by Gandroff

[maskofblue]

[quote name='Gandroff' timestamp='1300000226' post='2662625']
You say that like you weren't around for all of it.
[/quote]
Certainly I was. I was one step below an IO for much of it. All the question about how I know, the answer is I had an advanced level of access. Even had I not been IAC at the time, enough former IOs are more than willing to talk about how the NPO was run and provide documentation.

I was, however, never in a position to change policy.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1299998892' post='2662597']
You seem to know us so well. Better than us, even. Tell me, what sort of ruthless maneuvering did we have to do to get Doomhouse to attack us for no reason (or whatever imagined reasons that they have)? Tell me. What sort of evidence do you have for our supposed insincerity? None. All you have is examples from well over two years ago and people such as yourself seem to be stuck in that time frame. You people have [i]no[/i] evidence for our insincerity other than pride and cynicism.

Now is this apology late? Sure. I can concede to that. But is it not deserved? What would happen if we didn't issue this apology? People such as yourself would critique our lack of apology and treat Pacifica to be the same as always. Is it also at a bad time? Sure, why it may seem that, but who are you to make sheer coincidence into factual evidence. The fact of the matter is that we are not apologizing because we want to get out of war with FAN. Keep your suspicions as suspicions until you find some real proof for why you think this is disingenuous, or some sort of evil plot by the evil NPO.
[/quote]
Wasn't maskofblue a long time NPO member? According to the wiki she was and I recall hearing that name associated with NPO. I don't think it's an accident that so many NPO members speak badly of it after leaving.

That being said it's hard to judge the sincerity of this, it's always hard to judge the sincerity of an apology. On the one hand it's not usual for NPO to swallow their pride of anything and this appears to be voluntary. On the other hand it's in the middle of a war where they want peace and stand to gain from it. It's really up to FAN to decide how they'll take this.

[Vol Navy]

I swear some of the stuff in this thread just cracks me up, especially from parties not from alliances named FAN.

For 2 years now this side of the web has been randomly rolled for basically nothing, but all the alliances doing it still decry stuff that happened 3 years or more ago and act like they are the clean handed saints of the game.

Hell, even Mpol admitted that FAN were major dicks back then and just rolled random people for the lulzyness of it, but that's all forgotten. They shouldn't have been kept in peace mode for so long by Pacifica but there is really only so many times NPO should have to pay and keep paying for that.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='maskofblue' timestamp='1299997091' post='2662537']
Yes, and behind closed doors the leadership of NPO said that they needed to pretend to change so the world would leave them alone long enough for bloody retribution.

At no point in history has NPO expressed any sympathy, remorse, or regret for what happened with FAN. In the beginning it was a calculated move for their own power. In the months and years that followed, they continued to do everything in their power to strangle the life out of them. It wasn't until the majority of the world united against them and through overwhelming force of arms hauled them off of FAN that they even stopped. Now, in the middle of a bad situation, one they need political capital and peace desperately, they issue an apology? How can any of you sit there with a straight face and pretend this is anything other than a contrived political maneuver made for reasons more related to self-preservation than sincere contrition?

Let's be real here, the NPO advanced in the game by ruthlessly maneuvering themselves into positions of power using anyone and anything at their disposal to do so. Each time they were forced to make a concession, the moment they regained the upper hand, they either took it back ten times over or rewrote history to claim it never happened. Look no further than their last apology, which they retracted as soon as they had the force behind them to do so. This policy has served them well, historically, until Karma. However, the net result is that they are never sorry for anything they do, only the consequences of it. Their only sincerity lies in their drive to conquest and to destroy their enemies.

The only thing more vacuous than an NPO apology is one who accepts it as genuine.
[/quote]


Spoken like a true participant.


The simple fact of the matter is that FAN was made an example of, and it worked so well that no one dared cross Pacifica again, and took the [i]greatest delight[/i] in doing NPO's dirty work for them for a long time. Does that mean that now NPO has no ability to look back ad say, [i]hm, you know what, that was a dick move, and maybe [u]we[/u] thought that our getting an ass-whipping and then letting the FAN thing lay would be satisfactory, it seems it wasn't and we should re-examine the issue.[/i] No, it doesn't.

[pd73bassman]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1300000603' post='2662634']
I swear some of the stuff in this thread just cracks me up, especially from parties not from alliances named FAN.

For 2 years now this side of the web has been randomly rolled for basically nothing, but all the alliances doing it still decry stuff that happened 3 years or more ago and act like they are the clean handed saints of the game.

Hell, even Mpol admitted that FAN were major dicks back then and just rolled random people for the lulzyness of it, but that's all forgotten. They shouldn't have been kept in peace mode for so long by Pacifica but there is really only so many times NPO should have to pay and keep paying for that.
[/quote]


Well this is the first time FAN is making them pay

[mhawk]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1299991491' post='2662396']
And therein lies the problem, they should have done it [I]after[/I] the war. Anyone can apologize with a gun at their head.
[/quote]
As you drag your mindless war of aggression out longer, we shall see if it holds true for you in the long run.

[maskofblue]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1300000639' post='2662635']
Spoken like a true participant.


The simple fact of the matter is that FAN was made an example of, and it worked so well that no one dared cross Pacifica again, and took the [i]greatest delight[/i] in doing NPO's dirty work for them for a long time. Does that mean that now NPO has no ability to look back ad say, [i]hm, you know what, that was a dick move, and maybe [u]we[/u] thought that our getting an ass-whipping and then letting the FAN thing lay would be satisfactory, it seems it wasn't and we should re-examine the issue.[/i] No, it doesn't.
[/quote]
I don't deny my part in it. I did a lot of things back then and many of them are things I am not proud of. Personally, I have little to nothing to do with what happened with FAN being a leader of the Media department, I may have created a graphic or a propaganda post at some point though I cannot recall any specific examples of such. Nothing I say or do now will change any of it. What I did have, however, was a good deal of exposure to information.

Regardless, none of this is particularly relevant to the facts of the matter here. You and others are welcome to keep trying to refocus the topic on myself and others who were involved at one level or another and maybe there is some blame to go around. However, none of that changes how the NPO operates. When their back is against the wall they deal in what they feel is most advantageous to them, when at all possible, that being to issue words at problem to try and better their position. Words are abundant and free, something an alliance on the losing end of a war can afford to give away in bulk. It is also something they can take back later should they feel the need to, all they have to say is they were under duress when they made it.

A bid for political capital and sympathy is the logical thing to do in their position, it is what they have always done. It is why they can't be trusted now to be sincere and nothing of any personal involvement I had with them in the past changes how they work.

Edited March 13, 2011 by maskofblue

[hawk11]

[quote name='maskofblue' timestamp='1300001145' post='2662650']
You and others are welcome to keep trying to refocus the topic on myself and others who were involved at one level or another and maybe there is some blame to go around. However, none of that changes how the NPO operates.[/quote]

Well yeah, nothing in this thread changes how the NPO operates, but time and experience does. How long have you been removed from our alliance again? I mean, sure you were a long standing member back during the days where these things happened, but you were removed quite some time ago. As far as I'm concerned, you're not really a great judge of our actions when you weren't even around under the current emperor.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1300000639' post='2662635']
The simple fact of the matter is that FAN was made an example of, and it worked so well that no one dared cross Pacifica again, and took the [i]greatest delight[/i] in doing NPO's dirty work for them for a long time. Does that mean that now NPO has no ability to look back ad say, [i]hm, you know what, that was a dick move, and maybe [u]we[/u] thought that our getting an ass-whipping and then letting the FAN thing lay would be satisfactory, it seems it wasn't and we should re-examine the issue.[/i] No, it doesn't.
[/quote]

Well that's the issue, NPO spent so long stacking up dick move after dick move, that there is little credence given to the idea that they'd have a chance of heart.

NPO never made any significant outreach to anyone post war (this is covered in detail in the "will your opinion of NPO/NpO change" thread) to change the public perception that NPO was still the NPO that pissed enough people off to kick off Karma. I've even already admitted its not fair, since its rather hard to prove a motive behind an action, but it is the situation they are in.

NPO's lack of out reach post war meant the image that remained was that NPO hadn't changed at all, all the 'changes' came at gunpoint, so the idea that NPO would go right back to 'business as usual' from pre-karma if they could is prevalent. This is reinforced by ex-NPO members who have left since Karma saying that's exactly the mindset they have.

Given that kind of public image, whats easier to believe?

[quote name='hawk_11' timestamp='1300001404' post='2662652']
Well yeah, nothing in this thread changes how the NPO operates, but time and experience does. How long have you been removed from our alliance again? I mean, sure you were a long standing member back during the days where these things happened, but you were removed quite some time ago. As far as I'm concerned, you're not really a great judge of our actions when you weren't even around under the current emperor.
[/quote]

The consistent and irrational hate aimed at everybody who's ever left NPO is also a great indicator of Pacifician Character to the rest of us.

Edited March 13, 2011 by TypoNinja

[maskofblue]

[quote name='hawk_11' timestamp='1300001404' post='2662652']
Well yeah, nothing in this thread changes how the NPO operates, but time and experience does. How long have you been removed from our alliance again? I mean, sure you were a long standing member back during the days where these things happened, but you were removed quite some time ago. As far as I'm concerned, you're not really a great judge of our actions when you weren't even around under the current emperor.
[/quote]
Two points of historical correction. Firstly, I was never removed, I quit after a demonstration of how the NPO is willing to treat its own members. Secondly, I did in fact serve under Emperor Cortath for a time before I quit.

More to the point, however, Cortath was an active IO when all of these discussions took place and I don't recall any dissent from him on the same planning floated by Moo and Dilber that has been mentioned here. He had ample opportunity to express a desire for actual change as opposed to mere political repositioning by the most expedient means available in order to take another stab at it. He did not.

[hawk11]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1300001575' post='2662654']
The consistent and irrational hate aimed at everybody who's ever left NPO is also a great indicator of Pacifician Character to the rest of us.
[/quote]

Typo, once again I'm going to have to call you out for your uncharacteristic posting, like the first time I quoted you in this thread which went ignored. There wasn't a drop of hatred in that post. I would know, I wrote it. What happened to the Typo I knew?

[quote name='maskofblue' timestamp='1300001640' post='2662658']
Two points of historical correction. Firstly, I was never removed, I quit after a demonstration of how the NPO is willing to treat its own members. Secondly, I did in fact serve under Emperor Cortath for a time before I quit.

More to the point, however, Cortath was an active IO when all of these discussions took place and I don't recall any dissent from him on the same planning floated by Moo and Dilber that has been mentioned here. He had ample opportunity to express a desire for actual change as opposed to mere political repositioning by the most expedient means available in order to take another stab at it. He did not.
[/quote]

I'm going to plug the radio show which has been linked numerous times: Cortath did try to reach out to FAN. We did try for actual change.

[Mary the Fantabulous]

I'm sorry I was unavaliable earlier when this announcement was first issued (OOC: Had to attend and endure the absurdly long wedding and reception of one of my family members). Our apologies are long overdue and we are well aware of it. Those of you that doubt our intentions will continue to do so; nothing will change your mind. You are invested in viewing us as evil and unchanging. At the end of the day, the only opinion that matters is that of FAN, to whom this apology is addressed.

[SpoiL]

[quote name='maskofblue' timestamp='1299997091' post='2662537']
Let's be real here, the NPO advanced in the game by ruthlessly maneuvering themselves into positions of power using anyone and anything at their disposal to do so. Each time they were forced to make a concession, the moment they regained the upper hand, they either took it back ten times over or rewrote history to claim it never happened. Look no further than their last apology, which they retracted as soon as they had the force behind them to do so. This policy has served them well, historically, until Karma. However, the net result is that they are never sorry for anything they do, only the consequences of it. Their only sincerity lies in their drive to conquest and to destroy their enemies.

The only thing more vacuous than an NPO apology is one who accepts it as genuine.
[/quote]

What is wrong with any of that? They shouldn't exist because they play to win? The only thing NPO needed to ever have changed is the [s]game[/s]world-killing tactics and terms. If you expect otherwise than perhaps [url="http://pbskids.org/teletubbies/teletubbyland.html"]you have entered[/url] the wrong URL.