And Then There Was Silence...

[kriekfreak]

Holy Canoli, what is wrong with CD? I feel sorry for their allies right now.

[Poyplemonkeys]

[quote name='Mayzie' timestamp='1297174474' post='2625657']
No there isn't at all, where has anyone said that?

If you read my post, and I know you did (), I think that explains why I think those people were in peacemode and unable to come out. It wasn't for a third wave and if it was, then for a start they might've told us that and secondly, they might as well have declared two days ago when they could come out as the only people who got anymore than two days action were nations 30kish & under.

What advantage do you gain when an alliance are pounding on your allies by declaring war but not actually hitting them because your entire middle & upper tier are in peacemode? Unless it's a tactic employed by everyone on that front, which I can assure you it wasn't.
[/quote]

Well there were several posts intimating that they were informed this would be a long war and if they were told it was going to end this quickly they would have entered on another front instead. Regardless, the nations could come out of peace mode within 2 days of them declaring war if I recall rightly? Given that they were unsure of where they would end up it makes sense to have both situations covered right? Not only that but regardless of whether you are the 'second wave' or not, it is always advantageous to have nations ready to declare after the first lot of anarchies against any counters or targets that are proving particularly difficult.

To claim it's not tactically astute to have a reserve force when you're expecting a long term war is borderline retarded Mayz. Unlike all of the 'lol get ur name taken off the peace then' posts which are literally retarded.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='darkfox' timestamp='1297179907' post='2625727']
So you are saying WAPA would leave you in the war had you not signed? Did you guys not do any protests? Hell did you guys even bother talking to the other alliances on your side involved in this surrender? [/quote]

Technically the word 'surrender' never appears in the OP...

Objectively speaking, this peace treaty doesn't happen unless MHA enters the battlefield. If Sparta posts this war in their portion of the CN Wiki as a "Victory", someone should correct it. If CD is a bit butthurt, it is because they probably felt like they were on the verge of making Sparta surrender. I understand why they would be pissed, but this is not the venue to display it.

[quote]AZTEC, NATO and TFD entered to get Sparta off NV's back. Sparta backed off. I don't see why CD is so angry. AZTEC and Co accomplished their goal and you guys can bow out gracefully with a couple scratches and are ready to help any ally who needs it. Yet here you are whining and complaining about not being able to fight longer. Or are you guys just mad that you weren't included more?[/quote]

See above. Also technically speaking the treaty ending hostilities prevents the anti-Spartan forces from say, going to help Legion...though that would be epically lulzy....

[Vespassianus]

Haha CD complaints about "evil allies signed peace without us" is so funny. Don't you enter to the war with full high and mid tier in peace mode? You made totally no sense on the battlefield because you are just cowards and now you try to look like big warmongers who got abandoned by allies?

Maybe try to fight next time if you enter into a war Or just feel free to break your terms, let's see what will happen...

[darkfox]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1297185199' post='2625805']
Technically the word 'surrender' never appears in the OP...
[/quote]
Oh my bad. Lets say peace then.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1297185199' post='2625805']
Objectively speaking, this peace treaty doesn't happen unless MHA enters the battlefield. If Sparta posts this war in their portion of the CN Wiki as a "Victory", someone should correct it. If CD is a bit butthurt, it is because they probably felt like they were on the verge of making Sparta surrender. I understand why they would be pissed, but this is not the venue to display it.
[/quote]

This time around it was us asking for peace so yes, it is a surrender. At least that's how I see it personally.

As for CD, if they were fighting the war, they would be fighting MHA not Sparta. They had no part in the Sparta battle as they declared in defense of WAPA who was attacked by MHA. Which means that, on the extreme event of them making someone surrender, it couldn't be Sparta.

Edited February 8, 2011 by Lusitan

[Bionic redhead]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1297185605' post='2625815']
This time around it was us asking for peace so yes, it is a surrender. At least that's how I see it personally.

As for CD, if they were fighting the war, they would be fighting MHA not Sparta. They had no part in the Sparta battle as they declared in defense of WAPA who was attacked by MHA. Which means that, on the extreme event of them making someone surrender, it couldn't be Sparta.
[/quote]

Actually, our mere presence in CN and massive NS was scaring them

[The Last Imperial]

[quote name='Poyplemonkeys' timestamp='1297185049' post='2625803']
Well there were several posts intimating that they were informed this would be a long war and if they were told it was going to end this quickly they would have entered on another front instead. Regardless, the nations could come out of peace mode within 2 days of them declaring war if I recall rightly? Given that they were unsure of where they would end up it makes sense to have both situations covered right? Not only that but regardless of whether you are the 'second wave' or not, it is always advantageous to have nations ready to declare after the first lot of anarchies against any counters or targets that are proving particularly difficult.

To claim it's not tactically astute to have a reserve force when you're expecting a long term war is borderline retarded Mayz. Unlike all of the 'lol get ur name taken off the peace then' posts which are literally retarded.
[/quote]
That is why our nations were in Peace mode, but I guess people don't know what going in on waves looks like

[quote name='Vespassianus' timestamp='1297185212' post='2625807']
Haha CD complaints about "evil allies signed peace without us" is so funny. Don't you enter to the war with full high and mid tier in peace mode? You made totally no sense on the battlefield because you are just cowards and now you try to look like big warmongers who got abandoned by allies?

Maybe try to fight next time if you enter into a war Or just feel free to break your terms, let's see what will happen...
[/quote]
if you didnt noticed most of our nations came out of peace mode during the second wave of our attack to send aid and attack, but like I said guess you dont know what battle tactics are

Edited February 8, 2011 by The Last Imperial

[Vespassianus]

[quote name='The Last Imperial' timestamp='1297186921' post='2625832']
if you didnt noticed most of our nations came out of peace mode during the second wave of our attack to send aid and attack, but like I said guess you dont know what battle tactics are
[/quote]

Mate i have more casualities then your top 10 totally, who knows maybe i fought a bit more then you.

Well you have only 29 nations in anarchy and still 10 nations in peace mode (including 3 from your top 5) so i guess most of your alliance didn't really fight...

[youwish959]

Heh, there is a lot of basing upon Carpe Diem in here.

There are many people throughout these pages claiming, "Carpe Diem should have come in with more of their upper tier!" Well, yes that would have been a sound strategy had Carpe Diem not been under the impression it was going to be a long, drawn out war; an impression gathered from those already involved in the war. The fact of the matter here is that AZTEC told Carpe Diem that it would be a long war, one worth committing their resources too.

There are many people throughout these pages claiming, "Carpe Diem shouldn have come to war earlier!" Carpe Diem declared war upon Mostly Harmless Alliance a mere one day after their ally in We Are Perth Army was hit.

There are many people throughout these pages claiming, "Carpe Diem shouldn't have signed the surrender terms then!" It is obvious they did not have much other choice. It was either sign the terms that they did not like, or fight an enemy seven times their size.

There are many people throughout these pages claiming, "Carpe Diem shouldn have contributed to the negotiations then!" Well, that would be a good point, had they been informed of the negotiations. The fact of the matter is that they were not involved in peace negotiations, other than asking for a signature when everyone else was going to peace out.

[pezstar]

Congratulations to our friends in NV in reaching a peace agreement.

[pigsticker]

they could have done something sneaky like declare on someone else before the agreement was published.
that would have technically evaded the problem.

[The Last Imperial]

[quote name='Vespassianus' timestamp='1297187402' post='2625838']
Mate i have more casualities then your top 10 totally, who knows maybe i fought a bit more then you.

Well you have only 29 nations in anarchy and still 10 nations in peace mode (including 3 from your top 5) so i guess most of your alliance didn't really fight...
[/quote]
my Nation is also old then your nations, and if I do recall right, and I am pretty sure I am right, the Casualties counter was not always around, and knowing that I was in FAN up until the end of FAN-Wut war, and knowing how many wars we were in back then, I doubt that you are even close to as many wars that I have been in, Casualties dose not mean anything to a nation that know that he was in the top 100, was one of the first to use nukes, and who was ZI'ed and came back and never rerolled my nation, so dont talk about being better then me, when we both know your not

Edited February 8, 2011 by The Last Imperial

[the damned]

[quote name='PrinceArutha' timestamp='1297129562' post='2624892']
No U! It was fun blowing up stuff and most of the people I warred were pretty cool....






Good to see peace I guess.... Now back to boredom. I am disappointed that my requirement of a member from FARK had to drink and then write a beer review on my favorite beer "Piraat" http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/48/156 I was willing to try a beer of choice from a member of an opposing alliance and write a review for them as well..... and I am still willing to as I love to try new beer. So, if anyone has any suggestions and would be willing to swap reviews then let me know.
[/quote]

If you would be willing, may i recommend a 200 word review of Old Rasputin Russian Imperial Stout by the North Coast Brewing company?

Also, o/ Peace

All of my targets were quiet but respectful.

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='King Louis the II' timestamp='1297184587' post='2625797']
I think if CD is not happy with the peace arrangements, she could ask to have her name removed from the agreement and continue the war.
[/quote]

Stop it with these retarded Strawmen. CD has no interesting in fighting MHA after WAPA is out of the battlefield.

[quote name='Vespassianus' timestamp='1297185212' post='2625807']
Haha CD complaints about "evil allies signed peace without us" is so funny. Don't you enter to the war with full high and mid tier in peace mode? You made totally no sense on the battlefield because you are just cowards and now you try to look like big warmongers who got abandoned by allies?

Maybe try to fight next time if you enter into a war Or just feel free to break your terms, let's see what will happen...
[/quote]

Stay off the oxy bro, it makes you say crazy stuff



Now (un)hopefully, another of CD's allies gets hit so they can enter the war on their/our behalf

[King Charge]

Who cares when they entered, or how many nations were in peace mode?

The logical point of argument here is CD should have gotten their priorities straight and done a little research to figure out which front best suited their aspirations. Honestly, I joined Colossus less than a month ago yet apparently I somehow knew more about the peace agreements than the entirety of CD's government. It wasn't because anyone sought me out. It wasn't because anyone told me straight up. It's because I spent two minutes looking up the names of the right people to ask about it myself.

Like I said. I am honestly really sorry that you guys couldn't help out your other allies. However, your government decided to jump in without consulting all parties involved. The resources and information was there for you to make a proper judgment about entering the front, and you simply chose not to seek it. The objective of this front was for AZTEC to protect NV from Sparta. This information was also helpful in predicting when this front could end. You could have assessed the risks vs the reward of joining. Like I stated previously, AZTEC's ultimate reward was to protect NV and we accomplished it. Your assessment, from the sounds of things, would have been different:

REWARD: Defend WAPA
RISKS: Terms/Reps (AKA No re-entry clauses, money, tech, etc.)

I've beat this point to death, but no one seems to grasp it still. It was your own decisions that got you here. Quit blaming everyone else. If you didn't want to be here, you should have never put yourself in the position. You can sit here and be salty about it or you can learn from the experience. Make sure to look more into things before getting involved in a war, assess your risks vs rewards, and learn about your allies and their tendencies.

[youwish959]

[quote name='King Charge' timestamp='1297191246' post='2625892']
Who cares when they entered, or how many nations were in peace mode?

The logical point of argument here is CD should have gotten their priorities straight and done a little research to figure out which front best suited their aspirations. Honestly, I joined Colossus less than a month ago yet apparently I somehow knew more about the peace agreements than the entirety of CD's government. It wasn't because anyone sought me out. It wasn't because anyone told me straight up. It's because I spent two minutes looking up the names of the right people to ask about it myself.

Like I said. I am honestly really sorry that you guys couldn't help out your other allies. However, your government decided to jump in without consulting all parties involved. The resources and information was there for you to make a proper judgment about entering the front, and you simply chose not to seek it. The objective of this front was for AZTEC to protect NV from Sparta. This information was also helpful in predicting when this front could end. You could have assessed the risks vs the reward of joining. Like I stated previously, AZTEC's ultimate reward was to protect NV and we accomplished it. Your assessment, from the sounds of things, would have been different:

REWARD: Defend WAPA
RISKS: Terms/Reps (AKA No re-entry clauses, money, tech, etc.)

I've beat this point to death, but no one seems to grasp it still. It was your own decisions that got you here. Quit blaming everyone else. If you didn't want to be here, you should have never put yourself in the position. You can sit here and be salty about it or you can learn from the experience. Make sure to look more into things before getting involved in a war, assess your risks vs rewards, and learn about your allies and their tendencies.
[/quote]
Carpe Diem was given the impression that this would be a longer, more drawn out war. A war worth spending their resources on. That is the issue. They were told that it was an ongoing war, were never given any impression that peace was even in the works, and then they were never consulted for peace.

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1297191819' post='2625903']
Carpe Diem was given the impression that this would be a longer, more drawn out war. A war worth spending their resources on. That is the issue. They were told that it was an ongoing war, were never given any impression that peace was even in the works, and then they were never consulted for peace.
[/quote]
That isn't [i]our[/i] fault. If they have a problem, they need to talk to AZTEC.

[Auctor]

[quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1297192197' post='2625911']
That isn't [i]our[/i] fault. If they have a problem, they need to talk to AZTEC.
[/quote]


Yes, because everyone was blaming you here.

[King Charge]

[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1297191819' post='2625903']
Carpe Diem was given the impression that this would be a longer, more drawn out war. A war worth spending their resources on. That is the issue. They were told that it was an ongoing war, were never given any impression that peace was even in the works, and then they were never consulted for peace.
[/quote]

Once again, I feel for them in these regards. At some point though, they need to start looking at what they could have done to educate themselves that these impressions they had were false. Only consulting with WAPA about what was going on wasn't a smart move. This front really had no intentions of jumping into the NPO-Doomhouse fray, but rather in protecting NV from Sparta. Clearly our goals for the conflict and their goals for the conflict differed. This is also something they could have gone to school on before jumping in. How can they possibly blame us for ending the conflict once we achieved what we sought to do? Out of respect for CD, I don't want to say they just jumped in all Willy Nilly, but only consulting one of the eight allied alliances involved was a mistake on their part. It is not solely our responsibility to go to them with details of peace talks. I'm simply pointing out that they too were at least some what at fault for not taking a more aggressive approach to figuring out all the details of this front.

EDIT: Auctor, you keep cracking me up with all these little comments you've sprinkled throughout the thread

Edited February 8, 2011 by King Charge

[youwish959]

[quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1297192197' post='2625911']
That isn't [i]our[/i] fault. If they have a problem, they need to talk to AZTEC.
[/quote]
I hate to agree with you, but I know it isn't.

[Sulmar]

[quote name='King Charge' timestamp='1297192432' post='2625915']
Once again, I feel for them in these regards. At some point though, they need to start looking at what they could have done to educate themselves that these impressions they had were false. Only consulting with WAPA about what was going on wasn't a smart move. This front really had no intentions of jumping into the NPO-Doomhouse fray, but rather in protecting NV from Sparta. Clearly our goals for the conflict and their goals for the conflict differed. This is also something they could have gone to school on before jumping in. How can they possibly blame us for ending the conflict once we achieved what we sought to do? Out of respect for CD, I don't want to say they just jumped in all Willy Nilly, but only consulting one of the eight allied alliances involved was a mistake on their part. It is not solely our responsibility to go to them with details of peace talks. I'm simply pointing out that they too were at least some what at fault for not taking a more aggressive approach to figuring out all the details of this front.
[/quote]
I'm pretty sure they were in the AZTEC coalition irc channel, so they did consult basically everyone. Also, I'm pretty sure if AZTEC wanted peace it was their responsibility to tell CD about it.

[youwish959]

[quote name='King Charge' timestamp='1297192432' post='2625915']
Once again, I feel for them in these regards. At some point though, they need to start looking at what they could have done to educate themselves that these impressions they had were false. Only consulting with WAPA about what was going on wasn't a smart move. This front really had no intentions of jumping into the NPO-Doomhouse fray, but rather in protecting NV from Sparta. Clearly our goals for the conflict and their goals for the conflict differed. This is also something they could have gone to school on before jumping in. How can they possibly blame us for ending the conflict once we achieved what we sought to do? Out of respect for CD, I don't want to say they just jumped in all Willy Nilly, but only consulting one of the eight allied alliances involved was a mistake on their part. It is not solely our responsibility to go to them with details of peace talks. I'm simply pointing out that they too were at least some what at fault for not taking a more aggressive approach to figuring out all the details of this front.

EDIT: Auctor, you keep cracking me up with all these little comments you've sprinkled throughout the thread
[/quote]
Who said they only consulted with WAPA? No one said such things. The fact is CD consulted with the entire coalition, and was actually involved in the coalition channel.

No one ever stated that the AZTEC front should jump into the NPO-DH front. That is a separate war. No one is actually here blaming you for peacing out so early, but rather for [i]not[/i] being completely up front with Carpe Diem about the time line of this war and [i]not[/i] consulting them when peace negotiations begain.

The fact of the matter is when you start negotiating such a broad, wide ranging peace, it IS your responsibility to reach out to everyone with details of the talks.

[Vespassianus]

[quote name='The Last Imperial' timestamp='1297188321' post='2625850']
my Nation is also old then your nations, and if I do recall right, and I am pretty sure I am right, the Casualties counter was not always around, and knowing that I was in FAN up until the end of FAN-Wut war, and knowing how many wars we were in back then, I doubt that you are even close to as many wars that I have been in, Casualties dose not mean anything to a nation that know that he was in the top 100, was one of the first to use nukes, and who was ZI'ed and came back and never rerolled my nation, so dont talk about being better then me, when we both know your not
[/quote]

Who cares about your nation history? And why do you brag about your nation when it sucks? Why don't you just reply to my arguments?

[Lusitan]

[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1297192909' post='2625925']
Who said they only consulted with WAPA? No one said such things. The fact is CD consulted with the entire coalition, and was actually involved in the coalition channel.

No one ever stated that the AZTEC front should jump into the NPO-DH front. That is a separate war. No one is actually here blaming you for peacing out so early, but rather for [i]not[/i] being completely up front with Carpe Diem about the time line of this war and [i]not[/i] consulting them when peace negotiations begain.

The fact of the matter is when you start negotiating such a broad, wide ranging peace, it IS your responsibility to reach out to everyone with details of the talks.
[/quote]

Your argument lacks coherence. CD's active involvement in the coalition channel is not compatible with them being kept out of the loop because there were 3 days before the start and the end of the peace talks where discussion happened in the.. surprise.. coalition channel.

I am not exactly sure either how do you know how active they were in the coalition channel, but that's another story.