And Then There Was Silence...

[Sulmar]

[quote name='Vespassianus' timestamp='1297193005' post='2625927']
Who cares about your nation history? And why do you brag about your nation when it sucks? Why don't you just reply to my arguments?
[/quote]
Vespassianus your only argument is that you have more casualties, which is not actually an argument at all. One does not need casualties to be good at war in CN.

[Vespassianus]

[quote name='Sulmar' timestamp='1297193543' post='2625936']
Vespassianus your only argument is that you have more casualties, which is not actually an argument at all. One does not need casualties to be good at war in CN.
[/quote]

Read my post again and find this part: [quote]Well you have only 29 nations in anarchy and still 10 nations in peace mode (including 3 from your top 5) so i guess most of your alliance didn't really fight...[/quote]

Thanks.

None answered that argument, but yeah personal attacks are easier...

[Wabooz]

It's a shame that VE & company pulled this in the first place, but I'm glad it's over for you guys.
O/ Aztec, TNG, TFD and the other 20 alliances involved

[King Charge]

[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1297192909' post='2625925']
Who said they only consulted with WAPA? No one said such things. The fact is CD consulted with the entire coalition, and was actually involved in the coalition channel.

No one ever stated that the AZTEC front should jump into the NPO-DH front. That is a separate war. No one is actually here blaming you for peacing out so early, but rather for [i]not[/i] being completely up front with Carpe Diem about the time line of this war and [i]not[/i] consulting them when peace negotiations begain.

The fact of the matter is when you start negotiating such a broad, wide ranging peace, it IS your responsibility to reach out to everyone with details of the talks.
[/quote]

I honestly don't want to start making assumptions (or more than I already have anyways) because I'm not government and I wasn't involved in any of the peace talks. It is because of that fact that I am not sure of the extent to which CD was made aware of negotiations or to the extent they were involved. I can't even vouch for who CD consulted when they jumped into the war, and who's responsibility it was to give them information. I can, however, vouch for the fact that it wasn't incredible difficult to find the right people in which to notify the rest of us about the negotiations. By the way, this was days before the peace agreement was finally agreed upon. I wasn't aware of the fact that AZTEC needed to hold CD's hand throughout the entire process and I still don't believe that is or was the case. Regardless, I just can't fathom that little old me someone how knew the war was coming to a close days before it actually happened. Little old me knew that as soon as FARK entered the conflict the war would soon come to an end. Little old me, with the little experience I had, somehow did a better job of predicting the end of the front and gathering information about the peace agreement than CD's government. The only thing I can actually vouch for is myself. How did I know all this and CD didn't? That's my only concern with their "Woe is me" left in the dark attitude.

All I'm saying is at some point CD needs to look at the efforts they put forth in finding out about peace, and critique themselves a bit before finger pointing.

[Cairna]

[quote name='Vespassianus' timestamp='1297193768' post='2625939']
None answered that argument, but yeah personal attacks are easier...
[/quote]
Because we had originally anticipated involvement within the NPO front, our upper and middle tiers were in peace mode, as that was the chosen strategy for that coalition's front.

They entered peace mode after filling up aid slots, and hours later we realized we would be called in against MHA.

We did two update strikes, the first with the lower tier, the second we decided would occur when our aid slots expired so we could fill up the lower tier and any allied requests.

The intent with the second wave was to provide support for WAPA and coalition nations, but we weren't going to go all in against a numerically superior foe in one night. The intent was to be annoying as possible for MHA milcom, bringing out groups each night.

It's understandable that you do not see this because it's not the usual, and it's not something we had time to effectively use. It's a lot easier for them to draw up target lists and counters when they all happen at once, we had every intent of making their mil-affairs time consuming.

It doesn't matter at the end of the day.

[quote]99% of argument around military prowess are pointless. The rest were about Walford, which were necessary[/quote]

Also, if we were not present in the channel ( I did not go often I know, as very little of relevance was discussed in my first few times there) it still would have been nice to have been told that peace negotiations were taking place. We were not. Maybe we're too used to the quality of Terra-Cotta communications.

In my discussions with WAPA's TheChief, it was revealed to me that they also had no say in the peace discussions.

I don't expect I'll be arguing the point much further. Our displeasure has been noted. Can't say we had any other goal within this thread.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1297185605' post='2625815']
This time around it was us asking for peace so yes, it is a surrender. At least that's how I see it personally.[/quote]

Any time you can cause a sanctioned alliance to pull off an unsanctioned ally, that's a victory.

But yeah, with MHA in the mix that pretty much tips the scales and no shame in the result.

[quote]As for CD, if they were fighting the war, they would be fighting MHA not Sparta. They had no part in the Sparta battle as they declared in defense of WAPA who was attacked by MHA. Which means that, on the extreme event of them making someone surrender, it couldn't be Sparta.[/quote]

Given the level of complaining, I didn't bother to check the war stats, I just assumed.

[Manetheren]

Congrats AZTEC on your magnificent victory over Sparta.

Non-Sparta people on the "other side" good job too. You don't suck at fighting (or life).

[FearUnited]

[quote name='Poyplemonkeys' timestamp='1297172792' post='2625641']
So I suggest you quit running your mouth about peace mode when you claim to have some knowledge of the war system
[/quote]
Ignorance is what you talk about.. Show Lusitan respect my friend. A great man he is and very knowledgeable. TFD lasted against MHA, CD had terrible planning for this front. I respect Lust very highly, as u should know peace is and should always be an option. Think about all of those other alliances that declared peace. CD is the mainly the only one complaining. If you didn't want peace CD, then why did u sign? All of the other alliances were thinking about their alliances' nations protect and what would be the odds of winning. Always consider peace an option. A really military general knows that and especially a wise man like Lusitan

O/TFD

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='FearUnited' timestamp='1297196705' post='2625981']
Ignorance is what you talk about.. Show Lusitan respect my friend. A great man he is and very knowledgeable. TFD lasted against MHA, CD had terrible planning for this front. I respect Lust very highly, as u should know peace is and should always be an option. Think about all of those other alliances that declared peace. CD is the mainly the only one complaining. If you didn't want peace CD, then why did u sign? All of the other alliances were thinking about their alliances' nations protect and what would be the odds of winning. Always consider peace an option. A really military general knows that and especially a wise man like Lusitan

O/TFD
[/quote]

How many times do we have to clear it up... These are not the arguments CD is making.

CD is displeased with being given the choice either to peace out and tie their hands, or to face a pointless war with an alliance 8 times its size after its original ally peaced out. After not being consulted at all for peace negotiations. It's a !@#$ deal, they know it, those trying to understand their argument knows it, and I think they've made their point clear.

[TIEIXIAIS]

Congratulations to all parties who achieved peace.

[Bower3aj]

You know what tires me out? Hearing about nothing in this thread except for how mad CD is. Let's clear something up here. NV gets hit by Sparta. AZTEC, TFD, NATO attack sparta in NVs defense. The Lodge is Attacked by DF and AO. A few days later TFD, NATO(?) WAPA (I honestly don't know who all is involved in this part, I just know WAPA is the important one) gets hit by MHA. CD then enters.

What I hope CD realizes is that they were not a big part of this war. They were on the fringe of this battle fighting the fringe of the other side. If nobody came to you with every piece of information that is why. You were a fringe fighter. It's your job to keep yourself informed. AZTEC has one member that is tied to you. You are of no consequence to the rest of us. And as I've now learned from my Gov, you're lucky the war even lasted as long as it did. I'm sure if you would have asked ANYONE about what was happening you would have been told. I've played that role before as a member of AZTEC. You keep yourself informed. Politics move fast on Bob. And when we were getting an alliance to surrender I had to keep myself active and aware to keep up with the peace negotiations. If you're not prepared for that then that is your own fault.

Again, you're a fringe fighter, and a small one. This thread is about the peace between a great many people. You are just a tiny fraction of this peace. either hail the peace or leave a grumbling comment about the peace. But don't sit here and drag out the same "We're CD and we're mad!" rhetoric for over a dozen pages. You protected my ally and I thank you for that. But you were in no way big enough in this war to warrant such relentless whining about the peace.

Know your role in the future and then you'll be able to keep informed cause you'll know that it's up to the fringe members to stay on the ball. The big boys up front have peace to settle with the big boys across the battlefield. They cannot hold your hand.

[Auctor]

[quote name='Bower3aj' timestamp='1297198351' post='2626009']
You know what tires me out? Hearing about nothing in this thread except for how mad CD is. Let's clear something up here. NV gets hit by Sparta. AZTEC, TFD, NATO attack sparta in NVs defense. The Lodge is Attacked by DF and AO. A few days later TFD, NATO(?) WAPA (I honestly don't know who all is involved in this part, I just know WAPA is the important one) gets hit by MHA. CD then enters.

What I hope CD realizes is that they were not a big part of this war. They were on the fringe of this battle fighting the fringe of the other side. If nobody came to you with every piece of information that is why. You were a fringe fighter. It's your job to keep yourself informed. AZTEC has one member that is tied to you. You are of no consequence to the rest of us. And as I've now learned from my Gov, you're lucky the war even lasted as long as it did. I'm sure if you would have asked ANYONE about what was happening you would have been told. I've played that role before as a member of AZTEC. You keep yourself informed. Politics move fast on Bob. And when we were getting an alliance to surrender I had to keep myself active and aware to keep up with the peace negotiations. If you're not prepared for that then that is your own fault.

Again, you're a fringe fighter, and a small one. This thread is about the peace between a great many people. You are just a tiny fraction of this peace. either hail the peace or leave a grumbling comment about the peace. But don't sit here and drag out the same "We're CD and we're mad!" rhetoric for over a dozen pages. You protected my ally and I thank you for that. But you were in no way big enough in this war to warrant such relentless whining about the peace.

Know your role in the future and then you'll be able to keep informed cause you'll know that it's up to the fringe members to stay on the ball. The big boys up front have peace to settle with the big boys across the battlefield. They cannot hold your hand.
[/quote]

you're a dick and that's the kind of attitude that I wouldn't mind getting my ass rolled to watch you have rearranged.

[freedomfight3r]

Well that was rather quick.
If only AB's allies came to their aid... :/

[Daikos]

[quote name='Cairna' timestamp='1297139698' post='2625195']

Normally when people call it babbling it's because they don't understand it or know it's a valid point. I suspect this isn't any different.

Though, understandably someone from the Grand Lodge of Weemasons might not quite pick up on these sort of political overtures.
[/quote]

Perhaps that is normally how it goes. But in this case I'm calling it as I see it. And your ability to align me with an entirely different alliance than I am in adds a great deal to my point.


[quote name='Cairna' timestamp='1297145399' post='2625382']
Because while our allies are being gunned down we're left to accept these terms. Terms we were not in any way shape or form involved in the formation of.

We came here expecting a fight. We are disappointed. We feel we have been disrespected.

[/quote]

If these terms are truly so upsetting to CD than go ahead and pull your names off the peace agreement. Or you could just continue to complain for another 20 pages or so.

[quote name='Earl Dumarest' timestamp='1297161341' post='2625547']

This was not a surrender. This was a lucky escape. I'm looking at you, Sparta.
[/quote]

Pray tell, how is it a lucky escape when they were the ones being surrendered to?

[quote name='The Last Imperial' timestamp='1297181533' post='2625751']

Edit: We were never asked into peace talks so get your info right
[/quote]

So somebody forged your names on this treaty? Ye gods. I understand your rage then. You'd best go ahead and announce that you're alliance had no part in this peace agreement and that you want to return to a state of war immediately.

[scytale]

CD was going to hit the mid to upper range from MHA that hit WAPA who hit Sparta that hit NV that.... that... umm... lost train of thought... *choo choo* Oh yeah! My point. Ah shoot. Start the war back up. I would have been on the list for CD to hit. One week of war is not enough!

[Farore]

[quote name='freedomfight3r' timestamp='1297199647' post='2626025']
Well that was rather quick.
If only AB's allies came to their aid... :/
[/quote]

Mind explaining to me what you mean by that last comment?

[Dr.G]

[quote name='scytale' timestamp='1297199772' post='2626029']
One week of war is not enough!

[/quote]

If this was Facebook, I'd like this comment. However, in the world of Planet Bob, we gotta look at the larger picture. Maybe in one years time, We'll hit Sparta and MHA again, and have another round of fun. Until then, re-buy all that lost infra/tech/land.

[Sulmar]

Seriously, people really need to stop saying "herp derp, pull your names off the peace agreement CD if you don't like it." Firstly, everyone knows that would be idiotic, and second, that is not what CD is mad about.

[Burnsey]

[quote name='Sulmar' timestamp='1297192573' post='2625917']
I'm pretty sure they were in the AZTEC coalition irc channel, so they did consult basically everyone. Also, I'm pretty sure if AZTEC wanted peace it was their responsibility to tell CD about it.
[/quote]
If CD were in the channel (which they were) they would have known about peace. At least the people with access. It is a shame however to see CD upset. You guys are great people.

[janax]

[quote name='Farore' timestamp='1297199821' post='2626030']
Mind explaining to me what you mean by that last comment?
[/quote]

We like Duckies.

[Mayzie]

[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1297191819' post='2625903']
Carpe Diem was given the impression that this would be a longer, more drawn out war. A war worth spending their resources on. That is the issue. They were told that it was an ongoing war, were never given any impression that peace was even in the works, and then they were never consulted for peace.
[/quote]

I doubt anyone knew how long this would last, how long until we would even consider peace or most importantly how long until accepting peace was a reasonable thing to do. NV entered this war to defend STA from wF, they were then hit by Sparta and that's when !@#$ spread. The wF front is all but cleared up, they're barely in a position to be fighting and now Sparta are off NV's back.

In this situation peace was the logical solution, that CD got drawn in so close to the end is unfortunate but not something any of us could foresee.

[Sulmar]

[quote name='Burnsey' timestamp='1297200620' post='2626038']
If CD were in the channel (which they were) they would have known about peace. At least the people with access. It is a shame however to see CD upset. You guys are great people.
[/quote]
Well I can't really speak as to why CD didn't know about the peace terms, but I feel like that is really a side issue in their whole argument. To me it seems like CD felt that the AZTEC alliances made it seem like their front would be of a longer duration when in fact it has ended after only a short time, leaving CD's other allies who are involved within a seemingly long term war where CD could have been better able to help.

[freedomfight3r]

[quote name='Farore' timestamp='1297199821' post='2626030']
Mind explaining to me what you mean by that last comment?
[/quote]
[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=64473&hl=Shiny+Ducky+Pact"]Just a little MDoAP from back in the day.[/url]

[quote name='janax' timestamp='1297200653' post='2626039']
We like Duckies.
[/quote]

I love Duckies.

[Ian Dox]

Far be it for me to interject my opinion, but I feel that I must. A snipe fest between allies, gov or non-gov, is best behind closed doors, ie IRC or your own forums.

All this does is feed the peanut gallery and gives ammo to those who's only goal is to stir the pot. This just leads to hurt feelings and doesn't generally do either of you any good.

I'm just saying...

[Farore]

[quote name='freedomfight3r' timestamp='1297201474' post='2626051']
[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=64473&hl=Shiny+Ducky+Pact"]Just a little MDoAP from back in the day.[/url]



I love Duckies.
[/quote]

So do we