Announcement from Umbrella and the Mushroom Kingdom

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='Hadrian' timestamp='1296839419' post='2619357']
I haven't said it's not a CB?

I'm commenting on how bloody awful it is and trying to defend it is pointless.
[/quote]
Good for you.

My point to D34th is that they had a CB.

[Vespassianus]

[quote name='gantanX' timestamp='1296838444' post='2619345']
i dont think whinning has anything to do with balls, but i agree with you almost the whole part, it is just 3 Alliances fighting the good fight, but the sad part is i think Molon Labe will be on their own on this one, heh hope i am wrong
[/quote]

Yeah ML would deserve a more fair fight, but heh CN isn't about even and fair fights...

[Moe Szyslak]

[quote name='Seerow' timestamp='1296839935' post='2619364']
Okay, how has this gone on for 19 pages with people still not getting this?


Nobody has said that ML is bad for not posting a DoW when defending allies. We have never said it was necessary, and have never said that them not doing so is cowardice.

Had anyone bothered to ask MK, we would have acknowledged that we were at war with TPF, and whoever else we have a war or two declared on. There simply was no need to clutter the OWF with announcements for each one, particularly when we're only dedicating one or two nations to that front. I mean, could you hear the trolling? "LOL MK declared war on TPF but only declared 2 wars, they're goin downhill man". We are capable of assisting allies without any formal declaration.

What they did do, to cause us to accuse them of cowardice, is when confronted about it, they said they were not at war with us, but were merely attacking rogues. They defined our own members as rogues, because our members were defending allies without an official DoW. When they were informed, no, this was sanctioned by Government, they grew stubborn and continued to insist that no matter what MK government said, the nations they were attacking were merely rogues. THIS was the act of cowardice, a classification of terminology designed specifically to let them attack our nations without becoming embroiled in the larger war.

Well, we certainly were not about to let the good name of nations doing as they were told be besmirched by an act like this, so the only solution available was to recognize hostilities between us and ML officially, so none could deny that this was in fact a war, just like every other conflict MK has been engaged in since initiating hostilities with the NPO has been.
[/quote]

Since when did name-calling or setting your own definitions become an act of cowardice? Nations all around the world utilize different languages. [ooc]should the U.S. bomb France just because their word for pencil is crayon?[/ooc] I see your point though in noting that you didn't want anybody to make great notice of the fact that MK has gone downhill. Seriously though, if you were telling Molon Labe that you were officially at war with their allies, then their declarations on nations that weren't attacking directly as a response to such sanctioned alliance actions against their allies was justified. And if they insist on calling you a rogue alliance, that's really not an act of cowardice, it's just an act of name-calling.

[King Charge]

[quote name='Natan' timestamp='1296788254' post='2618567']
[center][img]http://f.cl.ly/items/2g083U111J3T0o0f2B2L/mkumbdual.jpg[/img][/center]

Umbrella and Mushroom Kingdom have been providing support for GOONS in their war against The Phoenix Federation. We acknowledge that this has been done without a formal declaration of war, but it is a very small scale engagement which did not warrant cluttering Alliance Politics more than it already has been. It should go without saying that when a bloc-mate is struck, we consider ourselves at war with the entity attacking them.

Molon Labe nations have been attacking nations within Umbrella and Mushroom Kingdom who were engaging The Phoenix Federation. Over the last day, they have branched out into attacking non-engaged nations as well. This, by any standard, is an attack on Umbrella and the Mushroom Kingdom and by itself warrants a full retaliation.

Molon Labe's government has both participated in these attacks and made clear in negotiations that they do not consider these to be rogue attacks any more than we consider our own members who are defending GOONS to be rogues. As such, we are currently facing alliance sanctioned declarations against us as part of Molon Labe fulfilling it's treaty obligations to TPF. This is known as an alliance war, and to avoid any further confusion on this front, we are officially recognizing the state of war that currently exists between ourselves and Molon Labe.
[/quote]

Has anyone actually read this? How is this 19 pages? It's pretty cut and dry. I don't particularly like Umbrella or MK, but they clearly have justification in declaring an official state of war between them and ML. That being said...Good luck ML

EDIT: Is this honestly about whether or not MK or Umbrella THINKS that ML are cowards? Who cares?

Edited February 4, 2011 by King Charge

[Shayne Rivai]

[quote name='ThatFALGuy' timestamp='1296826965' post='2619205']
And you have been told wrong. You feel it is important enough to post this in public, I feel it is important enough to correct you on it, in public. DR didn't say anything, it was ML doing the talking.[/quote]

Oh, really? Thanks, bro. I was unaware that you were a member of Duckroll and not only that, but with government access. Would you mind telling me when the next food drive starts? I wasn't at the last DR meeting and I really want to get rid of all this [i]BOLOGNA[/i] that you are dishing out -- I don't need it.

(Apologies for the double notification. We had some communications issues during the transmission.)

[Seerow]

[quote name='Moe Szyslak' timestamp='1296840757' post='2619369']
Since when did name-calling or setting your own definitions become an act of cowardice? Nations all around the world utilize different languages. [ooc]should the U.S. bomb France just because their word for pencil is crayon?[/ooc] I see your point though in noting that you didn't want anybody to make great notice of the fact that MK has gone downhill. Seriously though, if you were telling Molon Labe that you were officially at war with their allies, then their declarations on nations that weren't attacking directly as a response to such sanctioned alliance actions against their allies was justified. And if they insist on calling you a rogue alliance, that's really not an act of cowardice, it's just an act of name-calling.
[/quote]

It becomes an act of cowardice when setting your own definitions is done in such a way as to try to separate yourself from the larger war. They sought to opportunistically attack MK and Umbrella nations, while claiming that doing so was merely attacking rogues, rather than taking part in war. This is contrasting with MK and Umbrella, who send a few nations where needed to defend allies, who would openly admit to being at war with the alliances in question, simply without the need to make an announcement.

We could not let that pass, so this topic came about, acknowledging that ML in attacking MK and Umbrella nations is in fact a declaration of war in of itself, to stop them from hiding behind the "But we're only attacking rogues!" defense.



As an aside, you took the MK going downhill thing pretty badly out of context. MK is performing as well as it ever has, it simply has enough on its plate with the wars it already has going, we could not spare a full concentrated effort on the multitude of alliances that want our attention. So we spare what we can where it can be useful, but if we made an actual DoW for every one of these instances, it would in fact be filled with trolling about how we are making a DoW so that we could initiate a relatively small number of wars, while our attentions are focused elsewhere. So we skipped the middleman and a large portion of the trolling and simply attacked where needed. We have never tried to hide that we are at war with any alliance, and that is the key difference between our own actions and those of ML.

[AAAAAAAAAAGGGG]

Yeah, no one in Umbrella thinks ML are cowards for attacking us, not posting a DoW or anything like that. We understand why they are defending TPF, they have their reasons and we're fine with that. We don't care that they didn't post a DoW before declaring on our nations. A simple chat with them on IRC pretty much gave the full scoop as to what they were doing.

The only thing we found puzzling was the fact that they were declaring our members rogues even though government members told them point blank that they were acting under an official capacity. It's never been one alliance's job to dictate to another to tell them who a rogue in their alliance is. If you don't like their policy, you can declare war on them, and that's what ML did, so I'm fine with that.

And lastly, if you ever find yourself under attack by Umbrella, and you see no declaration of war, feel free to query a government member of Umbrella. There's generally a lot of us, and we'll tell you what we're doing. I've told the same thing to ARES when we had 2 nations help FOK, and Legion, when the same thing happened.

It's really not that big of a deal.

[ktarthan]

Wow, I am constantly amazed at the ability of the OWF to continue yammering over things that are explained within the first page or two. Aside from being completely reasonable, it's not a big deal. In fact, it's an incredibly small deal. Seriously people, just move on.

[Locke]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1296842188' post='2619384'][img]http://i56.tinypic.com/30vf7ef.jpg[/img][/quote][quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1296842298' post='2619385'][img]http://i51.tinypic.com/29vayqh.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
I swear, you two coordinate your posting just for the one-two punch of your sigs.

[The Trail]

Things just got interesting for the independents.

We could attack MK and TOP couldnt come to attack us, interesting.

(ooc note: I hold no goverment positions or any position of that matter in IRON, just making an observation)

Edited February 4, 2011 by The Trail

[Daikos]

The derp is strong in this thread.

o/ Umbrella

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1296842562' post='2619389']
I swear, you two coordinate your posting just for the one-two punch of your sigs.
[/quote]
I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Venizelos]

[quote name='The Trail' timestamp='1296844446' post='2619408']
Things just got interesting for the independents.

We could attack MK and TOP couldnt come to attack us, interesting.

(ooc note: I hold no goverment positions or any position of that matter in IRON, just making an observation)
[/quote]


i dont understand the logic behing this statement.

[The Trail]

[quote name='Venizelos' timestamp='1296845461' post='2619415']
i dont understand the logic behing this statement.
[/quote]

http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Duckroll (molon labe)

Hearts of IRON II with TOP (MDOAP)

Edited February 4, 2011 by The Trail

[Quinoa Rex]

[quote name='The Trail' timestamp='1296845875' post='2619421']
http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Duckroll (molon labe)

Hearts of IRON II with TOP (MDOAP)
[/quote]
That doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. I'm not sure what reason IRON would have to put TOP in that sort of position, considering not only that IRON and TOP are close friends but that an MDoAP outranks the Duckroll treaty, but um ... okay.

[mhawk]

[quote name='Seerow' timestamp='1296839935' post='2619364']
Okay, how has this gone on for 19 pages with people still not getting this?


Nobody has said that ML is bad for not posting a DoW when defending allies. We have never said it was necessary, and have never said that them not doing so is cowardice.

Had anyone bothered to ask MK, we would have acknowledged that we were at war with TPF, and whoever else we have a war or two declared on. There simply was no need to clutter the OWF with announcements for each one, particularly when we're only dedicating one or two nations to that front. I mean, could you hear the trolling? "LOL MK declared war on TPF but only declared 2 wars, they're goin downhill man". We are capable of assisting allies without any formal declaration.


[/quote]
I like that you guys mock and poke fun at all the alliances that declared on multiple alliances and had few wars launched, but then when you do the same thing refuse to make a DoW out of some sort of vanity issue? You guys really are insecure. Either stop making fun of alliances that launch few offensive wars, or start posting up DoW's each time your alliance goes to war.

[mhawk]

[quote name='Shayne Rivai' timestamp='1296841331' post='2619377']
Oh, really? Thanks, bro. I was unaware that you were a member of Duckroll and not only that, but with government access. Would you mind telling me when the next food drive starts? I wasn't at the last DR meeting and I really want to get rid of all this [i]BOLOGNA[/i] that you are dishing out -- I don't need it.

(Apologies for the double notification. We had some communications issues during the transmission.)
[/quote]
Never ever talk about the relation TPF holds with ML when you don't even know a founding member of ML.

[neneko]

[quote name='mhawk' timestamp='1296847032' post='2619436']
Never ever talk about the relation TPF holds with ML when you don't even know a founding member of ML.
[/quote]
He was actually talking about duckrolls support of this attack by ML. Unless I missed when TPF joined DR your response doesn't make a lot of sense.

[mhawk]

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1296847461' post='2619437']
He was actually talking about duckrolls support of this attack by ML. Unless I missed when TPF joined DR your response doesn't make a lot of sense.
[/quote]
He was talking about TFG not being able to know what goes on in DR because "he isn't a member of dr". One would only need to talk to ml a short while to know it is likely TFG knows the workings of ML and their relations extremely well.

[VenetianBlind]

No problems with Molon Labe coming out to defend TPF. But you guys should really have gotten on the same page as your coalition in terms of their "strategy". Hitting Umbrella while the rest of your coalition's top tier sits in peace mode? Hitting Umbrella the day we came out of anarchy from our NPO wars? Not even your side could spin that as strategy.

Good luck, I will grant that you are certainly bold.

[The Warrior]

Best of luck ML! Have fun and break something.

o/

[TheShammySocialist]

Good luck out there, ML. o/

Edited February 4, 2011 by TheShammySocialist

[ThatFALGuy]

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1296835892' post='2619310']
In the Umb-ML talks, yeah you did. AggieRebel's whole argument the entire conversation was "Well because Umb didn't formally declare, the members who attacked TPF are rogues, and therefore we have every right to attack them and you have no right to attack us back for doing so." Which is a load of passive aggressive crap.
[/quote]
Nobody ever said that MK or Umbrella have no right to attack back, not even >||< that much, please show me where that was stated or even eluded to. ML considered and may still consider the first attacks on TPF as rogue attacks just as they considered ML's attacks on THEM as rogue attacks (yeah, it's in writing on both parties, who cares though?). It's semantics, does ANYONE really think that ML even for a second thought that:

A. As rogues those nations were going to just be let free to fend for themselves.
B. They were not going to be defended in any way.
C. No-one may have differing opinions on issues at hand or differing definitions/meanings of actions? ML stated what it thought of the situation, IF anything, MK dictated that ML isn't allowed to think that way....
C. ML didn't see THIS coming. XD

ML is dictating nothing. Without DoW, attacks are considered rogues in ML's books. Are YOU dictating that ML can not provide it's own definition? I think THAT would be a form of dictating, would it not? If MK or Umbrella choose to defend rogues, all the power to them.

It's a two way street and been said as much. When ML was told that MK/Umbrella were defending their ally, ML replied the same in kind (though to be fair, it may have been more like "that's what we are doing") no crying, no "spinelessness", nothing, you defend, ML defends, everyone defends. YY, it's a defense party in da house. Whatever. Spineless would be ignoring it. ML ignores nothing, even if seldom seen around these here parts.

It was stated to ML that a couple of attacks didn't warrant a DoW, so ML didn't post one either, especially when the attacks amounted to even less.

And yes, this all is silly isn't it? Ever think that this just may be a show of how silly this whole situation has become?

And Xiph, some of that was aimed at you as I quoted you, of course (duh, right?), but not all. Most is simply a reply to much of the diatribe in general.


fake edit.... hmmm.. maybe the definition of "dictating" also varies as where I come from, to "dictate" to another person is to tell them that they can/can not/have a right/have no right to do something. I still don't see where ML performed any of the aforementioned actions, only expressed it's thoughts on a particular situation, then stuck to them. MK/Umbrella/anyone that so chooses can do whatever they want with said expressions. Maybe the first rule in the warriors handguide should be on which dictionary is agreeable and that everyones definitions are always exactly the same.

[Alterego]

[quote name='VenetianBlind' timestamp='1296848824' post='2619453']
No problems with Molon Labe coming out to defend TPF. But you guys should really have gotten on the same page as your coalition in terms of their "strategy". Hitting Umbrella while the rest of your coalition's top tier sits in peace mode? Hitting Umbrella the day we came out of anarchy from our NPO wars? Not even your side could spin that as strategy.

Good luck, I will grant that you are certainly bold.
[/quote]
If its purely in defence of TPF then it makes sense. Not being part of an overall strategy to fight for this coalition should be remembered by those being attacked by ML. This defensive attack stands apart from the NPpO coalition despite being drawn in by that conflict.

Edited February 4, 2011 by Alterego

[ThatFALGuy]

[quote name='Shayne Rivai' timestamp='1296841331' post='2619377']
Oh, really? Thanks, bro. I was unaware that you were a member of Duckroll and not only that, but with government access. [/quote]
You apparently are unaware. [i][b]I[/b][/i] am in fact the person that STATED in more than one way, ML has no desire to see DR take part in this, that DR is not warranted in any of this and that DR will not be called into any of this. ML is defending it's personal allies. This defending of personal allies has nothing to do with DR in any way, shape or form. IF DR comes in with force, it will be by other doings and not related to ML. Personally I just don't care for how it was originally put that ML "was told" they would not be backed, as if defending allies was a bad thing/choice or that defending its allies was based on if DR was ok with it, let alone, IIRC, by a non DR member. Did you question HIS information?
[quote]Would you mind telling me when the next food drive starts?[/quote]
No such thing as a food drive around here, get a gun and shoot something tasty. Being self reliant negates food drives.
[quote]I wasn't at the last DR meeting and I really want to get rid of all this [i]BOLOGNA[/i] that you are dishing out -- I don't need it. [/quote]
Venison bologna is very good, might do you some good to just eat a little of it for once, you're looking a little anemic.




To all you haters out there just frothing at the mouth, baiting and taunting like little school children for DR to come rolling to town, jesus $%&@, would you quit already? It's very tiresome. You act like little school children playing some silly assed browser based game about politics and nations or something, grow up already.


To all you lovers out there, I guess late is better than never and in the fashion of last years January/February war love fest, I announced that ML had turned 3, in the previous October. Well, it's that time of year again, ML turned 4, this previous October. Onwards to 5