Announcement from Umbrella and the Mushroom Kingdom

[Kowalski]

[quote name='Kilkenny' timestamp='1296819246' post='2619149']
Actually that sir is a direct Lie. Blatant and quite undefensable Lie. Find 1 Offensive war from TPF against either MK or Umb. The fact is we declared war on GOONs, not MK. If you wish to attack us for that, fine, they are a treaty partner of yours and it is your right. But you really need ot climb down off the High Horse you are sitting on about how you were attacked by us.
[/quote]
Try reading properly. I didn't say you had attacked us, I said it isn't our fault that you decided not to retaliate and attack us.

[Kowalski]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1296837181' post='2619327']
A casus belli is someones justification for war. DoomHouse/FAN gave their justification in their DoW. Whither [i]you[/i] agree with their justification is up to you but it doesn't take away from the fact that they actually had one.
[/quote]
Unfortunately it seems that when people say there's no CB it means no CB acceptable to them, and by acceptable to them they mean by their standards and what they'd be prepared to do themselves. So unless the CB is something that the opposite side would be comfortable doing themselves, there is no CB.

[quote name='Moe Szyslak' timestamp='1296839490' post='2619358']
Seems to me that if MK and Umbrella were attacking TPF nations without a formal declaration on those nations, then ML had every right to come to their defense with an equally non-existant DoW. Why all the surprise? I fail to see where it's only ok when one side does it.
[/quote]
Probably for the 967th time in this thread, we know we attacked some TPF nations (along with nations of other alliances) and we know ML had every right to attack us. Nobody has complained about ML doing that or said it's wrong/unfair/immoral/etc. We just decided to do something about it. The problem seems to be that whereas TPF (and others) declined to attack Umbrella and MK back, Umbrella and MK have decided to attack ML back, and because Umbrella and MK reacted to a situation differently than TPF (and others) means that we're hypocrites.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Kowalski

[Kowalski]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1296886901' post='2620121']
When did you start speaking on behalf of the Mushroom Kingdom?
[/quote]
Is that really your best comeback?

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Kowalski' timestamp='1296909754' post='2620418']
Is that really your best comeback?
[/quote]
I asked the MK a question, thus far they have ignored it and appear to be allowing you to speak for them.

[Kilkenny]

[quote name='Kowalski' timestamp='1296907231' post='2620400']
Try reading properly. I didn't say you had attacked us, I said it isn't our fault that you decided not to retaliate and attack us.
[/quote]


Ok, it was early and I wasn't quite awake yet. Re-reading it and I can see what you are saying and I apologize for calling you a liar.


That said...does this mean that TPF can at least get an acknowledgement from someone in MK/Umb that you have delcared war on us?? It does seem that everywhere in this thread you acknowledge attacking us, but skip the part where you Declare War on us.

I mean you claim we are losing and yall are winning this fine war, so not sure what the reluctance is to do this. I mean isn't that the least you can do?? We can at least post the Declaration on our war wall to look at later.

[WalkerNinja]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1296886901' post='2620121']
They used the same one that you guys used on NpO back in 2008. "They might one day pose a threat and right now they're isolated so get them!"
[/quote]

At the highest levels of competition, you've got to find a coach that's been in these situations before. I'm proud of our protege'. The entire situation is now falling into a predictable pattern. Instead of resisting with force, the weapon that their opponents choose to employ is the shedding of tears.

Start planning ahead, you'll be expected to come up with some self-important slogan about scars and commitment.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='WalkerNinja' timestamp='1296918126' post='2620484']
Instead of resisting with force, the weapon that their opponents choose to employ is the shedding of tears.
[/quote]
Our force seems to be having the desired effect on GOONS so far.

Or was them losing 40% of their NS in a week and a half of war part of the plan?

[youwish959]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1296904657' post='2620383']
Well, yes. That's the point of this thread. If you had read it, you would know this.
[/quote]
I think you should re-read the topic description.

[WalkerNinja]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1296918482' post='2620491']
Or was them losing 40% of their NS in a week and a half of war part of the plan?
[/quote]

You don't read very closely, do you?

[quote name='WalkerNinja' timestamp='1296918126' post='2620484']
The entire situation is now falling into a predictable pattern.
[/quote]

[Haflinger]

[quote name='WalkerNinja' timestamp='1296918767' post='2620498']
You don't read very closely, do you?
[/quote]
You said that the situation was falling into a predictable pattern, and then utterly failed to describe the pattern, instead substituting another situation that really isn't like this one at all in an attempt to pretend that this situation is like it.

[ThatFALGuy]

Honestly, I don't understand why this thread is here. It's pointless and uncalled for as well as clutters up the OWF.

/me shrugs

[WalkerNinja]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1296919038' post='2620501']
You said that the situation was falling into a predictable pattern, and then utterly failed to describe the pattern, instead substituting another situation that really isn't like this one at all in an attempt to pretend that this situation is like it.
[/quote]

Obviously the pattern is not as predictable to some. I knew this in advance and thus gave you some advice so that you could be prepared for the next scene.

You've yet to raise anything that was not initially addressed in my first comment. Feel free to ignore me and continue to regale us with advanced Casus Belli theory and how you will invariably prevail on the basis of GOONS' loss of total NS.

[Quinoa Rex]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1296918482' post='2620491']
Our force seems to be having the desired effect on GOONS so far.

Or was them losing 40% of their NS in a week and a half of war part of the plan?
[/quote]
I can't believe you're actually proud of piling on GOONS with what ... 11 other alliances? Can you guys just not cut it 4v1 or something?

[MagicalTrevor]

I'll take destroying NPOs upper tier infra for GOONS lower tier infra, good deal in fact. Add onto that the fact MK/Umb nations are still pretty much where they were pre-war, we can aid (from war-mode) GOONS meaning they can fight forever. What are yours going to do?

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1296892199' post='2620269']
Yeah on a long enough time line you would have fought them. On a long enough time line you will be fighting your own allies including TOP. Thats not "good reasoning" its paranoid speculation based of a historical truth that once you were enemies.
[/quote]
What does this have to do with my point or this thread?

It's not like we were ignoring each other before this.

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1296904135' post='2620381']
The OP seemed to imply that MK/Umbrella hadn't initiated a state of war with their attacks, but that ML had with their attacks. As long as we're clear that MK/Umbrella initiated that war, failed to declare war, and then "recognized hostilities" because ML wouldn't formally declare war on them (in other words the same thing done to TPF) then I'm not sure how talking about rogues really matters.[/quote]
We initiated war against TPF in response to their attack on GOONS. Then ML initiated war against us in response to our attack on TPF. Neither were declared wars. ML tried to deny that their attacks on our members constituted an attack on us.

I don't know why this is so difficult for people to understand or follow.

[Branimir]

[quote name='WalkerNinja' timestamp='1296918126' post='2620484']Start planning ahead, you'll be expected to come up with some self-important slogan about scars and commitment.[/quote]
Actually we are planing ahead and taking a page of the more politically savant.

We intent to surrender and then crawl into the ass hole of the guys that beat us, to make a MDoAP with them. I am sure we will soon find out how we are "intellectually compatible".

It is brilliant.

Anyway, war rawr, etc.

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1296926667' post='2620607']
Actually we are planing ahead and taking a page of the more politically savant.

We intent to surrender and then crawl into the ass hole of the guys that beat us, to make a MDoAP with them. I am sure we will soon find out how we are "intellectually compatible".

It is brilliant.

Anyway, war rawr, etc.
[/quote]
I'm curious if that is how you viewed the Legion after you defeated them in war, subjected them to a viceroy in their peace terms and then subsequently became their ally?

This world has seen many former enemies come together and become allies. Your alliance has done this so drop the 2008 propaganda piece and stop being so damn stupid.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Feanor Noldorin

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1296927694' post='2620621']
I'm curious if that is how you viewed the Legion after you defeated them in war, subjected them to a viceroy in their peace terms and then subsequently became their ally?
[/quote]
You can't even get history right, can you?

NPO didn't subject Legion to a viceroy in terms after defeating them in war.

NPO subjected Legion to a viceroy in terms that allowed Legion to avoid war entirely, after nearly all of Legion's government bailed on their membership.

It's not a pattern that is likely to ever be repeated again.

[Branimir]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1296927694' post='2620621']I'm curious if that is how you viewed the Legion after you defeated them in war, subjected them to a viceroy in their peace terms and then subsequently became their ally?[/quote]
Actually I am still pleasantly surprised that they decided to turn a leaf with us. For that they have my personal eternal loyalty. I consider them to be bigger man then us in that case. Which went on for years. It is not even as we had any imminent mutual enemy that we both hated and wanted to jump on which would help. It just happened.

But I got your point and touché, Sir. I am nothing if not a gentleman to recognize a fair jab. Maybe your other guy could stop jabbing my side so he doesn't receive some back at him. We are not Polars, if we are hated by mostly the same people. This is a different war. Maybe he can relieve some of his frustrations there.

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1296927694' post='2620621']..... so drop the 2008 propaganda piece and stop being so damn stupid.[/quote]
Maybe you could say that to your new buddies. You read their DoW,...right?

Edited February 5, 2011 by Branimir

[ThatFALGuy]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1296926626' post='2620606']
What does this have to do with my point or this thread?

It's not like we were ignoring each other before this.


We initiated war against TPF in response to their attack on GOONS. Then ML initiated war against us in response to our attack on TPF. Neither were declared wars. [b]ML tried to deny that their attacks on our members constituted an attack on us.[/b]

[i]I don't know why this is so difficult for people to understand or follow.[/i]
[/quote]
Please point to where ML denied anything. I don't recall seeing anything denied. Did ML in any way state that it was not at war with you, that it did not expect retaliation for defending its allies? Big deal, ML labeled your first guys rogues, semantics really, but semantics for a reason. You drew ML into the conflict by attacking it through extension of its allies. I do remember when you, or it may have been Umbrella to be fair, were first asked, WTFBBQ are you doing, the reply was defending your allies. When ML was asked, WTFBBQ are you doing, the witty reply was, uh, the same thing. This was the content of the first conversation. Why anything matters beyond that, I have no idea except for drama factor. Continue to push and dictate to ML what can and can not be done or said, or defined for that matter and you WILL of course find some stubborn as $%&@, sons of !@#$%*es. I have this sneaking suspicion that the same would be, is and has been found within MK, so I can only assume you understand the sentiment.

ML called your first guys rogues, everything else so far has been liquid brown !@#$%^&* though, even if it only amounts to mere semantics, a lie is a lie. The above bold, like the proverbial cake, is a lie. The italicized portion is moot as people are confused when things just don't add up. Why don't they add up? Because half of what is said is either A. a lie or B. conjecture and twist on something that means nothing to anyone but yourselves. It gives you a way to call ML the big ole meanie-stinky-head and nothing more. Of course people are confused.

I still don't see the point of this thread at all. It's 24 pages of "ML mean, no like how ML call enemy rogue, must post on OWF" Remember, it is not ML which is making the stink about even the slightest thing. ML is happy enough to beat on some rogues and be done or to have MK and Umbrella back said rogues and play a little rockem sockem. Does it really matter that much to you that they are called rogues, does it really warrant all this?

[Quinoa Rex]

[quote name='ThatFALGuy' timestamp='1296929082' post='2620659']
ML called your first guys rogues
[/quote]
It is not for you to decide whether or not our members are rogues, just like it's not for us to decide whether yours are. Your government member tried to inform us in the most deliberately obtuse of manners that it was just a rogue situation. We informed you otherwise and announced a recognition of hostilities purely to avoid confusion about who is actually at war with who.

Let me repeat that for anyone who didn't get it the first thousand times: [b][i][size="4"]it is an acknowledgement of hostilities that currently exist posted to avoid confusion about who is actually at war with who.[/size][/i][/b] The only thing I'm remotely upset about at this point is having to repeat that [i]ad nauseam[/i].

[Gobb]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1296911653' post='2620431']
I asked the MK a question, thus far they have ignored it and appear to be allowing you to speak for them.
[/quote]
It's been a sort of policy of MK for quite some time now not to issue formal acknowledgements of war or such for every attack on an ally of ours during a coalition war. We feel it's pretty safe to assume that if you've attacked an ally of ours and are being attacked by us, you are at war with us. If you want to clear things up though, feel free to ask our government.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Lord Gobb

[Kilkenny]

[quote name='Quinoa Rex' timestamp='1296929847' post='2620683']
Let me repeat that for anyone who didn't get it the first thousand times: [b][i][size="4"]it is an acknowledgement of hostilities that currently exist posted to avoid confusion about who is actually at war with who.[/size][/i][/b] The only thing I'm remotely upset about at this point is having to repeat that [i]ad nauseam[/i].
[/quote]


Well, it is still a little confusiong. why don't you just itemize who you are at war with so everyone knows. or is it a secret??

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1296788447' post='2618577']
Let it be known that GOD fully supports Umbrella and MK in this situation and will take action as necessary to reflect that. This is one of the few clear cut cases I have seen arise from this war and it makes my blood boil.
[/quote]

So you're mad at ML for doing literally the exact same thing MK has done to TPF?

[Tromp]

My god!

You really want that public DoW badly don't you?