King Wally Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 The following quote is taken directly from the Poison Clan wiki http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Poison_Clan [quote]Our unofficial motto is: Friends > Infra. [/quote] I'm just thinking you guys may want to start brainstorming a new unofficial motto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 [quote name='Tromp' timestamp='1292938568' post='2548289'] It is BS that you need to put non-chaining clause into a treaty. It's inherent to every relationship. [/quote] Well, most non-chaining clauses are poorly written. I generally just write the defense clause in such a way that it only triggers under certain specified conditions. But no. It's not inherent to every relationship. The obvious example is the MADP. [quote name='Tromp' timestamp='1292938568' post='2548289'] Now I know all of this is e-lawyering, and it is really sad that everyone tries to bend the written word for their benefit. Say you punch my girlfriend for no reason at all, would anyone really dare to take offense when I give you a punch in return? [/quote] You are trying to use an analogy based on individuals and apply it to state actions. It doesn't work. States sign treaties in order to advance their political goals. Sometimes those political goals mean they go to war; alliances sign chaining MDOAPs in order to have the protection of their allies available even when they're the ones initiating the war. That's the whole point of signing the treaty. Individuals don't get to go to war. If an individual decides to kill your girlfriend, then that's murder, and illegal. If a state orders it, it's either an execution or war, and (usually) legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EViL0nE Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 [quote name='King Wally' timestamp='1292938689' post='2548291'] The following quote is taken directly from the Poison Clan wiki http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Poison_Clan I'm just thinking you guys may want to start brainstorming a new unofficial motto. [/quote] Considering the path NEW took, calling them friends may be questionable. Allies, sure. Friends don't try to pull you into a fight without your consent just for the sake of starting a fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 (edited) post explaining the concept of an optional aggression clause #3452 Edit: It's not like NEW really has any room for complaint either given their behaviour in BiPolar. Has that been mentioned yet? Edited December 21, 2010 by Voytek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromp Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1292938900' post='2548295'] Well, most non-chaining clauses are poorly written. I generally just write the defense clause in such a way that it only triggers under certain specified conditions. But no. It's not inherent to every relationship. The obvious example is the MADP. [/quote] This is true, but that's also the only reason to sign an MADP. So you don't get this debate! [quote] You are trying to use an analogy based on individuals and apply it to state actions. It doesn't work. States sign treaties in order to advance their political goals. Sometimes those political goals mean they go to war; alliances sign chaining MDOAPs in order to have the protection of their allies available even when they're the ones initiating the war. That's the whole point of signing the treaty. Individuals don't get to go to war. If an individual decides to kill your girlfriend, then that's murder, and illegal. If a state orders it, it's either an execution or war, and (usually) legal. [/quote] Yes, I was aware the analogy wasn't perfect, but the point came across. In any case, I don't think non-chaining clauses have to be present in a treaty, since it is the way the war started that makes how you have to interpret a treaty. And I have outlined in an earlier post how I see it in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWilliam Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 [quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1292913921' post='2547970'] Since nobody else has hit NEW, I would imagine so. [/quote] Without looking to speak for either PC or iFOK, I'd say that's a reasonable assessment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Bad Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 And people wonder why Planet Bob is on its death bed. Who would have though a bloc that should have been shaking things up would end up making its members timid and the bloc completely worthless. Agree or not agree with what NEW has done but in the end when they get attacked you roll with your allies. I don't know iFOK but, PC I know you and this is not you. Well its nice to see NEWs other allies at least are willing to back them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 [quote name='The Big Bad' timestamp='1292940500' post='2548311'] And people wonder why Planet Bob is on its death bed. Who would have though a bloc that should have been shaking things up would end up making its members timid and the bloc completely worthless. Agree or not agree with what NEW has done but in the end when they get attacked you roll with your allies. I don't know iFOK but, PC I know you and this is not you. Well its nice to see NEWs other allies at least are willing to back them. [/quote] Planet Bob is not on its death bed because of optional aggression clauses, sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriekfreak Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1292938069' post='2548281'] This would all be relevant if NEW hadn't signed a pile of chaining MDOAPs. Read the treaties, they are clearly chaining MDOAPs. The whole point of signing non-chaining treaties is so that you can use the logic espoused here. [/quote] When are you in charge of deciding if our treaties are chaining or non-chaining? All our treaties are non-chaining. Stop worrying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBone Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 [quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1292939603' post='2548306'] Without looking to speak for either PC or iFOK, I'd say that's a reasonable assessment. [/quote] You can speak for them, it's a perk that comes along with the marionette kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 [quote name='JBone' timestamp='1292945916' post='2548370'] You can speak for them, it's a perk that comes along with the marionette kit. [/quote] This is true. Sir William speaks for me, in all things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBone Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1292948323' post='2548395'] This is true. Sir William speaks for me, in all things. [/quote] ...is the Tonberry King aware of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWilliam Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 [quote name='JBone' timestamp='1292945916' post='2548370'] You can speak for them, it's a perk that comes along with the marionette kit. [/quote] I'm the GOONS, not PB, Viceroy. [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1292948323' post='2548395'] This is true. Sir William speaks for me, in all things. [/quote] All part of the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 [quote name='JBone' timestamp='1292949350' post='2548408'] ...is the Tonberry King aware of this? [/quote] My good man, I no longer cowtow to the one known as.... Archon. Sir William 4lyfe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacingOutMan Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1292950890' post='2548426'] My good man, I no longer cowtow to the one known as.... Archon. Sir William 4lyfe! [/quote] I wouldn't say that too loudly Rush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 [quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1292951668' post='2548437'] I wouldn't say that too loudly Rush. [/quote] Its ok.. Sir William protects me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBone Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 [quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1292949910' post='2548418'] I'm the GOONS, not PB, Viceroy. All part of the job. [/quote] Smoke & Mirrors. [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1292950890' post='2548426'] My good man, I no longer cowtow to the one known as.... Archon. Sir William 4lyfe! [/quote] There'll be hell to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 Dey see me realpolitikin, dey hatin [s]freinds>infra moniker[/s] In power>Not in power Dont be hatin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercoolyellow Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 [quote name='King Wally' timestamp='1292938689' post='2548291'] The following quote is taken directly from the Poison Clan wiki http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Poison_Clan I'm just thinking you guys may want to start brainstorming a new unofficial motto. [/quote] I have one for them. Spheres>Friends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromp Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 [quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1292953202' post='2548466'] I have one for them. Spheres>Friends [/quote] I have one for you: party line > brains Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The MVP Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 It appears as if all of [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=nusantara+elite+warriors&input1=poison+clan"]PC won't go in,[/url] that [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=Fark&input1=nusantara+elite+warriors"]some of them will.[/url] To those in PC who left to fight for NEW, nothing bad can be said of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWilliam Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 (edited) It's as if PC and iFOK won't have NEW's backs if any bandwagoners jump in, or that they wouldn't have NEW's backs under any other circumstances, or that they wouldn't have their others allies' (fellow PB signatories included) backs if needed. Lets be real, none of that is true. What is true is that PC and iFOK recognized right from wrong here, and had to make some tough decisions both for themselves but also for their allies (who overwhelmingly weren't on board for NEW's suicide run). "NEW's actions are despicable. Anybody who supports said actions are despicable... PC and iFOK aren't supporting them!? WTF, those cowards!" Girls, please. Edited December 21, 2010 by SirWilliam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general tso Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 [quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1292956921' post='2548527'] It's as if PC and iFOK won't have NEW's backs if any bandwagoners jump in, or that they wouldn't have NEW's backs under any other circumstances, or that they wouldn't have their others allies' (fellow PB signatories included) backs if needed. Lets be real, none of that is true. What is true is that PC and iFOK recognized right from wrong here, and had to make some tough decisions both for themselves but also for their allies (who overwhelmingly weren't on board for NEW's suicide run). "NEW's actions are despicable. Anybody who supports said actions are despicable... PC and iFOK aren't supporting them!? WTF, those cowards!" Girls, please. [/quote] The idea here is not step up or down according to actions, as you should know what kind of partners you sign treaties with. Rather the issue is how a MDoAP does not grant protection for an ally. The agression was on DF, they need no help there, however they are defending against all other parties. This is where explanatins fall into the realm of excuses. *personal non sanctioned opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 Did I just see an MK/GOONS member say that a raid was despicable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromp Posted December 21, 2010 Report Share Posted December 21, 2010 [quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1292956921' post='2548527'][...] "NEW's actions are despicable. Anybody who supports said actions are despicable... PC and iFOK aren't supporting them!? WTF, those cowards!" Girls, please. [/quote] You forgot this part: "FEAR and WFF support NEW? How good and awesome, hail!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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