Pandora's Box

[D34th]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1286333237' post='2476756']
You're right, you weren't. You were fighting VE and our allies like Tetris, Ninjas, and WF, as well as Kronos, and their losses were negligible compared to ours because you focused your counterattack on us. All of the alliances plus VE combined were still far short of your NS at the time.
[/quote]

Yeah we were fighting also: GOD, \m/, PC and FOK, may be you have a selective memory problem. I also don't know about that we focused our counter attack on VE since I was designed to 2 Kronos nations...

But keep repeating that, may be you and someone else will believe in that some day.

[Goldie]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1286333592' post='2476773']
Yeah we were fighting also: GOD, \m/, PC and FOK, may be you have a selective memory problem. I also don't know about that we focused our counter attack on VE since I was designed to 2 Kronos nations...

But keep repeating that, may be you and someone else will believe in that some day.
[/quote]

It is you with the selective memory. Of those four alliances, you were fighting GOD only during the two to three weeks VE was fighting you. We engaged you after you declared on GOD who was fighting NSO, around a week or more after you had made peace with FOK/PC/m.

[Xiphosis]

So uh, not to be a creeper but... anyone got pics of pandora's box?

[Jay Z]

[font="Arial Black"]Bloc Name[/font]
[b]Bloc Member Alliance[/b]
[i]MDP/MDoAP'd to Bloc member[/i]
[color="#FF0000"]In another bloc[/color]
[s]Allied to another bloc, but not in another bloc[/s]



[font="Arial Black"][b]Complaints and Grievances[/b][/font]
[b]GR[/b]
[b]FoB[/b]
[b]ODN[/b]
[b]Total[/b] 12,826,209
[color="#FF0000"][i]GOONS[/i][/color]
[color="#FF0000"][i]CSN[/i][/color]
[color="#FF0000"][i]PC[/i][/color]
[b]Total[/b] 12,275,707
[s][b]Athens[/b][/s]
[s][i]Int[/i][/s]
[s][b]LOST[/b][/s]
[s][i]Sparta[/i][/s]
[s][i]GATO[/i][/s]
[s][i]NV[/i][/s]
[b]Total[/b] 31,911,406
[i]IAA [/i]
[i]CCC[/i]
[i]Carpe Diem[/i]
[i]Genesis[/i]
[i]DT [/i]
[i]UPN[/i]
[b]Total[/b] 17,368,886

[font="Arial Black"][b]Superfriends[/b][/font]
[b]RnR[/b]
[b]MA[/b]
[b]Total[/b] 7,010,589
[color="#FF0000"][i]VE[/i][/color]
[color="#FF0000"][i]GOONS[/i][/color]
[color="#FF0000"][i]FOK[/i][/color]
[color="#FF0000"][i]Athens[/i][/color]
[b]Total[/b] 26,215,352
[s][b]RIA[/b][/s]
[s][b]CSN[/b][/s]
[s][b]GOD[/b][/s]
[s][b]ROK[/b][/s]
[s][i]Guru Order[/i][/s]
[s][i]Sparta[/i][/s]
[s][i]Fark[/i][/s]
[s][i]Int[/i][/s]
[s][i]MHA[/i][/s]
[b]Total[/b] 61,309,823
[i]TTK[/i]
[i]Silence [/i]
[i]NoR[/i]
[i]IRON [/i]
[i]Valhalla[/i]
[b]Total[/b] 19,941,956


[font="Arial Black"][b]Pandora's Box[/b][/font]
[b]Umbrella[/b]
[b]iFoK[/b]
[b]Total[/b] 10,181,504
[color="#FF0000"][i]GOD[/i][/color]
[color="#FF0000"][i]RIA[/i][/color]
[color="#FF0000"][i]LOST[/i][/color]
[color="#FF0000"][i]Athens[/i][/color]
[color="#FF0000"][i]RoK[/i][/color]
[b]Total[/b] 20,906,927
[s][b]PC[/b][/s]
[s][b]VE[/b][/s]
[s][b]GOONS[/b][/s]
[s][b]FOK[/b][/s]
[s][i]Fark[/i][/s]
[s][i]Guru Order[/i][/s]
[s][i]GATO[/i][/s]
[s][i]NV[/i][/s]
[s][i]MHA[/i][/s]
[s][i]Sparta[/i][/s]
[b]Total[/b] 76,537,547
[i]WF[/i]
[i]Brigade [/i]
[i]AO[/i]
[i]Argent[/i]
[i]NEW[/i]
[i]SLCB[/i]
[b]Total[/b] 18,090,435

Edit: YAY COMMAS!


Edit 2: The point of this:

Breakdown of Blocs (Without conflicting treaties):
CnG: 29million total NS
Superfriends: 26 million total NS
Pandora: 28 million total NS

Edited October 6, 2010 by Jay Z

[Argin]

I'm not sure I'm reading that right, but if you're suggesting VE is a member of Superfriends you're wrong.

[Jay Z]

[quote name='Argin' timestamp='1286334814' post='2476796']
I'm not sure I'm reading that right, but if you're suggesting VE is a member of Superfriends you're wrong.
[/quote]

No they are italicized so they are ALLIED to a member of superfriends (more than 1 in this case )

[D34th]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1286334130' post='2476785']
It is you with the selective memory. Of those four alliances, you were fighting GOD only during the two to three weeks VE was fighting you. We engaged you after you declared on GOD who was fighting NSO, around a week or more after you had made peace with FOK/PC/m.
[/quote]

Not matter how much time we fought each of these alliances, we were the ones who were outnumbered not you, so please don't come saying that we are bigger than you until you attack us alone since this doesn't matter when we are fighting various alliances, when VE declared on us 5 or 6 days after we still were in nuclear anarchy and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fair sure that our top nations were outnumbered, also I'm sure that who did the majority of damage on us was PC and FOK so don't try to steal your allies performance in that war to use for your own glory.

Also with the help of a friend I saw that we started the war with 14,535,332 NS and when VE declared on us we had 11,950,858 NS and at Feb 8th the last record show us with 10,638,912 NS so unless VE damaged Polaris on more 1,7m NS until the white peace the fact VE damaged us in 3m NS is just a lie, also this numbers show that your alliance weren't who most damaged us, so next time keep the facts straight.

Edit: Statistics are available [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=79619&st=100&p=2169364&#entry2169364"]HERE[/url]

Edited October 6, 2010 by D34th

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Jay Z' timestamp='1286335002' post='2476802']
No they are italicized so they are ALLIED to a member of superfriends (more than 1 in this case )
[/quote]

I think including treaty partners is misleading information since so many over lap, especially ones in other blocs who will clearly hold their bloc as their highest allegiance.

[Bilrow]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1286333011' post='2476748']
You're reaaaaaally stretching those two sound bytes for all they're worth Bilrow. I'm sure when NPO leadership attempts to sell members of the BR (who may not always be as politically knowledgeable as the gov members) on a significant new treaty like a bloc that they are sure to touch on the impact that the treaty would have on the alliance's influence and its position in the game.

This bloc has already started to fulfill part of what I said, it is breaking up stagnation in the game simply by such a seemingly polarizing issue being talked about. Hopefully it becomes a reality and then we can all continue to have fun with each other.
[/quote]


Actually being led by an Emperor, the Body Republic usually finds out the same time as it is announced here on any treaty. Typically there aren't rationals given.

[Jay Z]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1286335873' post='2476829']
I think including treaty partners is misleading information since so many over lap, especially ones in other blocs who will clearly hold their bloc as their highest allegiance.
[/quote]

Which is why I had totals for seperate groups. Ex. if CnG DoWs pandora you would add pandora's only alliances to pandoras non-conflicting treaties. Then on top of that add or subtract the alliances NS that is like [s]this[/s] or [color="#FF0000"]this[/color] depending on which way you feel their allegiance will go.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Jay Z

[Goldie]

[quote name='Bilrow' timestamp='1286335931' post='2476831']
Actually being led by an Emperor, the Body Republic usually finds out the same time as it is announced here on any treaty. Typically there aren't rationals given.
[/quote]

I pity you for having a membership who isn't in tune enough with the world to care when the government does something against the status quo. One of the beauties of Viridia is that we have a myriad of people who all have the ability to form opinions on things, and we like to inform them so they aren't surprised by something we have already made into law and give them a chance to share those opinions.

[Bilrow]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1286336158' post='2476839']
I pity you for having a membership who isn't in tune enough with the world to care when the government does something against the status quo. One of the beauties of Viridia is that we have a myriad of people who all have the ability to form opinions on things, and we like to inform them so they aren't surprised by something we have already made into law and give them a chance to share those opinions.
[/quote]

Different strokes for different people. Depends on what type of alliance you want to be in. Anyone can "vote with their feet" and find an alliance that operates the way they like if they are unhappy.

[Goldie]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1286335706' post='2476823']
Not matter how much time we fought each of these alliances, we were the ones who were outnumbered not you, so please don't come saying that we are bigger than you until you attack us alone since this doesn't matter when we are fighting various alliances, when VE declared on us 5 or 6 days after we still were in nuclear anarchy and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fair sure that our top nations were outnumbered, also I'm sure that who did the majority of damage on us was PC and FOK so don't try to steal your allies performance in that war to use for your own glory.

Also with the help of a friend I saw that we started the war with 14,535,332 NS and when VE declared on us we had 11,950,858 NS and at Feb 8th the last record show us with 10,638,912 NS so unless VE damaged Polaris on more 1,7m NS until the white peace the fact VE damaged us in 3m NS is just a lie, also this numbers show that your alliance weren't who most damaged us, so next time keep the facts straight.

Edit: Statistics are available [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=79619&st=100&p=2169364&#entry2169364"]HERE[/url]
[/quote]

The 3 million number is just from my memory, I remember being 'oh hey, look NpO is down 3 million since we DoW'd them'.

That being said, a quick glance at the Sanction Race will show a decline of about 10-11 score in the two weeks following VE's entry for Polar, and the same period will show around a four score drop for VE.

I thought VE and Polar had a very respectable war, and in the months since and before the declaration we haven't said anything negative about you guys or really commented on the war, but for you guys to imply that we were overrated when you can't have any basis for it, especially if you look at the war history, it pulls out me having to comment on it.

[snibbmaster]

[quote name='Argin' timestamp='1286334814' post='2476796']
I'm not sure I'm reading that right, but if you're suggesting VE is a member of Superfriends you're wrong.
[/quote]

Or that Athens isn't in C&G.

[Jay Z]

[quote name='snibbmaster' timestamp='1286336731' post='2476852']
Or that Athens isn't in C&G.
[/quote]

..They are bolded. They are in CnG. They are crossed out, they have direct MDoAPs or MDPs with members of another bloc.

[D34th]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1286336494' post='2476845']
I thought VE and Polar had a very respectable war, and in the months since and before the declaration we haven't said anything negative about you guys or really commented on the war, but for you guys to imply that we were overrated when you can't have any basis for it, especially if you look at the war history, it pulls out me having to comment on it.
[/quote]

If you read Grumpdogg post you will see that isn't related with the war but with his point of view about VE reputation in general not about your war skills, and besides my dislike for VE I never said anything about your performance in that war until today after you came with the lie that VE did 3M NS damaged in Polaris what's even you recognize that is a lie. So you was who brought the war subject for this thread and now try to paint us as revisionists and disrespectful what is laughable.

Edited October 6, 2010 by D34th

[Elendil old]

[quote name='Reptyler' timestamp='1286230940' post='2474658']
When we left, we were[b] the first alliance to cancel on NPO, ever,[/b] and got rolled for it, [i]all before your alliance ever existed[/i].
[/quote]
Not sure that's true if we look at GWI, then again not sure what happened with the Dove Doctrine/ our treaty with Legion

[Choader]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1286335706' post='2476823']
Not matter how much time we fought each of these alliances, we were the ones who were outnumbered not you, so please don't come saying that we are bigger than you until you attack us alone since this doesn't matter when we are fighting various alliances, when VE declared on us 5 or 6 days after we still were in nuclear anarchy and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fair sure that our top nations were outnumbered, also I'm sure that who did the majority of damage on us was PC and FOK so don't try to steal your allies performance in that war to use for your own glory.

Also with the help of a friend I saw that we started the war with 14,535,332 NS and when VE declared on us we had 11,950,858 NS and at Feb 8th the last record show us with 10,638,912 NS so unless VE damaged Polaris on more 1,7m NS until the white peace the fact VE damaged us in 3m NS is just a lie, also this numbers show that your alliance weren't who most damaged us, so next time keep the facts straight.

Edit: Statistics are available [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=79619&st=100&p=2169364&#entry2169364"]HERE[/url]
[/quote]
You know, at the time you were insisting that PC and FOK's damage to you was just a pinprick.

[Bob Ilyani]

This thread needs more awesome bloc art.

[D34th]

[quote name='Choader' timestamp='1286339472' post='2476908']
You know, at the time you were insisting that PC and FOK's damage to you was just a pinprick.
[/quote]

Link for my post saying that?

[Derwood1]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1286340218' post='2476919']
Link for my post saying that?
[/quote]

No don't find it Choader, I am reveling in the compliments that D34th is heaping on us!!

[Goldie]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1286337184' post='2476861']
If you read Grumpdogg post you will see that isn't related with the war but with his point of view about VE reputation in general not about your war skills, and besides my dislike for VE I never said anything about your performance in that war until today after you came with the lie that VE did 3M NS damaged in Polaris what's even you recognize that is a lie. So you was who brought the war subject for this thread and now try to paint us as revisionists and disrespectful what is laughable.
[/quote]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa...

I said:

"The 3 million number is just from my memory, I remember being 'oh hey, look NpO is down 3 million since we DoW'd them'."

That doesn't mean it wasn't 100% accurate. I wouldn't have said I recalled it if I didn't actually recall it.

[url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=299&view=findpost&p=2157661]Feb 3, 2010 stats[/url]

NpO: 12.016 mil
VE: 8.087 mil

[url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=299&view=findpost&p=2195383]Feb 21, 2010 stats[/url]

NpO: 8.762 mil
VE: 6.879 mil

Difference:

NpO: [b]-3.254 mil[/b]
VE: -1.208 mil

At the time I said 'I just recalled seeing it' it was because I wanted to be lazy and not look up stats, not because it wasn't 100% truthful, so be careful who you say is the liar.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1286342113' post='2476936']
Whoa whoa whoa whoa...

I said:

"The 3 million number is just from my memory, I remember being 'oh hey, look NpO is down 3 million since we DoW'd them'."

That doesn't mean it wasn't 100% accurate. I wouldn't have said I recalled it if I didn't actually recall it.

[url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=299&view=findpost&p=2157661]Feb 3, 2010 stats[/url]

NpO: 12.016 mil
VE: 8.087 mil

[url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=299&view=findpost&p=2195383]Feb 21, 2010 stats[/url]

NpO: 8.762 mil
VE: 6.879 mil

Difference:

NpO: [b]-3.254 mil[/b]
VE: -1.208 mil

At the time I said 'I just recalled seeing it' it was because I wanted to be lazy and not look up stats, not because it wasn't 100% truthful, so be careful who you say is the liar.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I'm sorry, but VE wasn't the only alliance fighting NpO. Remember when NpO was fighting TOP as well (it was on both sides....BiPolar it is called for a reason). I am pretty sure they did more damage than you did. Then there is GOD as well, and the several other alliances fighting Polaris at the time.

Please, you're not the elite military powerhouse you think you are, and neither are most of the other alliances in this bloc. Umbrella, certainly, and PC, maybe, due to their small numbers certainly are above par. But VE, iFOK, and FOK, you're all average at best. GOONS on the other hand is just a complete cluster of newbies.

So, now that this is settled, think you can quiet with your empty bluster? No one is impressed.[/color]

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1286342480' post='2476941']
[color="#0000FF"]

Please, you're not the elite military powerhouse you think you are, and neither are most of the other alliances in this bloc. Umbrella, certainly, and PC, maybe, due to their small numbers certainly are above par. But VE, iFOK, and FOK, you're all average at best. GOONS on the other hand is just a complete cluster of newbies.

[/color]
[/quote]

Fok are actually quite talented fighters. When MCXA fought them they had great military wonder counts for smaller nation, although they had been warring for some time, great warchests even at that point, and their coordination was inspirational. There is a reason why Fok was discussed for joining Citadel. They fight at that level.

[Necromancer V4L]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1286336158' post='2476839']
I pity you for having a membership who isn't in tune enough with the world to care when the government does something against the status quo. One of the beauties of Viridia is that we have a myriad of people who all have the ability to form opinions on things, and we like to inform them so they aren't surprised by something we have already made into law and give them a chance to share those opinions.
[/quote]

Being in the rare position of being both a member of NPO and VE at one time, I would have to say that NPO not only did a better job informing membership of world politics than VE, but also a better job of seeking out their opinions.

When is Pandora's Box going to open, anyway? I am growing pretty tired of everyone pretending like they don't already know what's going on.