TehChron Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 [quote name='dvdcchn' timestamp='1284443180' post='2453354'] the logs of plotting i have do not refer to the ROK war, but surely you do have the logs, you had mentioned them several times. it is clear how well the sith take pause to review the situation first, so please post away. [/quote]What logs of what plotting? Please dont create imaginary straw mans. It's a waste of everyone's time. [quote]so far i have showed logs to post where we had planned to aid, when it was said we had not, as well as others.[/quote]It became a moot point the moment it turned out our former Econ Master admitted that he went through the motions with you and then neglected to mention that fact to the rest of us. By the time you posted those logs, that matter was already settled, so what does that have to do with anything? [quote]Ego had repeated that IRON never directly or indirectly asked R&R to go to war for you, and has stated we were actually pretty upset with it.[/quote]Not referring to IRON, just you. Tell you what, I'll bite this time because you asked nicely. [quote] (1:19:20 PM) Jrenster: we found logs of one of your gov members recommending to RoK to have rnr hit us so that you could stay out (1:19:23 PM) Heggo: We ended up getting logs of one of your gov members (or ex-high gov? I don't recall the time line) (1:19:26 PM) Heggo: yeah, what jren said. (1:19:38 PM) RandomHero[IRON|KoT|OJ]: who? (1:19:40 PM) Heggo: It was DVD I think. (1:19:43 PM) RandomHero[IRON|KoT|OJ]: ex (1:19:48 PM) Heggo: Only response back from Peron was that he hadn't heard about it (1:19:49 PM) RandomHero[IRON|KoT|OJ]: is now anyways (1:19:51 PM) Jrenster: ah yeah, he's former gov now (1:19:55 PM) Heggo: and then DVD flipped his !@#$ at me on IRC. (1:20:12 PM) Jrenster: we were hoping for some sort of investigation on the truth of the matter (1:20:19 PM) Notadolfhitler{IRON}: Well (1:20:20 PM) Notadolfhitler{IRON}: heggo jren (1:20:26 PM) Notadolfhitler{IRON}: DVD did it without anyone else saying so (1:20:49 PM) Jrenster: yeah that's what we presumed as well, either that or the logs were faked, but we don't think that they were (1:20:50 PM) Notadolfhitler{IRON}: but we had no idea it was happening (1:21:16 PM) Heggo: Okay, so it wasn't government authorized? Just an issue of one loner acting out? Or was he expressing a more common sentiment? (1:21:30 PM) Notadolfhitler{IRON}: I have no idea what DVD (1:21:38 PM) Notadolfhitler{IRON}: was doing[/quote] I hope that clears up your confusion? Or hopefully stops you from playing dumb. [quote]hoo had mentioned that is was not a direct quote as well, as well as the intent is in question on it. i think you should go ahead and prove me wrong then. [/quote] No I think I just proved you a liar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdcchn Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 [quote name='Chron' timestamp='1284444520' post='2453362'] blah blah blah [/quote] no, as it was said, i am no longer gov, i was not part of that conversation or privy to it. of course i flipped on heggo, i didnt think it was a secret how i felt about it, and now it is no secret how i feel about you, just you chron. speaking of playing dumb, back to those logs where i was planning war.... as for Hoo, despite my influence in the SF war council, i can not speak for him, other than this being one of his many quotes here [quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1284336046' post='2451723'] I have no idea if they leaked it on purpose, were just hoping that would happen, or were just discussing possibilities. I only know that it was enough to make our decision on how to go about our attack easier ... [/quote] keep fishing, its cute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 (edited) [quote name='dvdcchn' timestamp='1284444970' post='2453369'] no, as it was said, i am no longer gov, i was not part of that conversation or privy to it. of course i flipped on heggo, i didnt think it was a secret how i felt about it, and now it is no secret how i feel about you, just you chron. speaking of playing dumb, back to those logs where i was planning war....[/quote] Ah yes, the classic "words" defense followed up with a straw man deflection. I have to say, you're quite good at this. Please point out where I ever argued any of that, claimed you were ever planning war, or even said any of the stuff you're making up on the spot. I've said it before, I'll say it again; You sir, are a liar. A blatant liar. A flagrant liar. A shameless liar. You do your alliance a disservice through your actions of base cowardice, and shame them publicly through your disingenuous behavior. You say I made an argument I didnt make, then claim I need to prove something I never said existed? Come now, that's just pathetic. You're both lying and using a straw man. How shameless. [quote] as for Hoo, despite my influence in the SF war council, i can not speak for him, other than this being one of his many quotes here [/quote] I dont think anyone's saying that Hoo's word here is worth it's weight in gold. But hey if there is, point them out and I'll set them straight. Thanks in advance. [quote]keep fishing, its cute [/quote] What am I fishing for? You're the one thats ignoring logs thrown in your face as if they were about some tangential, irrelevant issue rather than evidence relevant to the discussion. Once again, my best wishes to IRON, and I hope things turn out well for them despite all this. Edited September 14, 2010 by Chron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusty Juggler Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 (edited) I don't see how you can give all these best wishes to us and at the same time lay a smear campaign on DVD. You like to call him a liar, but so far have failed to show any of "Also the logs passed around were of you commenting on how RhR(sp?) declaring on us would make life easier for IRON, and thats what I was referring to.", and in fact seem to want to repeat this without any evidence. Want to wish IRON all the best, just stop and let the ugliness and this thread die. Edited September 14, 2010 by Crusty Juggler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdcchn Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Chron' timestamp='1284445748' post='2453374'] Ah yes, the classic "words" defense followed up with a straw man deflection. I have to say, you're quite good at this. Please point out where I ever argued any of that, claimed you were ever planning war, or even said any of the stuff you're making up on the spot. [/quote] remember this, it was a few minutes ago,i can see how you forgot... [quote name='Chron' timestamp='1284440874' post='2453328'] [b]Going around and trying to spread the tale far and wide about how the best way to screw a treaty partner[/b] tends to make your comments pretty laughable. Take it from me, when you're comparable to Doppelganger in terms of causing headaches for actual government, and not even half as awesome, you really should consider refraining from commenting. I mean, at least Dopp wasn't advocating a coward or backstabbers approach to anything. [/quote] [quote name='Chron' timestamp='1284445748' post='2453374'] I've said it before, I'll say it again; You sir, are a liar. [/quote] and the wambullance continues, [quote name='Chron' timestamp='1284445748' post='2453374'] A blatant liar. A flagrant liar. A shameless liar. You do your alliance a disservice through your actions of base cowardice, and shame them publicly through your disingenuous behavior. [/quote] didnt we just finish discussing how i felt about you, wait, didn't you just say i did not advocate this? where was it? oh this same comment.. [quote name='Chron' timestamp='1284445748' post='2453374'] Please point out where I ever argued any of that, claimed you were ever planning war, or even said any of the stuff you're making up on the spot. [/quote] [quote name='Chron' timestamp='1284445748' post='2453374'] You say I made an argument I didnt make, then claim I need to prove something I never said existed? Come now, that's just pathetic. You're both lying and using a straw man. How shameless. [/quote] the straw man really, is there where you try to spin an argument on technicality, it would help if i hadnt kept admitting how i felt, and when i felt it. i did say of course i flipped on Heggo, did i felt bad about it, yes, and tried to explain it was just my opinion, oh well, my feelings were proven true, no loss there. [quote name='Chron' timestamp='1284445748' post='2453374'] I dont think anyone's saying that Hoo's word here is worth it's weight in gold. But hey if there is, point them out and I'll set them straight. Thanks in advance. [/quote] isn't this what you have been arguing about my cowardliness about?, ok the person saying that is you, you should set yourself straight. [quote name='Chron' timestamp='1284445748' post='2453374'] What am I fishing for? You're the one thats ignoring logs thrown in your face as if they were about some tangential, irrelevant issue rather than evidence relevant to the discussion. [/quote] how is it ignored when i said its true, i did flip on heggo? [quote name='Chron' timestamp='1284445748' post='2453374'] Once again, my best wishes to IRON, and I hope things turn out well for them despite all this. [/quote] agreed Edited September 14, 2010 by dvdcchn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdcchn Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Crusty Juggler' timestamp='1284446111' post='2453381'] just stop and let the ugliness and this thread die. [/quote] agreed,there is nothing really left to say, for the sake of the friendships that some have across the fence, i'll stop as well. best luck on your path NSO. Edited September 14, 2010 by dvdcchn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KainIIIC Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 [quote name='Crusty Juggler' timestamp='1284446111' post='2453381'] Want to wish IRON all the best, just stop and let the ugliness and this thread die. [/quote] yes, stop all. i don't care for the back-and-forth dribble and i'm sure most don't. </thread> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 [quote name='Crusty Juggler' timestamp='1284446111' post='2453381'] I don't see how you can give all these best wishes to us and at the same time lay a smear campaign on DVD. You like to call him a liar, but so far have failed to show any of "Also the logs passed around were of you commenting on how RhR(sp?) declaring on us would make life easier for IRON, and thats what I was referring to.", and in fact seem to want to repeat this without any evidence. [/quote]Well, I just posted logs where my government asked your government about this, they acknowledged that the logs existed, and he did so without their permission. This way, the veracity of the logs in question isnt doubted, but are acknowledged as legitimate. The point is that the logs exist. They are acknowledged, and they are said to be his words alone. [quote] Want to wish IRON all the best, just stop and let the ugliness and this thread die. [/quote]Once dvdcchn quits trying to spin himself as the great hero, sure. [quote]Please point out where I ever argued any of that, [b]claimed you were ever planning war[/b], or even said any of the stuff you're making up on the spot.[/quote] [quote][b]Going around and trying to spread the tale far and wide[/b] about how the best way to screw a treaty partner tends to make your comments pretty laughable.[/quote] I honestly didn't know that running your mouth was equivalent to war planning these days. And from an ex-government member, no less! [quote]and the wambullance continues,[/quote]I'm not even going to touch on the irony of this statement, considering your commentary. [quote] didnt we just finish discussing how i felt about you, wait, didn't you just say i did not advocate this? where was it? oh this same comment..[/quote] [quote] (1:19:20 PM) Jrenster: we found logs of one of your gov members recommending to RoK to have rnr hit us so that you could stay out ... (1:20:19 PM) Notadolfhitler{IRON}: Well (1:20:20 PM) Notadolfhitler{IRON}: heggo jren (1:20:26 PM) Notadolfhitler{IRON}: DVD did it without anyone else saying so[/quote] Mhmmm...Right. And Hoo acknowledges that your commentary reached his ears, thus influencing the decision to use RnR. I believe I just proved it. Again. [quote] the straw man really, is there where you try to spin an argument on technicality, it would help if i hadnt kept admitting how i felt, and when i felt it. i did say of course i flipped on Heggo, did i felt bad about it, yes, and tried to explain it was just my opinion, oh well, my feelings were proven true, no loss there.[/quote]And your opinion is one where you would rather be a coward than a good ally. I honestly dont see how that disproves my comments about you specifically if you yourself are admitting theyre your own feelings. But hey, keep on contradicting yourself. [quote]isn't this what you have been arguing about my cowardliness about?, ok the person saying that is you, you should set yourself straight.[/quote]No, Ive been using your own words and the confirmation of individuals besides van hoo of those words to establish your cowardice/deceit/etc. Just give it up, you've got your own words tied up around you at this point. All I need to do is go back, dig up those two lines of dialogue, quote them, and with the fact that everyone and their mother acknowledges they arent faked, then your entire argument goes up in smoke and you make your alliance look even worse. Dust yourself off, take your lumps, and just walk away. I'm trying to be nice out of respect to the subject at hand, so don't force my hand here. This is a cancellation which you tried your best to expedite, but ultimately had no impact on. I'm sorry your personal apprehension towards risk caused me to have a massive misconception of your alliance in general. So let it go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdcchn Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 (edited) see just when i am about to let it go, you pull more drival, [quote name='Chron' timestamp='1284447538' post='2453389'] Well, I just posted logs where my government asked your government about this, they acknowledged that the logs existed, and he did so without their permission. This way, the veracity of the logs in question isnt doubted, but are acknowledged as legitimate. The point is that the logs exist. They are acknowledged, and they are said to be his words alone. Once dvdcchn quits trying to spin himself as the great hero, sure. [/quote] soo... they are not giving you the logs either then eh? its my logs apparently, and i give permission. so how about you produce something then? [quote] I honestly didn't know that running your mouth was equivalent to war planning these days. And from an ex-government member, no less! [/quote] then why the cancel? thats what we are talking about right? its good for you to agree that we did not, or i did not act against NSO other than "running my mouth" [quote] I'm not even going to touch on the irony of this statement, considering your commentary. [/quote] its a good thing you are not touching it [quote] Mhmmm...Right. And Hoo acknowledges that your commentary reached his ears, thus influencing the decision to use RnR. I believe I just proved it. Again. And your opinion is one where you would rather be a coward than a good ally. [/quote] but it wasn't helping them war plan right? which is it? [quote] I honestly dont see how that disproves my comments about you specifically if you yourself are admitting theyre your own feelings. But hey, keep on contradicting yourself. [/quote] of course you would not kiddo [quote] No, Ive been using your own words and the confirmation of individuals besides van hoo of those words to establish your cowardice/deceit/etc. [/quote] more of these people who said stuff right? and you say i am using "words to spin things" [quote] Just give it up, you've got your own words tied up around you at this point. All I need to do is go back, dig up those two lines of dialogue, quote them, and with the fact that everyone and their mother acknowledges they arent faked, then your entire argument goes up in smoke and you make your alliance look even worse. [/quote] really? from where i see it i keep saying the same thing, i do not like you, i did flip on heggo after the accusations, and i am no longer gov, which is why i wasnt in that last convo you droped, oh wait, did you ask NotAdolfHitler if you could drop those logs? calling the kettle black indeed. [quote] Dust yourself off, take your lumps, and just walk away. I'm trying to be nice out of respect to the subject at hand, so don't force my hand here. This is a cancellation which you tried your best to expedite, but ultimately had no impact on. I'm sorry your personal apprehension towards risk caused me to have a massive misconception of your alliance in general. So let it go. [/quote] i am pretty content where i am at, be nice and respect the subject, the lies of your cancellation. its good to see i did my best to expedite and how really that i had no impact on the treaty. it is good to see the treaty stand, oh wait... anyhow, goodnight Edited September 14, 2010 by dvdcchn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Autumn Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 I fail to understand what the point of this ongoing argument is - the treaty is over, formal ties are broken and now both NSO and IRON look foolish for this disaster of a thread. Slinging mud is cool and all but, really, is the fuel for this anything further than boredom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto Che Guevara Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 What ever happened to the days of a simple, private treaty cancellation notice, with a single post on OWF announcing it? No, I don't want to hear why this is different because NSO is evil, or IRON is run by liars, or whatever you may be planning on replying to this with. Just shut up and move on with your lives. IRON and NSO are no longer treatied. Either go to war and get it over with, or shut up, but don't continue on this way. It's making everybody sick. Not really. But you are driving us all mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 I didn't read most of the thread, but reading these last few pages makes me glad I didn't. Give the argument a rest and leave room for friendship even if not connected by a treaty... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinux Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Chron' timestamp='1284432263' post='2453199'] Oh definitely, but we can't help but not know about something we didnt know about. As the head of Econ, he really should have informed the rest of his staff about that stuff, then there wouldnt have been any mix-ups, and there wouldnt have been anything said that shouldnt have been said. [/quote] – I did say something about it. Fact is I told a darklords about my departure from NSO. In my Pm to him, I expressed my thoughts regarding why and when I was leaving NSO. I even said I was willing to help out the guy who gone take up after me. At the time of my departure, No candidate was appointed as far as I know. To this time, no one have ever ask me any Q regarding why IRON is missing as doners. I also explained the same thing to LintWad with a small exception here; my pm was a bit longer to my former Emperor. Heggo was the only one I turn down to have a chat with, Had I know he was about to become the new Emperor.. Maybe my stand had been different knowing that info. At the time of his Request to me, He only addresses Why, When and for me that was already explained in length and I didn’t see any point chatting more about it. The econ staff has that information, the info are also stored in the HQ tread since I made and post the projects. 3rd, the info are also stored in the spreadsheet that are made for the tasks. I even post the links and added a darklord to all of them, since there was no new candidate appointed at that time. Lack of Communications is on NSO end, not IRON. [quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1284433409' post='2453215'] Fair enough just wanted people to know IRON was being a true ally to NSO as she has always been. Even when told some of us personally were unhappy with the signing IRON always replied with they are our ally and that is that. While im not sad to see this treaty dropped, I think the mud slinging is beneath most of those throwing the mud. Im sure there were problems on both ends but seeing IRON dragged through the mud I was just throwing some water to help them clean the bull !@#$ off that was in the puddle. [/quote] – I know what you are saying, as a ex member to IRON I know how high IRON hold that treaty, and what the members in IRON thinks about NSO. I’m not surprised at all to see that members in IRON sign up to send aid to NSO here, even when they are paying reps to C&G. I’m also sad to see the mud coming from members in NSO who are not in the knowing. As I have said before, If NSO wants to blame anyone, Blame me as your former Master of Proliferation for any errors that gone help you move on from this point. IRON is not your target regarding lack of will to help out here, they follow my orders to the letter and my only concern was the NSO members in group A coming out from aid round nr 3 that gone be in involved with IRON for round 4, that was set up for 14/9 to 16/9. Edited September 14, 2010 by Dinux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theophilos Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1284436668' post='2453268'] Your both still good alliances in my opinion, so its a shame to see this. Good luck to IRON and NSO. Edit: [img]http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s84/Lord_God_Jinnai/NSO-TOP-IRON.png[/img] Fun memories... [/quote] [img]http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz278/MoIA_album/Avatars_and_Signatures/sithironflag.png[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 I think canceling this treaty was a mistake btw and hope both alliances can work past any issues, then resign someday maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlkAK47_002 Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 [quote name='Theophilos' timestamp='1284458090' post='2453437'] [img]http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz278/MoIA_album/Avatars_and_Signatures/sithironflag.png[/img] [/quote] That looks awesome I really don't understand why this thread degenerated into NSO and IRON members going for eachothers throats. Just because you have a disagreement doesn't mean it has to end with a treaty cancellation followed by endless mud slinging. It would've been better for everyone if this issue was worked out behind closed doors via irc. I don't know whether it was Egos or pride or outright immaturity that lead to this but it's really disgusting to watch. I can't say I'm too fond of either of you after this horrendus display. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valtamdraugr Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 [quote name='BlkAK47_002' timestamp='1284485679' post='2453729'] (snip) I don't know whether it was Egos or pride or outright immaturity that lead to this but it's really disgusting to watch. I can't say I'm too fond of either of you after this horrendus display. [/quote] I am just going to echo this leader's statement and wish you all luck in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Buscemi Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 [quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1284330272' post='2451545'] Well, at least SF is branching. Gonna take that CnG? xD [/quote] Another epic NPO fail right here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCRABT Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 Extremely sad to see this thread, this cancellation and the mud slinging therein. Good luck NSO I have always liked you and wish you well for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlkAK47_002 Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 [quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1284493393' post='2453834'] Another epic NPO fail right here. [/quote] Wow you really have had sour grapes about us in your posts lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrash Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 [quote name='BlkAK47_002' timestamp='1284510277' post='2454109'] Wow you really have had sour grapes about us in your posts lately. [/quote] Lately? He's been doing it forever. Hi Steve! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordtyrion Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 [quote name='Thrash' timestamp='1284514157' post='2454196'] Lately? He's been doing it forever. Hi Steve! [/quote] I can chime in with "sour grape" comments. And I will speak of my 3 years in the NPO that ended very recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulmar Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1284453688' post='2453418'] What ever happened to the days of a simple, private treaty cancellation notice, with a single post on OWF announcing it? No, I don't want to hear why this is different because NSO is evil, or IRON is run by liars, or whatever you may be planning on replying to this with. Just shut up and move on with your lives. IRON and NSO are no longer treatied. Either go to war and get it over with, or shut up, but don't continue on this way. It's making everybody sick. Not really. But you are driving us all mad. [/quote] I just find this funny because everyone is always like, "we want more drama on the OWF, not in the back channels!" and then when it happens people start talking about how they don't care about it and how boring it is. And with that, I lay this thread to rest. Edited September 15, 2010 by Sulmar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Caspian Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 Oh I do love seeing NSO's dirty knickers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto Che Guevara Posted September 15, 2010 Report Share Posted September 15, 2010 [quote name='Sulmar' timestamp='1284524693' post='2454440'] I just find this funny because everyone is always like, "we want more drama on the OWF, not in the back channels!" and then when it happens people start talking about how they don't care about it and how boring it is. And with that, I lay this thread to rest. [/quote] Yes, everybody wants more drama. There is not a single person on the entire forum that wants this sort of crap to go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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