Ramirus: Scourge of the Grämlins

[ccabal86]

[quote name='wenwillthisend' date='13 July 2010 - 12:45 PM' timestamp='1279017904' post='2369203']
But in Ram's mind he is winning, he is keeping the evil IRON at war. It would not surprise me if he keeps them at war that long that the alliances IRON surrendered to crack it and demand that IRON pay reps or face another war. Ram would do something like that
[/quote]

We're about to send out our first batch of reps, so he doesn't gain anything there either...

[Broncos98]

[quote name='Crymson' date='10 July 2010 - 10:08 PM' timestamp='1278817689' post='2366521']
I really question if anyone would care were IRON/DAWN to demand reparations.
[/quote]

There really won't be anyone left to demand reps from, so it's a moot point at this stage of the war.

[Dom Zak]

Ram just accept the offer of white peace (which is still on the table) and just leave. Save what you have left of a once respectable alliance.

[ccabal86]

Yes, well, being reasonable is not his forte it seems.

[Crymson]

[quote name='wenwillthisend' date='13 July 2010 - 04:45 AM' timestamp='1279017904' post='2369203']
But in Ram's mind he is winning, he is keeping the evil IRON at war. It would not surprise me if he keeps them at war that long that the alliances IRON surrendered to crack it and demand that IRON pay reps or face another war. Ram would do something like that
[/quote]

There's no doubt in my mind that he'll come up with a delusion along those lines---or something close---as any admission that he failed on any level is impossible for him. He'll twist the situation around in his head to make himself feel as if he succeeded.

[HellAngel]

Here is the logic: A nation cant get killed, therefor you cant lose. If you dont lose, you're winning, right?

[heggo]

Ram, do you still wish you could amend IRON's old terms to decry my alliance?

[Matt Miller]

[quote name='heggo' date='15 July 2010 - 05:25 PM' timestamp='1279229120' post='2373512']
Ram, do you still wish you could amend IRON's old terms to decry my alliance?
[/quote]

I'm not sure what the best part of that amendment nonsense was, the fact that NSO was listed on it or the fact that "pretty much everyone" actually meant "mostly nobody". I'm sure both of those were the responsibility of someone other than Ram; what an utter joke.

[amad123]

[quote name='Matt Miller' date='15 July 2010 - 08:18 PM' timestamp='1279239476' post='2373806']
I'm not sure what the best part of that amendment nonsense was, [/quote]
The best part of the amendment nonsense is that Gramlins has opened the door to amend any and all previous agreements after the fact. MHA could now go back and amend the Harmlins Accords or whatever it is they hold with Gramlins and add in a termination clause. IRON and DAWN could go back to their war declaration and amend it to declare everlasting peace with CnG instead of war. Just think of the possibilities of being able to amend old documents to suit the current times. Ramius's genius sometimes is overlooked.


.

[flak attack]

[quote name='amad123' date='16 July 2010 - 08:13 AM' timestamp='1279282406' post='2374365']
The best part of the amendment nonsense is that Gramlins has opened the door to amend any and all previous agreements after the fact. MHA could now go back and amend the Harmlins Accords or whatever it is they hold with Gramlins and add in a termination clause. IRON and DAWN could go back to their war declaration and amend it to declare everlasting peace with CnG instead of war. Just think of the possibilities of being able to amend old documents to suit the current times. Ramius's genius sometimes is overlooked.


.
[/quote]
That's quite the slippery slope you're on that. I hope you have crampons.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='flak attack' date='16 July 2010 - 08:55 AM' timestamp='1279284928' post='2374379']
That's quite the slippery slope you're on that. I hope you have crampons.
[/quote]
You know, I think he might be using parody.

[Williambonney]

[quote name='flak attack' date='16 July 2010 - 08:55 AM' timestamp='1279284928' post='2374379']
That's quite the slippery slope you're on that. I hope you have crampons.
[/quote]
[img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gnm2C1B8vbI/S_5hBeiFbxI/AAAAAAAAEsM/_Kv6sCS6XKs/s1600/sarcasm.jpg[/img]

Seriously how many more pages of this nonsensical semantic war do we really have to endure?

[shilo]

The two poster above made a good point regarding amad's post and the post made in response.

[Dom Zak]

Ok, for the love of all admin.

Gramlins, ACCEPT THE WHITE PEACE!

It means you go off free! Take it!

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Dom Zak' date='16 July 2010 - 11:14 AM' timestamp='1279293229' post='2374495']
Ok, for the love of all admin.

Gramlins, ACCEPT THE WHITE PEACE!

It means you go off free! Take it!
[/quote]

Evacuate? In Gramlins' moment of triumph? I think you overestimate IRON's chances.*


[size="2"]* - The moisture at your feet is the result of the dripping sarcasm of that statement...oh and Gramlins is down now to 17 nations, fyi.[/size]

[Crymson]

I think the Ramlins deserve to be punished for what they've done.

Edited July 16, 2010 by Crymson

[Believland]

You also thought CnG should be punished and look how well that worked out

[Crymson]

[quote name='Believland' date='16 July 2010 - 03:46 PM' timestamp='1279316764' post='2375020']
You also thought CnG should be punished and look how well that worked out
[/quote]

I'm so much better than you are. Get me a sugar cookie.

[Bilrow]

[quote name='Dom Zak' date='16 July 2010 - 10:14 AM' timestamp='1279293229' post='2374495']
Ok, for the love of all admin.

Gramlins, ACCEPT THE WHITE PEACE!

It means you go off free! Take it!
[/quote]
I hope they don't accept, so gRAMlins will finally be eradicated off of Planet Bob for the scourge they have always been and are.

[zzzptm]

[quote name='Bilrow' date='16 July 2010 - 07:20 PM' timestamp='1279326009' post='2375237']
I hope they don't accept, so gRAMlins will finally be eradicated off of Planet Bob for the scourge they have always been and are.
[/quote]

Check their member list. Admin is set to smite another of their nations tomorrow, with several more to be smitten in the coming days.

It's really a sad, whimpery end to an alliance that once commanded a great deal of respect.

[shilo]

Whimpery? Yeah. Sad? No. Not when they had and continue to have the chance to stop this. But when pride combined with delusions leads to the destruction of an alliance, it's not sad, it's well deserved.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='shilo' date='16 July 2010 - 09:38 PM' timestamp='1279330671' post='2375317']
Whimpery? Yeah. Sad? No. Not when they had and continue to have the chance to stop this. But when pride combined with delusions leads to the destruction of an alliance, it's not sad, it's well deserved.
[/quote]
I think it's sad that so many people preferred to just leave and give up on a great alliance rather than stay and fix it.

[Baldr]

I'm amused at how Ramirus's destruction of Gramlins is being blamed on people who said "I'm not putting up with this nonsense" and moved on.

[HellAngel]

[quote name='Schattenmann' date='18 July 2010 - 07:29 AM' timestamp='1279430926' post='2376696']
I think it's sad that so many people preferred to just leave and give up on a great alliance rather than stay and fix it.
[/quote]

Thats a pretty interesting topic actually, much more interesting than what is currently being served to us in both these discussions here...

From my perspective, people just so much wanted Ram to rise into leadership ranks that they just did it instead of realizing the wider consequences of such actions. There were enough people willing to fight that movement, but eventually they all gave up because they were too annoyed with everyone mindlessly following Rams agenda, just because it was "against the system".

Rebells do have a way of getting into peoples heads because they romantically delure themselves into thinking their cause is worth fighting for instead of questioning their actual ability of leadership.

edit: Oh yeah, fun fact: Most of the people that willingly put Ram into leadership positions were the first ones to leave the alliance when things started going downhill. Ask Karma Hero LM, for example.

Edited July 18, 2010 by HellAngel

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Baldr' date='18 July 2010 - 03:40 AM' timestamp='1279438808' post='2376877']
I'm amused at how Ramirus's destruction of Gramlins is being blamed on people who said "I'm not putting up with this nonsense" and moved on.
[/quote]
Unlike someone in, say, my own alliance CoJ which is not democratic, former Gremlins had avenues to change things if they didn't like them. It's perfectly fine if they didn't like what was going on and decided to leave, but when you turn in your membership card, in my opinion, you turn in your right to whinge about the alliance's current state or the path it took. At this point participation in Gre votes is so low that any of the sitting three executives could be turned out with ease, and in fact if former members still yearn for their old home they should join again and do just that.

The bottom line is that--in your words--"saying I'm not putting up with this, and moving on" is giving up in a democratic system.

[quote name='HellAngel' date='18 July 2010 - 08:52 AM' timestamp='1279457549' post='2377156']
Thats a pretty interesting topic actually, much more interesting than what is currently being served to us in both these discussions here...

From my perspective, people just so much wanted Ram to rise into leadership ranks that they just did it instead of realizing the wider consequences of such actions. There were enough people willing to fight that movement, but eventually they all gave up because they were too annoyed with everyone mindlessly following Rams agenda, just because it was "against the system".

Rebells do have a way of getting into peoples heads because they romantically delure themselves into thinking their cause is worth fighting for instead of questioning their actual ability of leadership.

edit: Oh yeah, fun fact: Most of the people that willingly put Ram into leadership positions were the first ones to leave the alliance when things started going downhill. Ask Karma Hero LM, for example.
[/quote]
I'm certain it was very complicated and contentious, I've been in my fair share of alliances at their crucibles. Those people that made a mess then left are pretty lame.