Ramirus: Scourge of the Grämlins

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Schattenmann' date='18 July 2010 - 02:36 PM' timestamp='1279478189' post='2377463']
Unlike someone in, say, my own alliance CoJ which is not democratic, former Gremlins had avenues to change things if they didn't like them. It's perfectly fine if they didn't like what was going on and decided to leave, but when you turn in your membership card, in my opinion, you turn in your right to whinge about the alliance's current state or the path it took. At this point participation in Gre votes is so low that any of the sitting three executives could be turned out with ease, and in fact if former members still yearn for their old home they should join again and do just that.

The bottom line is that--in your words--"saying I'm not putting up with this, and moving on" is giving up in a democratic system.
[/quote]

I would disagree to some extent, "voting with your feet" is the ultimate exercise of democracy in CN, even in the most autocratic alliances one may simply resign membership if it seems like a lost cause. Some things just aren't worth the effort of trying to recover, at that point nations and rulers may simply decide to move on.

[HellAngel]

[quote name='Schattenmann' date='18 July 2010 - 08:36 PM' timestamp='1279478189' post='2377463']
Unlike someone in, say, my own alliance CoJ which is not democratic, former Gremlins had avenues to change things if they didn't like them. It's perfectly fine if they didn't like what was going on and decided to leave, but when you turn in your membership card, in my opinion, you turn in your right to whinge about the alliance's current state or the path it took. At this point participation in Gre votes is so low that any of the sitting three executives could be turned out with ease, and in fact if former members still yearn for their old home they should join again and do just that.

The bottom line is that--in your words--"saying I'm not putting up with this, and moving on" is giving up in a democratic system.
[/quote]

Never quite got why people see it that way. There are so many ignorants talking out of their @#$% about things they have not the slightest clue about... somebody who left an alliance and gives some insight into what actually happened or his opinion of current actions has more foundation than most of the posts made...

[quote]
I'm certain it was very complicated and contentious, I've been in my fair share of alliances at their crucibles. Those people that made a mess then left are pretty lame.
[/quote]

Indeed. In this case there just werent enough oldschoolers around to pick up the crown and dust it off, so people gave up. I did my duty by proposing disbandment when nothing else seemed to work, but the vote was turned down 40% to 60%. And now everyone had to watch the slow and painful death of a once great alliance.

[Bob Janova]

In Schattenmann's crazy universe if you have any say, even if you are outvoted, you have no right to complain about the result. I'm not sure logic can get through into that world. The fact is that several of us fought against what was happening for several months, and not being able to tilt at windmills indefinitely doesn't mean we don't have a right to comment about what the windmills have done.

[quote]At this point participation in Gre votes is so low that any of the sitting three executives could be turned out with ease, and in fact if former members still yearn for their old home they should join again and do just that.[/quote]
Our old home does not exist any more. Plus I'm sure that in a bitter piece of irony the Ram-stooge Archons would either veto entrance or veto promotion and make sure that they couldn't be voted out so easily.

[Ramirus Maximus]

[quote name='HellAngel' date='18 July 2010 - 04:52 AM' timestamp='1279457549' post='2377156']edit: Oh yeah, fun fact: Most of the people that willingly put Ram into leadership positions were the first ones to leave the alliance when things started going downhill. Ask Karma Hero LM, for example.[/quote]
LM left way before I was promoted. He left because you -wouldn't- promote me, remember?


[quote name='Bob Janova' date='19 July 2010 - 04:54 AM' timestamp='1279544039' post='2378768']Our old home does not exist any more. Plus I'm sure that in a bitter piece of irony the Ram-stooge Archons would either veto entrance or veto promotion and make sure that they couldn't be voted out so easily.[/quote]
I'd veto Boondock, probably.

[HellAngel]

[quote name='Ramirus Maximus' date='21 July 2010 - 09:36 AM' timestamp='1279697748' post='2382264']
LM left way before I was promoted. He left because you -wouldn't- promote me, remember?
[/quote]

I wasnt talking about the promotion. He put you into a positions so you can delure people into thinking you're doing all the work, therefor you deserve an archon spot.
No matter how much work anyone does, you do not put lunatics into powerful positions.


edit: for the record, it wasnt only him promoting you, i just used him as an example

Edited July 21, 2010 by HellAngel

[crazy canuck]

[quote name='shilo' date='16 July 2010 - 06:38 PM' timestamp='1279330671' post='2375317']
Whimpery? Yeah. Sad? No. Not when they had and continue to have the chance to stop this. But when pride combined with delusions leads to the destruction of an alliance, it's not sad, it's well deserved.
[/quote]

Sad when you consider what the old Gramlins were. I agree that it is not sad at all if you only consider what they became.

Edited July 21, 2010 by crazy canuck

[shilo]

[quote name='crazy canuck' date='21 July 2010 - 11:16 PM' timestamp='1279746970' post='2383261']
Sad when you consider what the old Gramlins was. I agree that it is not sad at all if you only consider what they became.
[/quote]
Sorry, I too wish they were the old ones, but I am at war with the new version for many months now, so forgive me if they do shape my view on the alliance more than they should do.

[crazy canuck]

[quote name='shilo' date='21 July 2010 - 02:19 PM' timestamp='1279747179' post='2383271']
Sorry, I too wish they were the old ones, but I am at war with the new version for many months now, so forgive me if they do shape my view on the alliance more than they should do.
[/quote]

Oh, I dont blame you at all. The old Gramlins are but a pleasant memory. An alliance which is truly dead and gone.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='crazy canuck' date='21 July 2010 - 09:45 PM' timestamp='1279763111' post='2383776']
Oh, I dont blame you at all. The old Gramlins are but a pleasant memory. An alliance which is truly dead and gone.
[/quote]

Lucky for us the new ones seem intent on doing their best to hasten their end as well.

[iamthey]

Extremely late, I don't check this area of the forums too often. That being said. While I am highly amused, I find something about the questions from the second portion of this interview very familiar.

[IMG]http://imgur.com/WCrNH.png[/IMG]

[IMG]http://imgur.com/Rxezs.png[/IMG]


Nevertheless, I am flattered that you would go through this exercise to send a message to me Ramirus.

Edited July 30, 2010 by iamthey

[Ramirus Maximus]

[quote name='iamthey' timestamp='1280469193' post='2394821']Nevertheless, I am flattered that you would go through this exercise to send a message to me Ramirus. [/quote]


I thought it was funny too, haha.

[Stetson76]

[quote name='Ramirus Maximus' timestamp='1280483286' post='2394901']
I thought it was funny too, haha.
[/quote]

So, did you let Schattenmann in on the fact that you were stealing someone else's questions? Man, in all of this, I thought the mud being slung your way was hyperbole used for political effect, but it turns out you really are that small.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Stetson' timestamp='1280649318' post='2396906']
So, did you let Schattenmann in on the fact that you were stealing someone else's questions? Man, in all of this, I thought the mud being slung your way was hyperbole used for political effect, but it turns out you really are that small.
[/quote]
It wasnt as funny as Shattenmann trying to present them to the world as his own questions.

[caligula]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1280650372' post='2396910']
It wasnt as funny as Shattenmann trying to present them to the world as his own questions.
[/quote]
I had been so confused as to why this failed epicly and now I know.

I should have never doubted you,

Schat

[Alterego]

Its traditional for nations to rebuild after a war. It usually involves staying at ZI if already there for about 3 weeks followed by an infra jump and tax collection. Its common in a war to rebuy to 1000 infra and rebuy nukes. Rebuilding after a war rarely takes the form of jumping to the minimum required to activate your Manhattan Project and stockpiling on nuclear weapons.

Yesterday Ramirus jumped to 1000 infra and bought 2 nuclear weapons. Today he bought two more. In conjunction with the comment below he appears to be ignoring this peace agreement just like he ignored the last peace agreement and planning to carry on regardless.

[quote name='Ramirus Maximus' timestamp='1280865962' post='2399837']
You can rest assured, I had nothing to do with the so-called "white peace", and did not authorize my signature being used by Peron.
[/quote]

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1280942341' post='2400813']
Its traditional for nations to rebuild after a war. It usually involves staying at ZI if already there for about 3 weeks followed by an infra jump and tax collection. Its common in a war to rebuy to 1000 infra and rebuy nukes. Rebuilding after a war rarely takes the form of jumping to the minimum required to activate your Manhattan Project and stockpiling on nuclear weapons.

Yesterday Ramirus jumped to 1000 infra and bought 2 nuclear weapons. Today he bought two more. In conjunction with the comment below he appears to be ignoring this peace agreement just like he ignored the last peace agreement and planning to carry on regardless.
[/quote]


Your post doesn't make sense.

It is to our advantage to all buy to 1k infra and begin rebuying nukes immediately. The savings in cash for a BC is not enough to outweigh the risk of having no nuclear weapons.
I rebuilt to 1k infra and began buying nukes yesterday. I also collected taxes to prepare for my BC. I will be purchasing 2 nukes each day until I reach capacity.
I suspect that Ramirus will do the exact same thing.
The difference between bills at ZI versus the bills at 1k infra w/ 25 nukes is insignificant when compared to the costs of waiting to rebuy nuclear weapons while at ZI.

You're trying way too hard for a jab here, Alterego.

[Charles the Great]

I call BS when you include the quote from ram.

guess he will just be branded a rogue when he attacks. altho why he would attack now after turtling before is beyond me.
thank you,
CtG

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Charles the Great' timestamp='1280944941' post='2400843']
I call BS when you include the quote from ram.

guess he will just be branded a rogue when he attacks. altho why he would attack now after turtling before is beyond me.
thank you,
CtG
[/quote]

So what if he didn't vote for the white peace?
So what if Peron used his signature without authorization?

Those things don't imply that he intends to keep attacking.
I don't support the white peace either; I wouldn't have voted for it had I the authority. That doesn't mean I am going to violate the government decision and continue the war.

[Matt Miller]

[quote name='Matthew PK' timestamp='1280950740' post='2400917']
So what if he didn't vote for the white peace?
So what if Peron used his signature without authorization?

Those things don't imply that he intends to keep attacking.
I don't support the white peace either; I wouldn't have voted for it had I the authority. That doesn't mean I am going to violate the government decision and continue the war.
[/quote]

You mention Peron using his signature in this thread as well it seems. The fact is, he was overruled and you should probably take up his signature being used with Ertyy and Mad Mike rather than try to play it off like Peron did something wrong. You need to look inside your house on this one.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Matt Miller' timestamp='1280954338' post='2400962']
You mention Peron using his signature in this thread as well it seems. The fact is, he was overruled and you should probably take up his signature being used with Ertyy and Mad Mike rather than try to play it off like Peron did something wrong. You need to look inside your house on this one.
[/quote]

That's really beside the point. The signature issue is between Ram and Peron.
The signature and support for the peace are irrelevant from the validity of buying nukes back ASAP.

[Bob Janova]

It's traditional for all the government signatures to be included on treaties, even if not all of them voted for it – it's not really an issue at all, I would say. I know my name was on a few Grämlins treaties that I didn't vote for.

[Matt Miller]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1280958980' post='2401019']
It's traditional for all the government signatures to be included on treaties, even if not all of them voted for it – it's not really an issue at all, I would say. I know my name was on a few Grämlins treaties that I didn't vote for.
[/quote]

As has mine in the past as well. I suppose Gramlins have become an alliance where you don't stand together, it's more about personal beliefs and airing your dirty laundry by making it known you didn't vote with your fellow government members. IRON Council does not discuss who voted for what outside of Council since we believe it's not about us as individuals; rather it's about our alliance as a whole. This business about Ram's signature being an issue between Peron and Ram is garbage. I think it is that Ramirus wants it to be known that his ego has been harmed and his good name has been soiled. I wonder what bothers him more, white peace being accepted or the fact that the signatures of 3 guys from a "paperless" alliance just appeared on a piece of e-paper. One thing is for sure, Ramirus thinks about himself first and foremost and that's what makes him a terrible alliance leader.

Edit: Spelling

Edited August 5, 2010 by Matt Miller

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1280958980' post='2401019']
It's traditional for all the government signatures to be included on treaties, even if not all of them voted for it – it's not really an issue at all, I would say. I know my name was on a few Grämlins treaties that I didn't vote for.
[/quote]
This has always struck me as an odd practice.

My signature only appears on treaties that I supported.

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1280989021' post='2401475']
This has always struck me as an odd practice.

My signature only appears on treaties that I supported.
[/quote]

Me, too.

If someone put my signature on something I felt rather 'meh' regarding, I'd be livid.

[hilowe]

[quote name='Matthew PK' timestamp='1280950740' post='2400917']
So what if Peron used his signature without authorization?
[/quote]


[quote name='Matt Miller' timestamp='1280954338' post='2400962']
You mention Peron using his signature in this thread as well it seems. The fact is, he was overruled and you should probably take up his signature being used with Ertyy and Mad Mike rather than try to play it off like Peron did something wrong. You need to look inside your house on this one.
[/quote]


[quote name='Matthew PK' timestamp='1280958381' post='2401015']
That's really beside the point. The signature issue is between Ram and Peron.[/quote]

umm, actually, since you started saying Peron used Ram's sig with out Ram's consent, it is relevant.

And, Ram is 1 of 3 members of your gov. It's pretty common for [b]all[/b] of a gov's signatures to be added to a document like this, [b]even if not all voted for it[/b]. Like Matt said, this is an internal Gre issue. Peron did nothing wrong using Ram's signature.

Edit: Maybe not as common as I thought, based on the 2 comments above mine. In which case, it needed to be very clearly told to Peron that Ram's signature was not to be added.

Edited August 5, 2010 by hilowe