Reformation of TBBAF and DoW

[Starfox101]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='10 May 2010 - 02:28 PM' timestamp='1273498074' post='2293517']
For what it's worth, I was caught off surprise. I figured that an alliance that raised such a big stink about being taken seriously regarding their desire to suspend raiding indefinitely and going in a different direction in terms of FA so recently would have more common sense than this.
[/quote]
It was noted as being temporary, and we raided nobody during that time. It was taken seriously.

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='10 May 2010 - 02:28 PM' timestamp='1273498074' post='2293517']
The smart move would have been to let TBB make his point and end his rampage in a war cycle or two, jeering him from the sidelines if you must. This move isn't that.
[/quote]
How boring.

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='10 May 2010 - 02:28 PM' timestamp='1273498074' post='2293517']
If you can't see that Gramlins is a special case not only because of the world situation but because they are so top heavy in NS, then you'll probably also not recognize that had NpO not been distracted from its task \m/ would have been in serious jeopardy. Regardless, you survived the onslaught because the war objectives didn't call for your destruction and there wasn't the political will to make it happen. You guys did fight well, but don't delude yourselves into think that you've evolved into some sort of killing machine.
[/quote]
Their war objectives didn't predict that Poison Clan would be so destructive, \m/ would stand tall, and that FOK and Co. would enter. They basically botched the entire thing really.

[quote name='Kzoppistan' date='10 May 2010 - 02:33 PM' timestamp='1273498408' post='2293522']
There's nothing to debate.

What you are screams so loud your words are lost in the howl. Opportunistic beasts that attack only when they seek gain. You saw a juice morsel and slobbering with anticipation and seeing no danger you attacked it. It's all you've ever done and it's all you'll ever do.


Run along now, little fox.
[/quote]
What are you even talking about? You don't even know me.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Caliph' date='09 May 2010 - 04:02 PM' timestamp='1273435319' post='2292707']
2: We have made it clear where we stand. We dislike rogues, and we like tech raiding.
[/quote]
No, you don't.

[quote name='Caliph' date='05 January 2010 - 05:41 AM' timestamp='1262684473' post='2087401']
You know, I liked you guys the first time around.

Best of luck with it this time around Smurfs.

Show em whats what Smurfs
[/quote]
Hey look, it's exactly the same poster posting in support of a rogue thread.

Hypocrisy much?

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Thomas Jackson' date='09 May 2010 - 10:19 PM' timestamp='1273457925' post='2293061']
Wait. Let me get this straight. Having an IRC channel, a DoE and a DoW automatically clears you of any rogue actions and makes you a sovereign alliance? You may view yourself as an alliance, but the charter I abide by does not. I do not follow your rules. Prepare to be destroyed.
[/quote]
It worked fine for Shakes when you guys supported him.

[Starfox101]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='10 May 2010 - 02:41 PM' timestamp='1273498882' post='2293526']
It worked fine for Shakes when you guys supported him.
[/quote]
Out of curiosity, who are you claiming \m/ supported?

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Starfox101' date='10 May 2010 - 09:45 AM' timestamp='1273499107' post='2293527']
Out of curiosity, who are you claiming \m/ supported?
[/quote]
Starfox, I quoted from the other rogue's thread.

[Starfox101]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='10 May 2010 - 02:49 PM' timestamp='1273499329' post='2293530']
Starfox, I quoted from the other rogue's thread.
[/quote]
Never even heard of them. I think that's a bit of broad term to throw, that "you guys" supported him.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Starfox101' date='10 May 2010 - 09:54 AM' timestamp='1273499658' post='2293537']
Never even heard of them. I think that's a bit of broad term to throw, that "you guys" supported him.
[/quote]
Caliph is \m/ government isn't he?

[Starfox101]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='10 May 2010 - 02:56 PM' timestamp='1273499794' post='2293540']
Caliph is \m/ government isn't he?
[/quote]
Obviously. However, he was MK at the time, for one.

Secondly, did any other \m/ members state anything in regards to it?

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Starfox101' date='10 May 2010 - 09:58 AM' timestamp='1273499886' post='2293542']
Obviously. However, he was MK at the time, for one.

Secondly, did any other \m/ members state anything in regards to it?
[/quote]
Why yes, good sir.
[quote name='Emperor Marx' date='06 January 2010 - 12:44 AM' timestamp='1262753060' post='2088914']
I remember you. Good luck in your campaign against Invicta.
[/quote]
[quote name='Earogema' date='06 January 2010 - 07:01 PM' timestamp='1262818890' post='2090593']
Did you do this before? I remember this very vaguely, but if you did, then I liked you then, and I like it now.
[/quote]

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='10 May 2010 - 07:51 AM' timestamp='1273492278' post='2293467']
Well I have to say this has been going even better then I planned. Gramlins has had only one ally come to its defense and thats \m/. Gramlins contunues to demand unconditional surrender, continues to fall apart and the forces against them have regained the momentum they were in danger of losing. \m/ has also more than played the role I assigned to them. Its not often you get to kill two birds with one stone and one tiny little nation. Sadly one alliance proved a little to smart to take the bait. GOONS I am sorry I did not give you enough credit I was warned you might be to smart for this. Oh well I suppose 3 birds is to much to ask for.

So yes if you were wondering why my one man alliance was formed instead of just joining IRON it was because certain people wanted to have some big ammo to use on others down the road. This proved to be the best bet. Get at Grams and a lure in the dummies. Thats why I did not start off with a protectorate and thats why I did not allow anyone else to join, sorry guys. And now we have all seen \m/ for what they are. Bullies who cried for a year about how they were treated and yet when given the slightest power they delcare they decide what makes and alliance and declare war in support of the thing everyone on Planet Bob is against, Unconditional Surrender. They have doomed themselves through there own words and actions just as Gramlins have. By now they know they have been played, they know they are doomed and you can expect their actions to be one of small child acting out for time they have left. And next time their very words and actions will be trotted out everytime they cry about how unfair it all is.

Gramlins and \m/ you stand side by side at war for your common cause, stupidity. \m/ and Gramlins you have just been served. Thank you for your cooperation.
[/quote]

We're just Gramlins, huh? Well let's throw up the sigs and polls then. Make it a party. I need something to do waiting for these phantom consequences for attacking you.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Starfox101' date='10 May 2010 - 06:21 AM' timestamp='1273490487' post='2293463']
wat

Are you saying I should not have nuked him?

My MP cost 100 million dollars. I will use it.
[/quote]

SF- you basically act like RV, Walford, AUT, and Penkala all in one. A self-styled martyr and self-proclaimed hero as well as a loud-mouthed braggart with little else to really back yourself up.

the fact that you had to come in here and post that you nuked TBB shows the last part quite well.

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='10 May 2010 - 08:28 AM' timestamp='1273498074' post='2293517']
For what it's worth, I was caught off surprise. I figured that an alliance that raised such a big stink about being taken seriously regarding their desire to suspend raiding indefinitely and going in a different direction in terms of FA so recently would have more common sense than this.[/quote]

wait, you actually believed that. from the moment it was posted i knew it was nothing more than a smokescreen. it had no substance behind it other than as a quick political move.

that should be believed as much as \m/ actually has any kind of real regulations on how they raid. we have seen how high those regulations are actually regarded.

[quote name='Starfox101' date='10 May 2010 - 08:37 AM' timestamp='1273498618' post='2293524']
Their war objectives didn't predict that Poison Clan would be so destructive, \m/ would stand tall, and that FOK and Co. would enter. They basically botched the entire thing really.
[/quote]

really? considering Polaris lost how much NS during the \m/ portion of the war? \m/ stood tall only because of the stupidity of TIFDTT. if not for that utter failure of a move, i doubt \m/ would be talkin like this at all. the fact that you honestly think \m/ did such a great job in that war that you came out of it as you did shows either ignorance towards the pre-emptive attack or simply sheer stupidity. \m/ should in all honesty, praise TIFDTT and thank them greatly for saving \m/'s worthless hide.

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' date='10 May 2010 - 09:02 AM' timestamp='1273500114' post='2293545']
We're just Gramlins, huh? Well let's throw up the sigs and polls then. Make it a party. I need something to do waiting for these phantom consequences for attacking you.
[/quote]

you guys really do think only in the short-term don't you? remember how long \m/ survived before the UjW.

[Gerald Meanĕ]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='10 May 2010 - 03:15 PM' timestamp='1273500898' post='2293551']
that should be believed as much as \m/ actually has any kind of real regulations on how they raid. we have seen how high those regulations are actually regarded.[/quote]

We really don't have too many regulations on how we raid, because it's more fun that way. Should any individual member get smacked around due to that such is life, and we deal with it as such.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Gerald Meane' date='10 May 2010 - 09:32 AM' timestamp='1273501926' post='2293564']
We really don't have too many regulations on how we raid, because it's more fun that way. Should any individual member get smacked around due to that such is life, and we deal with it as such.
[/quote]

ahhh... i thought ya'll had the same regulations as the original \m/. sorry for my mistake in that belief. at least this time around ya'll can't make the same claims as the original version.

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='10 May 2010 - 10:15 AM' timestamp='1273500898' post='2293551']
really? considering Polaris lost how much NS during the \m/ portion of the war? \m/ stood tall only because of the stupidity of TIFDTT. if not for that utter failure of a move, i doubt \m/ would be talkin like this at all. the fact that you honestly think \m/ did such a great job in that war that you came out of it as you did shows either ignorance towards the pre-emptive attack or simply sheer stupidity. \m/ should in all honesty, praise TIFDTT and thank them greatly for saving \m/'s worthless hide.
[/quote]

TIDTT only made the peace process simple and fast. If that didn't happen, Grub and I were going to start it that night anyway. Even without TIDTT, Grub had gotten himself into a fine quagmire because he underestimated our willingness to fight and then did not know where to stop. I thank TIDTT for sparing me a few nights of tedious negotiations between me, Grub and a frustrated MT. The white peace would have happened anyway.

[Gerald Meanĕ]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='10 May 2010 - 03:37 PM' timestamp='1273502212' post='2293569']
ahhh... i thought ya'll had the same regulations as the original \m/. sorry for my mistake in that belief. at least this time around ya'll can't make the same claims as the original version.
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure we didn't have many regulations in there either.

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='Gerald Meane' date='10 May 2010 - 10:42 AM' timestamp='1273502558' post='2293573']
I'm pretty sure we didn't have many regulations in there either.
[/quote]

Limit of one, 5 and over is an alliance, no raiding during war or alert and don't expect any help if I remember correctly.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='Gerald Meane' date='10 May 2010 - 10:32 AM' timestamp='1273501926' post='2293564']
We really don't have too many regulations on how we raid, because it's more fun that way. Should any individual member get smacked around due to that such is life, and we deal with it as such.
[/quote]
Yeah, in theory. In reality, should the defender retaliate or have any chance of causing harm, he will likely get jumped not by one but by three raiders.

Hyenas don't hunt alone.

Good luck TBB.

[Gerald Meanĕ]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' date='10 May 2010 - 04:19 PM' timestamp='1273504754' post='2293601']
Yeah, in theory. In reality, should the defender retaliate or have any chance of causing harm, he will likely get jumped not by one but by three raiders.

Hyenas don't hunt alone.

Good luck TBB.
[/quote]

Not really. Look at my recent war with methrage. I was eating wrc nukes, but didn't call in any help from \m/ as I knew that was the price I paid for my raid.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='Gerald Meane' date='10 May 2010 - 11:25 AM' timestamp='1273505106' post='2293602']
Not really. Look at my recent war with methrage. I was eating wrc nukes, but didn't call in any help from \m/ as I knew that was the price I paid for my raid.
[/quote]
And Methrage had how many opponents? Think it proves my point.

[Caliph]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' date='10 May 2010 - 08:19 AM' timestamp='1273504754' post='2293601']
Yeah, in theory. In reality, should the defender retaliate or have any chance of causing harm, he will likely get jumped not by one but by three raiders.

Hyenas don't hunt alone.

Good luck TBB.
[/quote]
Most targets also don't make it that much easier by declaring 3 offensive wars. TBB overextended himself, and as an unaligned nation he will be raided until we don't feel like it anymore.

[Caliph]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='10 May 2010 - 07:15 AM' timestamp='1273500898' post='2293551']
wait, you actually believed that. from the moment it was posted i knew it was nothing more than a smokescreen. it had no substance behind it other than as a quick political move.
[/quote]
We actually abided by it and our tech raid suspension was taken seriously. It was always a temporary thing, and it was never stated to be permanent.

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='10 May 2010 - 07:15 AM' timestamp='1273500898' post='2293551']
that should be believed as much as \m/ actually has any kind of real regulations on how they raid. we have seen how high those regulations are actually regarded.
[/quote]
So you are here to tell us how to interpret our own charter?

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='10 May 2010 - 07:15 AM' timestamp='1273500898' post='2293551']
really? considering Polaris lost how much NS during the \m/ portion of the war? \m/ stood tall only because of the stupidity of TIFDTT. if not for that utter failure of a move, i doubt \m/ would be talkin like this at all. the fact that you honestly think \m/ did such a great job in that war that you came out of it as you did shows either ignorance towards the pre-emptive attack or simply sheer stupidity. \m/ should in all honesty, praise TIFDTT and thank them greatly for saving \m/'s worthless hide.
[/quote]
We do thank TIFDTT for their efforts, however we were in talks with Grub throughout the war and would have achieved a similar agreement to what we posted to end the war, without them. We do thank them for what they did, but it doesn't change how \m/ would have left the war: on terms we could agree with, and with all of our allies.

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='10 May 2010 - 07:15 AM' timestamp='1273500898' post='2293551']
you guys really do think only in the short-term don't you? remember how long \m/ survived before the UjW.
[/quote]
Remember how \m/ disbanded after getting into war within 7 days of our reformation?
Remember how \m/ disbanded after getting attacked by NpO?
Remember how many days of war \m/ has been in since our reformation?

Really Doch, you're better than this. We get you don't like us, but at least try to criticize us using logic. Bringing up the "lol \m/ UjW" jokes stopped being funny and "cool" months ago.

[SoADarthCyfe6]

[quote]So you are here to tell us how to interpret our own charter?[/quote]

If you Charter is open for interpretation, then that means he is allowed to interpret it and allowed to tell you as well. It is not a one way deal saying "This is the right way." Otherwise if that was the case, your Charter WOULD NOT and COULD NOT be interpreted. However, the choice remains with \m/ on how they wish to Interpret their own charter and enforce it.

[Caliph]

[quote name='SoADarthCyfe6' date='10 May 2010 - 09:35 AM' timestamp='1273509288' post='2293654']
If you Charter is open for interpretation, then that means he is allowed to interpret it and allowed to tell you as well. It is not a one way deal saying "This is the right way." Otherwise if that was the case, your Charter WOULD NOT and COULD NOT be interpreted. However, the choice remains with \m/ on how they wish to Interpret their own charter and enforce it.
[/quote]
I'm not sure if you get the reference.

The war in which Doch is referring to was helped by people on the OWF interpretting our own charter one way, which was different than how we operated under our own charter.

However further discussion of that topic is really off topic. This was originally about TBB unaligning himself and attacking Grämlins. Not sure why so many people are turning this into an \m/ discussion.

[Yggdrazil]

I see that \m/ have taken a page from the Gre dictionary and now define tech raid differently than the rest of Digiterra.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Caliph' date='10 May 2010 - 11:29 AM' timestamp='1273508977' post='2293645']
We actually abided by it and our tech raid suspension was taken seriously. It was always a temporary thing, and it was never stated to be permanent.[/quote]

then why the need to publicly display it? if it was not simply meant as some PR stunt, why publicly announce it.

also "Until further notice \m/ suspends all tech raids.

Signed,

\m/ gov"

that does not imply that it is just temporary, though that is a plausible outcome. it implies that it is indefinite (i.e. no set time limit). so for all anyone outside of \m/ and most likely your allies, it could be temporary, could be permanent and anything in between.

[quote]So you are here to tell us how to interpret our own charter?[/quote]

cuz that is what i said. i could have sworn though the primary argument was that the regulations were not part of the charter and that was my belief. am i now mistaken in that belief and now your regulations [i]are[/i] part of \m/'s charter?

what i said was only in regards to your regulations on tech-raiding which prior to the last war, was stated by \m/ that those regulations are there but can easily be disregarded depending on any amount of circumstances as well as by gov intervention. thus, my statement is quite accurate in that despite having regulations, you do not hold them in any actual regard, otherwise there would not be so many loopholes to get around those pesky regulations.

so i am unclear what your charter has to do with what i said at all. unless you were of course attempting to deflect what i actually stated and divert it to some useless subject.


[quote]We do thank TIFDTT for their efforts, however we were in talks with Grub throughout the war and would have achieved a similar agreement to what we posted to end the war, without them. We do thank them for what they did, but it doesn't change how \m/ would have left the war: on terms we could agree with, and with all of our allies.[/quote]

i really wish i could be bothered to go back all that time ago and read up on what was said. iirc, there were some discussions but \m/ left the war on what Polaris wanted with the only stipulation being Grub stating that he was not the moral police. the term that \m/ left on was the same term that they stated they would never submit to.


[quote]Remember how \m/ disbanded after getting into war within 7 days of our reformation?
Remember how \m/ disbanded after getting attacked by NpO?
Remember how many days of war \m/ has been in since our reformation?

Really Doch, you're better than this. We get you don't like us, but at least try to criticize us using logic. Bringing up the "lol \m/ UjW" jokes stopped being funny and "cool" months ago.
[/quote]

actually, my statement was nothing of the sort about lol \m/ UjW jokes. My statement was simply stating that it appears that \m/ is looking at TBB's threats as some sort of short term consequence. members like CSM stating he wants a poll while he waits for those "phantom" consequences. it all appears to me as if \m/ thinks that should those consequences not happen immediately there will be none. hence why i stated "look at how long \m/ survived [b]before[/b] the UjW. not during the UjW or after the UjW but before. why is that important, \m/ survived quite a while before the consequences finally met up with that when the UjW started.

so my statement was essentially alluding to the fact that the consequences TBB were stating will happen does not have to be immediate but instead could happen a year from now. the more \m/ pisses off people, the more likely they will drive alliances away from them. every power bloc has their ups and downs. this can be seen quite clearly from looking into CN history.

and yes, i know i am quite better than how you described me. it is not my fault you decided to interpret what i posted wrongly.