A Conference in the Gardens

[Chimaera]

MCXA's behavior is a much greater threat to their security than Francesca ever has been.

Maybe they should accuse themselves of something next.

[My Name Is Romance]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='16 April 2010 - 02:55 AM' timestamp='1271400927' post='2262523']
I started playing CN last August, so old Hegemony has nothing to do with me. I would never practice EZI, I can see the argument that what I was doing was close to it, but if Schattenham's true intentions was to stop EZI from happening why wouldn't he just ask me to cut it our first. I think his true motivation to just score some political points.
[/quote]

Actually, you played before this and were in an alliance with a MDP with NPO, Pyramid.

Edit: And Pyramid had no objections to E/PZI

Edited April 16, 2010 by My Name Is Romance

[New Frontier]

And this is the man that garnered 75% of the vote in his reelection campaign?

[Ashoka the Great]

Thank you, Mr. Scattenhamamanalamadingdong, for giving me yet another reason to steer clear of the MCXA. I didn't really need one, though.

Re-rolls are not the same unless the individual in question chooses to make them so.

[color="#FF0000"][i]kingAshokazog points to himself as an example of the latter[/i][/color]

Chasing people down is chasing people down. Period. Call it "just wanting to know where she is" or use some other trite phrase that will make you feel better, but it's stalking. It's creepy and you need to cut it the hell out.

[Biff Webster]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='16 April 2010 - 01:19 AM' timestamp='1271405950' post='2262622']
Schattenham, why didn't you just come talk to me about this more, if I had known you had such concerns I would have likely tried to fix the situation and work out a solution that would have worked for everyone, maybe we still can.
[/quote]

While I appreciate that you feel that you should make it right, you cannot wave your magic diplomacy wand and raise the dead and turn back time. One of the people included in "everyone" no longer exists. They no longer existed when zarophel couldn't be zarophel but a Francesca reincarnation.
Also, this isn't wrong merely because we have concerns about it. I believe you when you say that you do not wish to practice EZI, but the net result is that zarophel doesn't even have zero infra.

EDIT: Is the use of "Schattenham" an accidental misspelling or a play on his name? A case could be made for it being apt, but it would make what you're trying to say clearer if I knew which it was.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Biff Webster

[Ejayrazz]

MCXA: She is none of you're concern. Where she is, unfortunately, is none of your concern. Francesca was stupid for her actions, but the past is the past.

Time to move forward, good luck to all.

[Chief Savage Man]

Francesca wouldn't have been one of Vox's most prolific agents if MCXA didn't provide her with volumes of comedy gold to report back to the Senate.

[supercoolyellow]

[quote]Also, this isn't wrong merely because we have concerns about it. I believe you when you say that you do not wish to practice EZI, but the net result is that zarophel doesn't even have zero infra.[/quote]

Why don't you just ask her to come back to CoJ then I know she gets on IRC and talks to you all, and after this, I doubt we'd have any desire to know anything abou it.

[quote]EDIT: Is the use of "Schattenham" an accidental misspelling or a play on his name? A case could be made for it being apt, but it would make what you're trying to say clearer if I knew which it was. [/quote]

Honest mistake, he has a long name, I'm bound to misspell it.

[Chief Savage Man]

Hail shantamantan.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='16 April 2010 - 02:31 PM' timestamp='1271442649' post='2262974']
Why don't you just ask her to come back to CoJ then I know she gets on IRC and talks to you all, and after this, I doubt we'd have any desire to know anything abou it.[/quote]
It's been 6 months or more since I spoke to Francesca. We pretty much stopped talking when she joined NPO.

[quote]Honest mistake, he has a long name, I'm bound to misspell it.
[/quote]
This isn't a paddleboat, when you peddle in the opposite direction you don't go backwards, you just sit there. "ham" isn't even close to "mann" and anyone that reads as much as you knows that a certain portion of the community calls me Schattenmham (as in bad actor) for giggles. As usual, when there's no good real reply.

As Ashoka said: Chasing people down is chasing people down. Period. Call it "just wanting to know where she is" or use some other trite phrase that will make you feel better, but it's stalking. It's creepy and you need to cut it the hell out.

E: Sorry to get a good thread going and jet, but I have a commitment this weekend so you won't hear any more out of me til Sunday.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Schattenmann

[Mirreille]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='16 April 2010 - 04:19 AM' timestamp='1271405950' post='2262622']
[b]Schattenham[/b], why didn't you just come talk to me about this more, if I had known you had such concerns I would have likely tried to fix the situation and work out a solution that would have worked for everyone, maybe we still can.
[/quote]

Making a conciliatory gesture and insulting him in the same breath does not exactly inspire a lot of confidence in your intentions.

While I can give you the benefit of the doubt so far as that goes, when a big AA comes knocking on the door of a tiny AA with a bit of "friendly" information like this, you should be very clear what you intend as Prince Arutha mentioned, as the smaller party is going to obviously be concerned about that. The whole tracking IPs bit is very disquieting too, if you are not concerned about her, you would not be stalking her like this. You may think this is cool SCY, but a lot of others will not, myself included.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Mirreille

[Biff Webster]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='16 April 2010 - 11:31 AM' timestamp='1271442649' post='2262974']
Why don't you just ask her to come back to CoJ then I know she gets on IRC and talks to you all, and after this, I doubt we'd have any desire to know anything abou it.[/quote]

Too late. zarophel wanted to be anonymous and it is sort of impossible for her to be that now, isn't it?

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='16 April 2010 - 11:31 AM' timestamp='1271442649' post='2262974']
Honest mistake, he has a long name, I'm bound to misspell it.
[/quote]


I figured. I can't think of anyone with more variations to their name as he does.

[Vilien]

SCY: You pretty obviously went out of your way to harass a rerolled player who hadn't caused you any trouble in her new incarnation. I would strongly advise you to avoid going back to your old ways.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Vilien

[Brutilius]

Pretty poor showing here by MCXA. Chasing anonymous re-rolls isn't a great idea, just let the whole Francesca thing die already.

[LokiLockpicker]

[quote name='Schattenmann' date='16 April 2010 - 01:40 PM' timestamp='1271443193' post='2262983']
It's been 6 months or more since I spoke to Francesca. We pretty much stopped talking when she joined NPO.


This isn't a paddleboat, when you peddle in the opposite direction you don't go backwards, you just sit there. "ham" isn't even close to "mann" and anyone that reads as much as you knows that a certain portion of the community calls me Schattenmham (as in bad actor) for giggles. As usual, when there's no good real reply.

As Ashoka said: Chasing people down is chasing people down. Period. Call it "just wanting to know where she is" or use some other trite phrase that will make you feel better, but it's stalking. It's creepy and you need to cut it the hell out.

E: Sorry to get a good thread going and jet, but I have a commitment this weekend so you won't hear any more out of me til Sunday.
[/quote]

So she wasn't even in your alliance when you got the information? Why wouldn't your response in that case have been 'she's not here'?

It bothers me that if you claim supercoolyellow was responsible for her leaving, that you don't take a large amount of the blame for yourself, or your government, since you obviously decided to do more with the information than just ignoring it, as you would have done were you worried that it was stalking. The only way to consider this stalking, without him asking for anything, is if someone bothered her on the assumption that he wanted it. That would make the person actually bothering her as guilty as the person giving out the info. Also, in general it isn't considered illegal to give out public information, and since her IP was available for anyone that chatted with her and on any and all sites she visited, it was relatively public.

[The AUT]

Enough of this "poor show MCXA." It was the act of one person and one person alone. I don't think the blame should be placed on MCXA.

SCY, just let it be man.

[Lord Fingolfin]

This was what I decided to read with the few precious minutes of free time I have now adays. As always, Schattenmann delivers. Oh SCY, a little bird tells me you aren't winning 75% of the popular vote next time. Alas, let Francesca be. She stood up for what she believed in, for that she deserves respect despite her other flaws

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='LokiLockpicker' date='16 April 2010 - 02:57 PM' timestamp='1271444246' post='2263000']
So she wasn't even in your alliance when you got the information? Why wouldn't your response in that case have been 'she's not here'?

It bothers me that if you claim supercoolyellow was responsible for her leaving, that you don't take a large amount of the blame for yourself, or your government, since you obviously decided to do more with the information than just ignoring it, as you would have done were you worried that it was stalking. The only way to consider this stalking, without him asking for anything, is if someone bothered her on the assumption that he wanted it. That would make the person actually bothering her as guilty as the person giving out the info. Also, in general it isn't considered illegal to give out public information, and since her IP was available for anyone that chatted with her and on any and all sites she visited, it was relatively public.
[/quote]
It bothers me that you're not reading.

Francesca is not Zarophel, Zarophel is not Francesca; that is my stance as a man of dignity. The two are separated by time and action. Francesca logs on to IRC every few weeks and speks to old friends from Vox, but I have not spoken to Francesca in months. Zarophel was a member of CoJ from December until April, I spoke to Zarophel regularly.

CoJ ignored the information MCXA gave us by and large, but it greatly upset Zarophel and she left CoJ then quit a few days later. With the information from MCXA being handed out to several AAs, she felt she had no choice whether the label was true or not.

IPs are not available to "anyone who chats with" either individual on IRC because ColdFront uses hostmasks. On top of that, Zarophel used vhosts (as I already pointed out earlier)--it takes a determined individual or group to go about getting IPs from IRC or forums. You have to pro-actively run IPs against your forum database, pass the IP out to other forum admins to run it against their's and so on.

Whether you believe that MCXA was "looking out for CoJ" or "keeping tabs on Francesca because she caused us a lot of trouble" both take a lot of deliberate effort. I've got access to thousands of IPs on several forums, I have never once just gotten curious and started running them against each other because I was bored.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='The AUT' date='16 April 2010 - 03:04 PM' timestamp='1271444678' post='2263004']
Enough of this "poor show MCXA." It was the act of one person and one person alone. I don't think the blame should be placed on MCXA.

SCY, just let it be man.
[/quote]
Your ability to make everything about individuals has always baffled me. SCY is MCXA gov, he was popularly elected with 75% of the vote. He is acting as a representative of the government and people of MCXA.

[Olliee]

He acts based on the peoples choice, he doesn't represent them anymore than I do.

I have--and always will--see democracy as not power to the people but fallacy of the majority. But that is no direct reference to this case.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Olliee' date='16 April 2010 - 03:11 PM' timestamp='1271445089' post='2263014']
He acts based on the peoples choice, he doesn't represent them anymore than I do.

I have--and always will--see democracy as not power to the people but fallacy of the majority. But that is no direct reference to this case.
[/quote]
Then you should probably join an alliance that isn't democratic.

[Olliee]

Not necessarily. That's like saying anarchist IRL shouldn't vote "because they don't believe in it". How else are things going to change without popular choice?

[Biff Webster]

[quote name='The AUT' date='16 April 2010 - 12:04 PM' timestamp='1271444678' post='2263004']
Enough of this "poor show MCXA." It was the act of one person and one person alone. I don't think the blame should be placed on MCXA.

SCY, just let it be man.
[/quote]


SCY's interest in Francesca was not due to, by his own admission, anything on a personal level between her and SCY. It was due to her past relationship with MCXA as a whole.

[LRA KING]

I think and what many of us think here is that SCY should be typing up a public apology to CoJ expecialy Schattenmann. SYC's action have brought disgrace to his alliance the high position he holds. Putting your hands up and letting the public see your truely sorry will work wonders for you SYC. The more you prelong it the worser the storm gets.

[Biff Webster]

[quote name='LRA KING' date='16 April 2010 - 12:21 PM' timestamp='1271445690' post='2263033']
I think and what many of us think here is that SCY should be typing up a public apology to CoJ expecialy Schattenmann. SYC's action have brought disgrace to his alliance the high position he holds. Putting your hands up and letting the public see your truely sorry will work wonders for you SYC. The more you prelong it the worser the storm gets.
[/quote]

Not necessary, at least on my end. I would be content if MCXA and other alliances that still chase rulers across their incarnations to knock it off allowing alliances to accept reincarnated souls without fear of reprisal.
This is supposed to be a new world, but some have failed to put on their dancing shoes.

EDIT: clarity

Edited April 16, 2010 by Biff Webster