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A Conference in the Gardens


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[quote name='Schattenmann' date='16 April 2010 - 01:42 AM' timestamp='1271396555' post='2262397']
I don't like what you did or how you went about it. If we misunderstood your intent that's what it is, but there wasn't any reason for this to be going on in the first place. This is business that has no business on Planet Bob.
[/quote]

You heard it here: common courtesy has no place on Planet Bob.

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[quote name='Schattenmann' date='16 April 2010 - 12:42 AM' timestamp='1271396555' post='2262397']
I don't like what you did or how you went about it. If we misunderstood your intent that's what it is, but there wasn't any reason for this to be going on in the first place. This is business that has no business on Planet Bob.
[/quote]

If that is true why didn't you ever raise that concern with me when I messaged you weeks ago, or why did you magically appear to me today, told me that you had found Francesca in your alliance, and then asked me to tell you what we had planned. Not once did you say "hey this looks like EZI, what the f--- are you guys doing?" You never show any sign of having a problem with it, you are just using this to make blatant lies against MCXA and myself. You came to me about an hour ago just so you could make this post. the logs that I have posted will show this is true.

Edited by supercoolyellow
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If this person is a multi and a spy who caused trouble for MCXA in the past, I don't see any problem with supercoolyellow trying to get to the bottom of it or asking a few questions. Where did he say anything about ZI'ing the person in question? This thread seems like a lame attempt to make MCXA look bad, and there's really no place for it. :|

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[quote name='Geoffron X' date='16 April 2010 - 01:46 AM' timestamp='1271396770' post='2262405']
You heard it here: common courtesy has no place on Planet Bob.
[/quote]
That's cute Geoffron. IP tracking and 1-year-old reroll squabbles have no place on Planet Bob.

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='16 April 2010 - 01:47 AM' timestamp='1271396802' post='2262407']
If that is true why didn't you ever raise that concern with me when I messaged you weeks ago, or why did you magically appear to me today, told me that you had found Francesca in your alliance, and then asked me to tell you what we had planned. Not once did you say "hey this looks like EZI, what the f--- are you guys doing?" You never show any sign of having a problem with it, you are just using this to make blatant lies against MCXA and myself. You came to me about an hour ago just so you could make this post. the logs that I have posted will show this is true.
[/quote]
You didnt' message me weeks ago, you spoke with Biff Webster and told him you suspected someone that MCXA considers an enemy was in CoJ. When I sent you a query later you asked me when I had joined CoJ, despite having proposed a merge with CoJ a few months earlier:
[quote]Session Start: Sat Apr 03 20:15:34 2010
Session Ident: SuperCoolYellow[MCXA]
[20:15] <Schattenmann> You rang?
[20:38] <SuperCoolYellow[MCXA]> you're in COJ now?
Session Close: Sun Apr 04 00:00:00 2010[/quote]
Biff forwarded the logs of your convo with him so I didn't speak with you further.

I got in touch with you tonight before posting to try and get a sense of your intentions, as you've already posted:
[quote][00:00] <Schattenmann> I guess the question more aptly was what's your intentions with francesca rerolls?
[00:00] <supercoolyellow[MCXA]> we never really thought that far ahead, we just try to be aware of her, she's done a lot of harm to us[/quote]
So, you were following Francesca--or people that you believe to be Francesca--around without knowing why, informing all kinds of AAs that you thought she was there, and basically listening to a lot of "[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1dtc2sGRdc"]Every Breath You Take[/url]," a song that was popular in Schloss Eggenberg several years ago. Smells funny to me.

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[quote name='Owney OSullivan' date='16 April 2010 - 01:56 AM' timestamp='1271397372' post='2262424']
If this person is a multi and a spy who caused trouble for MCXA in the past, I don't see any problem with supercoolyellow trying to get to the bottom of it or asking a few questions. Where did he say anything about ZI'ing the person in question? This thread seems like a lame attempt to make MCXA look bad, and there's really no place for it. :|
[/quote]
That's why you just got played by the whole world. I don't know about anyone else, but I spent a year trying to end the practice of hunting people for years.

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[quote name='Michael Schumacher' date='16 April 2010 - 12:44 AM' timestamp='1271396672' post='2262401']
Just to inform those who haven't read our Charter, the Multicolored Cross-X Alliance does not engage in either PZI or EZI.

We were curious if Fran had made her return, that is all.
[/quote]
This behaviour is simply inexcusable. Part of the reason perma-ZI was so hated was because it involved people taking the hunt of the accused to another level (OOC: through things like IP traces, IRC idents, etc). These types of actions have no place on Digiterra, and should not be tolerated. As we see from this example, even when the target (and this person [i]is[/i] still a target for the MCXA) is not subject to direct attack, it can still very easily drive them from the world through fear, frustration, and intimidation.

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[quote]You didnt' message me weeks ago, you spoke with Biff Webster and told him you suspected someone that MCXA considers an enemy was in CoJ. When I sent you a query later you asked me when I had joined CoJ, despite having proposed a merge with CoJ a few months earlier: [/quote]

I got a little confused, my sincere apologies for forgetting who you are. It will never happen again, I promise. Now I will always know who you are, a liar. Also for some reason Mirc saved my logz of you and biff in the same file so for a second I just assumed Biff was a name you use on IRc.

[quote]Biff forwarded the logs of your convo with him so I didn't speak with you further.

I got in touch with you tonight before posting to try and get a sense of your intentions, as you've already posted:[/quote]

That's funny it seems to me like you really just wanted to accuse MCXA of EZI.

[quote]So, you were following Francesca--or people that you believe to be Francesca--around without knowing why, informing all kinds of AAs that you thought she was there, and basically listening to a lot of "Every Breath You Take," a song that was popular in Schloss Eggenberg several years ago. Smells funny to me. [/quote]

you know maybe, it was the wrong thing to keep tabs on her, I don't know tbh, but we would never do EZI to anyone. Maybe in years past, I don't know, I haven't been here long enough to know, but the current leadership of MCXA would never even think of EZI.

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[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='16 April 2010 - 02:15 AM' timestamp='1271398487' post='2262460']
That's funny it seems to me like you really just wanted to accuse MCXA of EZI.
[/quote]
What else do you call a process of not allowing someone to just be who they want to be?

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[quote name='Schattenmann' date='16 April 2010 - 01:17 AM' timestamp='1271398661' post='2262464']
What else do you call a process of not allowing someone to just be who they want to be?
[/quote]

Francesca woudln't have even had to ever reroll unless you had come to me tonight to tell me that she was in your alliance. If anyone forced you her to re-roll it was you. Are you practicing EZI then? I did not force her to leave an alliance I simply gave alliances information and let them make their own decisions. You decision was to come to me tonight, sell your friend out, and then accuse me of EZI.

[quote][23:54] <Schattenmann> So what are you intentions with Zarophel?
01[23:55] <supercoolyellow[MCXA]> hey Schattenmann
01[23:55] <supercoolyellow[MCXA]> first how are you today?
[23:55] <Schattenmann> I'm sleepy
01[23:55] <supercoolyellow[MCXA]> ahh ok
[23:57] <Schattenmann> So
01[23:57] <supercoolyellow[MCXA]> sorry, I'm not sure I know who zarophel is[/quote]

Edited by supercoolyellow
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[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='16 April 2010 - 02:21 AM' timestamp='1271398868' post='2262468']
Francesca woudln't have even had to ever reroll unless you had come to me tonight to tell me that she was in your alliance. If anyone forced you her to re-roll it was you. Are you practicing EZI then? I did not force her to leave an alliance I simply gave alliances information and let them make their own decisions. You decision was to come to me tonight, sell your friend out, and then accuse me of EZI.
[/quote]
Me saying the name of the person that left Planet Bob after your accusations is not "selling" people out, and I don't think anyone is dumb enough to trip on that root. And, she deleted 6 days ago.

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As the person who guided Francesca into Vox, and counseled her repeatedly throughout her time as an agent, I can say that she spent her entire time trying to reconcile her Voxist beliefs with her role as the MCXA's MoFA. She was not the malevolent spy trying to bring the alliance down, and she certainly did not cause the already inevitable TSO split. She simply led a large, anti-Hegemony faction of a democratic alliance, and attempted to put the MCXA on the winning side of the Karma War. She had good intentions, it's just that her methods of doing this were intrinsically Voxian.

That's all I'll say on this bigger issue, until someone has a go at me.

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[quote name='Michael Schumacher' date='15 April 2010 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1271396672' post='2262401']
Just to inform those who haven't read our Charter, the Multicolored Cross-X Alliance does not engage in either PZI or EZI.

We were curious if Fran had made her return, that is all.

Oli
[/quote]

Pretty much this, whether you want to believe that or not, that's up to you. It's apparent you're just going to continue to read into things and twist around the situation despite what SCY has told you his/our intentions were. You were handed a piece of information, instead of taking it as that or confronting someone from MCXA about the situation, you choose to blow it out of proportion here.

But it's coo guys.

At least we now know which alliances would not like to be informed of potential multis.

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[quote name='Schattenmann' date='16 April 2010 - 01:26 AM' timestamp='1271399155' post='2262478']
Me saying the name of the person that left Planet Bob after your accusations is not "selling" people out, and I don't think anyone is dumb enough to trip on that root. And, she deleted 6 days ago.
[/quote]

Sorry I didn't know that she deleted, because I had no idea who she was playing as, and never would have had you not told me tonight of your own volition

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If she was playing multis, then she had broken the covenant we have with the admin. It is my opinion that her deletion was because she was a cheater. Given Schattenmann's lack of defense until the deletion occurred. If this isn't correct then it contradicts everything I thought I knew about Schattenmann's character. I believe, had it just been a reroll, we would have had a more spirited defense earlier.

Edited by Yggdrazil
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So supercoolyellow informs you that a member of your alliance has multis. Extending you a courtesy he had no requirement to. Your response is to go on the OWF and spin this act into him somehow physically forcing her to delete her nation? Thats a pretty massive stretch Schatt even for you and low, really low. Yet most people are buying this crock. Why is the peanut gallery such a drama whore?

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[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='16 April 2010 - 02:28 AM' timestamp='1271399301' post='2262484']
Sorry I didn't know that she deleted, because I had no idea who she was playing as, and never would have had you not told me tonight of your own volition
[/quote]
Keep pedaling your time bike, buddy, because before all that, MCXA was nose to the ground putting all this in motion.

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@super, [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84335&view=findpost&p=2262302"]here[/url], you claim that it was fran herself bragging to you that she had multis or spies or whatever in that alliance and [url="[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84335&view=findpost&p=2262302"]here[/url]"]here#2[/url] you are claiming that a friend of hers told you she had multis.

Where are the logs showing that her or her friend who whoever that does or does not exist told you this.

I personally view this as either A) you are holding on to a grudge against from over a year ago and have them on a double secret probationary ZI list that would be a violation of terms signed by your government. or B) you are holding a grudge against someone from over a year ago and are trying to go about other means to have them ZI'ed or maybe not ZI'ed but trying to prevent them from being able to peacefully live on planet bob. This person has moved on and has not caused you any trouble yet you are still seemingly trying to cause her trouble. If there is a 3rd option on what your motives for "bringing this to the attention of CoJ" then I and planet bob would love to hear it... But I really can only imagine it being one of the above 2 or some variation of that...

If there were multis involved then it should have been reported to the almighty invisible hands of planet bob (aka admin and team).

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[quote name='NickCooley' date='16 April 2010 - 02:31 AM' timestamp='1271399487' post='2262488']
So supercoolyellow informs you that a member of your alliance has multis. Extending you a courtesy he had no requirement to. Your response is to go on the OWF and spin this act into him somehow physically forcing her to delete her nation? Thats a pretty massive stretch Schatt even for you and low, really low. Yet most people are buying this crock. Why is the peanut gallery such a drama whore?
[/quote]
I defer to my good friend Biff to give you a simple reply:
<Biff[CoJ]> She wanted to be anonymous, MCXA said nu uh

Oh yeah, also thanks for qualifying that you think I'm really low, but this is super low. Makes me feel good.

Edited by Schattenmann
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[quote name='Yggdrazil' date='16 April 2010 - 02:29 AM' timestamp='1271399369' post='2262485']
If she was playing multis, then she had broken the covenant we have with the admin. It is my opinion that her deletion was because she was a cheater. Given Schattenmann's lack of defense until the deletion occurred. If this isn't correct then it contradicts everything I thought I knew about Schattenmann's character. I believe, had it just been a reroll, we would have had a more spirited defense earlier.
[/quote]
The gross result of MCXA's actions didn't occur until recently, that is why this is necessary now.

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[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='16 April 2010 - 02:21 AM' timestamp='1271398868' post='2262468']
Francesca woudln't have even had to ever reroll unless you had come to me tonight to tell me that she was in your alliance.[/quote]

C'mon SCY, really? "This person could have lived peacefully, as long as she lived in hiding; howevever, since we now know who she is, she dies."

I won't make parallels, but was that really the intention of your comment? I offer you the chance to clarify since we have a long history.

Actually, before posting this, I reread your post, and it could also be interpreted as meaning "if you had come clean, she would have been cool, but since you didn't confirm our suspicions, we are going to persecute her as if our theories were accurate."

Either way, I offer you that chance to clarify.

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[quote name='PrinceArutha' date='16 April 2010 - 01:34 AM' timestamp='1271399629' post='2262490']
@super, [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84335&view=findpost&p=2262302"]here[/url], you claim that it was fran herself bragging to you that she had multis or spies or whatever in that alliance and [url="[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84335&view=findpost&p=2262302"]here[/url]"]here#2[/url] you are claiming that a friend of hers told you she had multis.

Where are the logs showing that her or her friend who whoever that does or does not exist told you this. [quote]

I've thought about giving those logs, but they aren't mine personally and so it isnt' my place to post them here, and I wouldn't want to bring anyone else into this cluster$%&@.

[quote]I personally view this as either A) you are holding on to a grudge against from over a year ago and have them on a double secret probationary ZI list that would be a violation of terms signed by your government. or B) you are holding a grudge against someone from over a year ago and are trying to go about other means to have them ZI'ed or maybe not ZI'ed but trying to prevent them from being able to peacefully live on planet bob. This person has moved on and has not caused you any trouble yet you are still seemingly trying to cause her trouble. If there is a 3rd option on what your motives for "bringing this to the attention of CoJ" then I and planet bob would love to hear it... But I really can only imagine it being one of the above 2 or some variation of that...

If there were multis involved then it should have been reported to the almighty invisible hands of planet bob (aka admin and team).
[/quote]

The information we had was from a second hand source telling us that she had stated she had multiple accounts in three different alliances. What I did was motivated by an attempt to be open with other people, I contacted the gov of those three alliances told them what we had been told, and gave them her IPs.

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[quote name='Yggdrazil' date='16 April 2010 - 07:29 PM' timestamp='1271399369' post='2262485']
If she was playing multis, then she had broken the covenant we have with the admin. It is my opinion that her deletion was because she was a cheater. Given Schattenmann's lack of defense until the deletion occurred. If this isn't correct then it contradicts everything I thought I knew about Schattenmann's character. I believe, had it just been a reroll, we would have had a more spirited defense earlier.
[/quote]
OOC: If he had any evidence at all then he should have reported it to the game staff. Multis are against the ToS. Because he instead decided to pester CoJ and others about this, it seems like he is in fact fishing for a legitimate reroll (afer hearing about this from her RL friends) using MCXA(?) IPs of francesca's. Hence the EZI/stalker accusations. If he actually had evidence for a multi- he shouldn't have bothered with talking to alliances.

By the sound of things, MCXA are not in fact condoning EZI. However, what they have been doing appears to look like it. I gather from the comments ITT that they wont be doing this again and I applaud them for this.

Edited by Banksy
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