A Conference in the Gardens

[darkmage768]

Lol

supercoolyellow says he would never practice EZI, but he’s running around harassing people for their former identities, and tracking them via IP and hostmask evidence. it comes to the same thing- the person despairs and deletes their nation, as has happened in this case, and the community loses overall. whether Francesca is on EZI is irrelevant, as she’s being harassed for her past either way. I thought karma was about changing this sort of crap.

Besides if supercoolyellow’s only concern was that she was a multi he should’ve reported her and not harassed her govt about it.


i’d also like to see logs of Francesca telling everyone she had a multi in CoJ. if they aren't 'his to give' then why the hell is he citing them as evidence

lolMCXA

[Sal Paradise]

So far in this thread the story went from "we like to keep an eye on her" to "oh, we just heard, ya know, that she has a new or something like that; just a courtesy".

"Obvious lies right to your face" was probably my favourite Hegemony tune. It's great to see the old masters reprise their finest work, but you can tell they're getting old, replaced a few of the original members, and their voices aren't quite the same.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Sal Paradise

[PrinceArutha]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='16 April 2010 - 07:40 AM' timestamp='1271400021' post='2262498']
The information we had was from a second hand source telling us that she had stated she had multiple accounts in three different alliances. What I did was motivated by an attempt to be open with other people, I contacted the gov of those three alliances told them what we had been told, and gave them her IPs.
[/quote]
Well, just cause Im curious, who were the other alliances/leaders you contacted?

I do hope that your attempts were genuinely to be open with the other alliances and not because you (admittedly) held a grudge and wished to see harm/ZI/whatever befall a member of Planet Bob for past actions. That would possibly be seen as a bad thing by some.

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' date='16 April 2010 - 01:40 AM' timestamp='1271400015' post='2262497']
C'mon SCY, really? "This person could have lived peacefully, as long as she lived in hiding; howevever, since we now know who she is, she dies." quote

I won't make parallels, but was that really the intention of your comment? I offer you the chance to clarify since we have a long history. [/quote]

Thanks I appreciate that.

[quote]Actually, before posting this, I reread your post, and it could also be interpreted as meaning "if you had come clean, she would have been cool, but since you didn't confirm our suspicions, we are going to persecute her as if our theories were accurate."

Either way, I offer you that chance to clarify.
[/quote]

What I meant is that the info I told CoJ had to have no repercussions to her what so ever. We had no proof that she was in CoJ and even if we did, I din't ask if she was in COJ. We just said we had reason to think she was, and give them her IP addresses. There is nothing farther we did/could have done/ would have wanted to do at that point. Francesca has caused a lot of drama for MCXA and this helped cuase internal problems for us. In my mind I wouldn't want Francesca to be in my alliance, but given Schatt's history with Fran it makes sense that he would offer her a home. However, I really did not even think about it when I gave him the adresses, because to me this was not a big deal. How Ironic.

[PrinceArutha]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='16 April 2010 - 07:51 AM' timestamp='1271400666' post='2262515']
Thanks I appreciate that.



What I meant is that the info I told CoJ had to have no repercussions to her what so ever. We had no proof that she was in CoJ and even if we did, I din't ask if she was in COJ. We just said we had reason to think she was, and give them her IP addresses. There is nothing farther we did/could have done/ would have wanted to do at that point. Francesca has caused a lot of drama for MCXA and this helped cuase internal problems for us. In my mind I wouldn't want Francesca to be in my alliance, but given Schatt's history with Fran it makes sense that he would offer her a home. However, I really did not even think about it when I gave him the adresses, because to me this was not a big deal. How Ironic.
[/quote]


For future reference, if I were in your position I would have made damn sure that the people I was talking to knew that I didnt wish ill will upon someone and that I was only looking out for them and passing along information. However, to be honest, it doesnt look like your intentions were entirely pure.

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Sal Paradise' date='16 April 2010 - 01:47 AM' timestamp='1271400461' post='2262512']
So far in this thread the story went from "we like to keep an eye on her" to "oh, we just heard, ya know, that she had multis or something like that; just a courtesy".

"Obvious lies right to your face" was probably my favourite Hegemony tune. It's great to see the old masters reprise their finest work, but you can tell they're getting old, replaced a few of the original members, and their voices aren't quite the same.
[/quote]

I started playing CN last August, so old Hegemony has nothing to do with me. I would never practice EZI, I can see the argument that what I was doing was close to it, but if Schattenham's true intentions was to stop EZI from happening why wouldn't he just ask me to cut it our first. I think his true motivation to just score some political points.

[Banksy]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='16 April 2010 - 07:51 PM' timestamp='1271400666' post='2262515']
Francesca has caused a lot of drama for MCXA and this helped cuase internal problems for us. In my mind I wouldn't want Francesca to be in my alliance....[/quote]
So you're making sure she can't be a member of another alliance? Okay.


Not persecuting her though

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Banksy' date='16 April 2010 - 01:55 AM' timestamp='1271400939' post='2262524']
So you're making sure she can't be a member of another alliance? Okay.


Not persecuting her though
[/quote]

I can force other alliances to accept who they do and do not wish to have as members? Wow I didn't know I had such power.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='16 April 2010 - 02:51 AM' timestamp='1271400666' post='2262515']
Francesca has caused a lot of drama for MCXA and this helped cuase internal problems for us. In my mind I wouldn't want Francesca to be in my alliance, but given Schatt's history with Fran it makes sense that he would offer her a home. However, I really did not even think about it when I gave him the adresses, because to me this was not a big deal. How Ironic.
[/quote]
It's been over a year since Francesca had anything to do with MCXA. She was a plant in a Continuum alliance like 100 other Vox operatives, and she managed to get elected to gov like a dozen other Vox operatives. She got as much info that [i]helped[/i] MCXA from Vox as Vox got from her that hurt Continuum. The idea that information that Francesca still lives could cause you trouble or drama or whatever is preposterous. I doubt half your membership even knows who Francesca was, and the other half are in TSO. I didn't "give [anyone] a home" due to past affiliations because I don't know the past identities of any reroll that has ever joined CoJ--past identities are of no concern to me and no bearing on the Cult when left in the past where they belong.

Session Start: Thu Dec 10 23:14:27 2009
Session Ident: zarophel
[23:14] Session Ident: zarophel ([TropicalFreedom vhost info])
[23:14] <zarophel> Hello
[23:14] <zarophel> are you around please?
[23:14] <Schattenmann> For a moment
[23:15] <zarophel> can you give me a link to your forums please?
[23:15] <zarophel> I'd like to join your alliance.
[23:15] <Schattenmann> Ah! Sure.
[23:15] <Schattenmann> http://forums.coj-cn.co.cc/
[23:15] <zarophel> Cheers XD
[23:15] <zarophel> I'm afraid my nation is tiny- I'm a reroll
[23:16] <Schattenmann> I figured you're a reroll, saw [TropicalFreedom vhost info] a lot in my Vox days
[23:16] <zarophel> Hah, yes. I'm going to sort that out in a bit- get a shell instead of a vhost.
[23:17] <Schattenmann> Your nation size is not an issue, though. We are all small at one point, or many points depending on our path
[23:17] <zarophel> lol, well, Vox were all small for about nine months
[23:17] <Schattenmann> I've never reached 11k NS.
[23:17] <zarophel> whoa O_O
[23:18] <Schattenmann> Since Feb 07
[23:18] <Schattenmann> That's what happens when you run your mouth haha
[23:18] <zarophel> hehehe
[23:18] <zarophel> would've been fun though
[23:19] <Schattenmann> I appreciate your forthrightness on the reroll end, and I won't push or pressure you about your former identity (tat's the point of rerolling and the downfall of 99.9% of rerolls) but I will simply ask two things:
[23:19] <Schattenmann> 1- Will your presence in the Cult cause it any potential danger
[23:19] <Schattenmann> 2- Can you be a proper reroll and keep your past in the past?
[23:20] <zarophel> I highly doubt I'll be a danger to the Cult- I'm not on PZI/EZI lists.
[23:21] <Schattenmann> Great
[23:21] <zarophel> As for the second question, there are players in this game that I dislike deeply, on an OOC level.. if that is an issue, then I suppose you shouldn't accept me. However, I do intend to play an entirely different character, and I will try to have as little to do with them as possible.
[23:22] <zarophel> It's one of the reasons I chose CoJ... it's out of the way, a place where I can relax and chill out.
[23:23] <Schattenmann> Your path is yours. We all have that person/group of people, especially me.
[23:24] <Schattenmann> I'll clue you in on our app process to minimize frustration. You'll fill out the app, then I'll open a question-and-answer thread for Cult members to question you.
[23:24] <zarophel> sounds fine

Edited April 16, 2010 by Schattenmann

[Gopherbashi]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='16 April 2010 - 02:51 AM' timestamp='1271400666' post='2262515']
Francesca has caused a lot of drama for MCXA and this helped cuase internal problems for us. In my mind I wouldn't want Francesca to be in my alliance, but given Schatt's history with Fran it makes sense that he would offer her a home. However, I really did not even think about it when I gave him the adresses, because to me this was not a big deal. How Ironic.
[/quote]
So let her stay there. There's no need to go bouncing all over Planet Bob throwing IP addresses everywhere just because Fran might happen to exist.

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='16 April 2010 - 02:51 AM' timestamp='1271400666' post='2262515']
Thanks I appreciate that.



What I meant is that the info I told CoJ had to have no repercussions to her what so ever. We had no proof that she was in CoJ and even if we did, I din't ask if she was in COJ. We just said we had reason to think she was, and give them her IP addresses. There is nothing farther we did/could have done/ would have wanted to do at that point. Francesca has caused a lot of drama for MCXA and this helped cuase internal problems for us. In my mind I wouldn't want Francesca to be in my alliance, but given Schatt's history with Fran it makes sense that he would offer her a home. However, I really did not even think about it when I gave him the adresses, because to me this was not a big deal. How Ironic.
[/quote]

Sorry, SCY, I don't buy it. There is no reason for you to know where she is if you weren't intending on EZI'ing or making her life hell. Even if you decided not to attack militarily, you would still have members who knew where Francesca was, and would have made each step she took that much harder. It's just human nature. Now, I am no fan of Francesca and anyone who wants to search my posts will find that to be the truth. However, that has no bearing on the fact that the steps you took were 100% unneccesary if you did not care about the fate or activities of this reroll, and really speak to a poor decision on your and MCXA's part.

Really, really poor show.

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='16 April 2010 - 02:56 AM' timestamp='1271400997' post='2262525']
I can force other alliances to accept who they do and do not wish to have as members? Wow I didn't know I had such power.
[/quote]

You don't. That's why there's the uproar. No one is certain why you are acting as if you do... but you are.

[PrinceArutha]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='16 April 2010 - 07:55 AM' timestamp='1271400927' post='2262523']
I started playing CN last August, so old Hegemony has nothing to do with me. I would never practice EZI, I can see the argument that what I was doing was close to it, but if Schattenham's true intentions was to stop EZI from happening why wouldn't he just ask me to cut it our first. I think his true motivation to just score some political points.
[/quote]


Well, you do kinda have something to do with old hegemony. you represent MCXA and have to overcome people's thoughts about them. some people still equate them with the old hegemony... you should be more careful in realizing this in the future. Not trying to be the jerk, just sayin'.

I dont think schatt was trying to win political points. knowing his past I am fairly certain he doesnt care about political points....

[NickCooley]

[quote name='Schattenmann' date='16 April 2010 - 07:35 AM' timestamp='1271399714' post='2262493']
I defer to my good friend Biff to give you a simple reply:
<Biff[CoJ]> She wanted to be anonymous, MCXA said nu uh

Oh yeah, also thanks for qualifying that you think I'm really low, but this is super low. Makes me feel good.
[/quote]

Let me clarify. The act itself, this smear campaign, I believe to be low. In all honesty I'm quite indifferent to you.

EDIT: My question was answered earlier in the thread. It doesn't matter now. I'm not entirely convinced but thats all I have to ask.

Edited April 16, 2010 by NickCooley

[Sal Paradise]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='15 April 2010 - 11:55 PM' timestamp='1271400927' post='2262523']
I started playing CN last August, so old Hegemony has nothing to do with me. I would never practice EZI, I can see the argument that what I was doing was close to it, but if Schattenham's true intentions was to stop EZI from happening why wouldn't he just ask me to cut it our first. I think his true motivation to just score some political points.
[/quote]

I never said you practice EZI, I said you practice lying to people's faces. And you did it again! You're very good at this.

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Sal Paradise' date='16 April 2010 - 02:29 AM' timestamp='1271402970' post='2262569']
I never said you practice EZI, I said you practice lying to people's faces. And you did it again! You're very good at this.
[/quote]

You said hegemony was good at lying to people's faces, I was trying to explain that I wansn't practicing ezi although there is likely nothing I can do to persuade you so.

Schattenham, why didn't you just come talk to me about this more, if I had known you had such concerns I would have likely tried to fix the situation and work out a solution that would have worked for everyone, maybe we still can.

Edited April 16, 2010 by supercoolyellow

[Sal Paradise]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='16 April 2010 - 01:19 AM' timestamp='1271405950' post='2262622']
You said hegemony was good at lying to people's faces, I was trying to explain that I wansn't practicing ezi although there is likely nothing I can do to persuade you so.[/quote]

You lie about your intentions. In one breath you're keeping track of Francesca and in another you just catch wind that she has a new nation and you're a courteous concerned citizen.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Sal Paradise

[LRA KING]

[u]Schattenham[/u] is right, this [u]Francesca[/u] has not commited any more crimes on [u]MXCA[/u] in over a year but yet you still track her. And to note i dont understand one minute you claim you were tipped off about her and the other your trying to keep track of her movements?? which one is it [u]Supercoolyellow[/u]. Instead of putting your hands up and accepting what is being charged you wip up a wind and try to deny it, you then post logs that just incriminate you even more. lol

Even the best of Us make mistakes.

Edited April 16, 2010 by LRA KING

[Olliee]

[quote]Bah. Get over it MCXA. I have no regard for petty grudges, and no need of them either. You're a disgrace and I spit on you[/quote]

I agree with Rebel Virginia, actually- and I'm a member of MCXA. Seriously, Francesca is a thing of the past. Nobody I know wants to keep tracks on her, and I certainly do not. Let her play the darn game.

[The Pansy]

I was never a fan of Francesca, in fact, we clashed heads a few times, but Francesca died when her original nation went into admins arms in the sky.
Leave her be, stop chasing her, and stop making topics about her.

Good luck whoever, wherever, whenever.

[Olliee]

Maybe the IC/OOC divide isn't as strong here as in other simulations I've played, but surely you can just say that that character of hers was just that- a CHARACTER.

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='Olliee' date='16 April 2010 - 07:56 AM' timestamp='1271418949' post='2262725']
Maybe the IC/OOC divide isn't as strong here as in other simulations I've played, but surely you can just say that that character of hers was just that- a CHARACTER.
[/quote]

OOC: A number of us keep a separation evident and clear. Others choose not to, but that is their choice.

IC:

Francesca died years ago when her nation fell. It seems like you're just chasing the imaginary boogieman, MCXA.

[LokiLockpicker]

Honestly the proper response from Francesca, assuming that's who it was, when approached by her new government about it would have been to tell the truth.
The response from her government should have been honest, either they had no problem with it as they say, or they did and told her to leave.
If they had no problem they could have just ignored any questions or responded that she wasn't there, or said that the IP belonged to a different person now. Any of which would have the effect of not outing the 'stalked' individual in their eyes. They are all unprovable and likely would have caused any speculation into it to stop.

Personally, if I had a problem with what Supercoolyellow was doing, I would have responded to Supercoolyellow's queries asking why he was doing it, and if given a response that was not stalking would have let him off with a stern warning, rather than accuse him in public of something he may or may not have had any intention of doing. Public accusation over a non-issue seems to me to be a worse crime than giving information to others without any stated intent.

[kriekfreak]

Who let SCY into MCXA gov, that must be the most foolish thing to do. There is no way to try to talk this right SCY, you messed up big time. I expect a handwritten apology personally delivered to Schattenman, at least.

Edited April 16, 2010 by kriekfreak

[Poyplemonkeys]

The most amusing part of this whole thing for me is the merger proposition to be honest What were you thinking?