The Great Reset

[MaGneT]

Many people have dubbed this war as such, what with the amount of damage being dealt out. Many top nations have already lost well above 75,000 Nation Strength.
But it's not The Great Reset. It's the Great Revert.

Who's the only [url=http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=New+Pacific+Order&input1=]major political player[/url] not taking massive damage in this war?

For better or worse, at this rate, we'll be back to a world where the most powerful alliance is the New Pacific Order after the war. I find that painfully ironic, especially seeing as the two alliances whose leaders spearheaded Karma (MK and TOP) are currently at the center of this fight.

Figured that was worth pointing out.

[janax]

TOP wasn't involved with Karma at the beginning. Liquidmercury was the "Wrath of Karma", but was a member of the Gremlins then.

[memoryproblems]

Yeah, but the alliance that was basically #2 on Pacifica's side in Karma, IRON is getting a severe beating.

When NPO comes out of terms, all those that they would likely have signed treaties with will be smoking piles of rubble, which was likely part of what C&G wanted to see.

[angryraccoon]

[quote name='memoryproblems' date='12 February 2010 - 12:44 PM' timestamp='1266007458' post='2178064']
Yeah, but the alliance that was basically #2 on Pacifica's side in Karma, IRON is getting a severe beating.

When NPO comes out of terms, all those that they would likely have signed treaties with will be smoking piles of rubble, which was likely part of what C&G wanted to see.
[/quote]

What do you mean we wanted to see? This war was in no way planned by anyone in C&G. We are the defenders here yet you seem to forget that. It does suit your name though.

[Jack Diorno]

NPO has an incredibly low average NS, and their tech level is decreasing everyday due to surrender terms, they have become a militarily useless alliance and they wont be a threat to anyone beside micro-alliances for a long time after they exit surrender terms.

It's a little hard to see with the war, but if you look at UE's graph:
http://uevil.maybe.net/testing/newcharts/ATE2.html
and see the NPO has been dropping tech for quite a long time. This renders them useless.

The only thing NPO could provide that is useful is some leadership, ex hegemony has been making terrible move after terrible move without NPO telling them what to do. I imagine this is going to be likely, since the ex hegemony are increasingly losing political power and strength as they lose war after war, they will become desperate enough to latch on to the single hegemony alliance that showed some promise.

[President Obama]

TOP did not spearhead Karma.

[Kindom of Goon]

They may end up rising to the top of the alliance rankings but I'm far from being convinced they'll become the most powerful alliance again politically. Some of their more powerful old allies don't seem to be all that keen on re-lighting the fire from what I've seen. The ones that are have taken quite a beating.

It's going to take a lot of skill to get back even a fraction of the power they once had, and I've not seen much of that from them in a long time.

[MaGneT]

[quote name='President Obama' date='12 February 2010 - 04:01 PM' timestamp='1266008509' post='2178096']
TOP did not spearhead Karma.
[/quote]
I viewed Citadel as one main power core of Karma, and CnG as the other.

I wasn't comparing them to Vox in the sense that they started the dominos, just the fact that they were a major military contributor.

[der_ko]

[quote name='memoryproblems' date='12 February 2010 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1266007458' post='2178064']
Yeah, but the alliance that was basically #2 on Pacifica's side in Karma, IRON is getting a severe beating.

When NPO comes out of terms, all those that they would likely have signed treaties with will be smoking piles of rubble, which was likely part of what C&G wanted to see.
[/quote]I like having our ego stroked as much as the the next guy, but C&G didn't control, and we certainly didn't orchestrate this war. We did everything in our power to stop this cluster$%&@ of a war from happening, but why let facts get in the way of a perfectly good conspiracy theory?

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Jack Diorno' date='12 February 2010 - 02:55 PM' timestamp='1266008145' post='2178087']
NPO has an incredibly low average NS, and their tech level is decreasing everyday due to surrender terms, they have become a militarily useless alliance and they wont be a threat to anyone beside micro-alliances for a long time after they exit surrender terms.

It's a little hard to see with the war, but if you look at UE's graph:
http://uevil.maybe.net/testing/newcharts/ATE2.html
and see the NPO has been dropping tech for quite a long time. This renders them useless.

The only thing NPO could provide that is useful is some leadership, ex hegemony has been making terrible move after terrible move without NPO telling them what to do. I imagine this is going to be likely, since the ex hegemony are increasingly losing political power and strength as they lose war after war, they will become desperate enough to latch on to the single hegemony alliance that showed some promise.
[/quote]

Underestimating them alot there Jack. Being under terms for such a long time, they could easily buy up alot of tech and then deal their way back up rapidly. They have low NS because they have 6 nukes and very little else as far as military. Once they get going again after terms, I expect to see a very large jump in their average and over all NS.

To the OP, I do not think NPO will be like the way they were before. They would have to line up alot of strong allies to do so. Even then if they tried the same methods as before, the world would unite once again to take them down cuz many would want "the good fight" once again.

It will be interesting to see though how the end of this war reshapes the planet.

Everyday, us smaller alliances keep getting closer to sanction Not really but still alot of damage is taking place where those that are in the 3-4 mil NS range if they stay out of war and plan properly could be legit contenders for sanction. GPA in a couple of weeks will be the numer one alliance in NS, go figure.

[anenu]

The Great Leveling would be a more accurate name then Reset since many of the people taking the most damage are higher leveled nations.


Also as stated before NPO doesn't have the high end nations (even in the post war world) to be a serious military threat by themselves and most alliances they would ally with are being reduced to rubble as we speak. That said with the damage taken on all sides of the war any alliance with competent leadership, active membership, and a bit of luck could see itself politically in charge by the end of this year.

[quote name='MaGneT' date='12 February 2010 - 04:06 PM' timestamp='1266008768' post='2178104']
I viewed Citadel as one main power core of Karma, and CnG as the other.

I wasn't comparing them to Vox in the sense that they started the dominos, just the fact that they were a major military contributor.
[/quote]

Gremlins and Umbrella where but unless i am mistaken TOP actually gained NS during the Karma war

Edit : replying to quote

Edited February 12, 2010 by anenu

[M6 Redneck]

On the micro level, nations may at a casual glance be reset interms of NS. NS is less than the whole story though. Many nations have lost lots of NS yet retain military wonders, nukes and improvements in addition to warchests that will last many, many months with newly reduced bill levels.

Rather than a reset that would level the playing field, this model of reset actually makes it harder on new nations as they have to contend with nations with years of accrued military and economic capital. A casual scan of the forum/nation bios show many examples of nations willing and able to fight an extended war against nations they have a massive advantage over.

The winners will be those alliances that get white peace and have enough nations in peace to rebuild fast.

The only reset I can see would be in the cost of tech, more supply, less demand, equalling lower prices.

\M/6

[Sequoia Throne]

We may not be taking damage in this war, but we still won't be in a very good position relative to most other alliances. We've still got a few months left of reparations to pay out, which has become much harder now that many of the nations that ended the war with 1k tech have deleted or left the alliance. Our tech levels remain very low and this won't be changing for many months after we regain the ability to do tech deals. Smart alliances embroiled in this conflict, the ones that prepared and have large warchests, will be able to use them to buy back infra and climb back up the Sanction Race. [u][b]All[/b][/u] that we are interested in at this point is exiting terms and becoming a self-reliant, free alliance again.

[Lord Fingolfin]

With the associated military buildup you can expect to see NPO shoot up a good bit, IIRC after IRON was released from terms and they bought back navies and planes and 3k or so nukes they jumped from #9 in the sanction rankings to #5 over the course of a week. Will NPO be its former self? No, but they'll certainly still have a decent place to start off, by the time this war is over they may be #2 or #3 in total score and in position to expand rapidly. I wouldn't count them out.

[Banksy]

The NPO will be able to jump back. Sure- many alliances will have a 'head start' on them in terms of tech- but the NPO have a very healthy infra and, presumably, warchests.

What made the NPO strong was how it convinced better put together alliances such as Gremlins, FOK and TOP to back it. With these alliances- the NPO was able to dominate.

EDIT: (Forgot to finish) Unless the NPO can get some decent friends again- there will be little to fear from then.

Edited February 12, 2010 by jamesdanaher

[Ashoka the Great]

It's hardly 'The Great Reversion' (or 'Reset') when Wonders are not destroyed. Those provide a tremendous advantage when it's time to rebuild.

[memoryproblems]

[quote name='angryraccoon' date='12 February 2010 - 02:53 PM' timestamp='1266008019' post='2178082']
What do you mean we wanted to see? This war was in no way planned by anyone in C&G. We are the defenders here yet you seem to forget that. It does suit your name though.
[/quote]


[quote name='der_ko' date='12 February 2010 - 03:09 PM' timestamp='1266008972' post='2178111']
I like having our ego stroked as much as the the next guy, but C&G didn't control, and we certainly didn't orchestrate this war. We did everything in our power to stop this cluster$%&@ of a war from happening, but why let facts get in the way of a perfectly good conspiracy theory?
[/quote]

Wasn't it just two weeks ago that your side was bragging about setting the trap? Whether or not you did it, I'm sure you made some moves to make it happen, and even if you didn't, you can't say that you aren't loving it, because regardless, it was likely something that you wanted.

Quite frankly, I expect Pacifica to return to a position of power/influence again. We haven't heard alot of them lately, but hands down there is no alliance more brilliant and innovative then they are. They still have the most members, they still have key pieces that made them what they once were, and I have a feeling that just like they shocked the world with the World Unity Treaty, they've likely got a few things up their sleeves that will once more shock everybody. You think it was by coincidence that they ran the show for 3 and a half years?

[Schattenmann]

Frankly, your theory is in large part correct, but you have applied it to the wrong alliance. It is Cult of Justitia that has managed to withdraw from the war to bide our time and expand our power while you all grind each other to smithereens.

[The Warrior]

[quote name='angryraccoon' date='12 February 2010 - 08:53 PM' timestamp='1266008019' post='2178082']
What do you mean we wanted to see? This war was in no way planned by anyone in C&G. We are the defenders here yet you seem to forget that.
[/quote]

There's an argument that no one has hear yet.

I too find it ironic who will come out on top here.

[Banksy]

[quote name='The Warrior' date='13 February 2010 - 11:58 AM' timestamp='1266019110' post='2178343']
There's an argument that no one has hear yet.
[/quote]
So because it's been used before, it is automatically invalid?

[ShinRa]

I'll just say this: as long as Pacifica exists they will remain a threat to everyone else on Bob.
The only certain way to make sure that we do not return to the dark ages when the hegemony was in control would be to weaken them to a point where it was impossible for them to recover or to simply force the alliance to disband and destroy its convoluted ideologies and teachings.

Anything less than this leaves them as a future threat to everyone not under their banner. Every future Great War would leave oppertunities for them to take control and begin conquering others again.

Edited February 13, 2010 by ShinRa

[Electron Sponge]

[quote name='ShinRa' date='13 February 2010 - 12:13 AM' timestamp='1266020013' post='2178365']
I'll just say this: as long as Pacifica exists they will remain a threat to everyone else on Bob.
The only certain way to make sure that we do not return to the dark ages when the hegemony was in control would be to weaken them to a point where it was impossible for them to recover or to simply force the alliance to disband and destroy its convoluted ideologies and teachings.

Anything less than this leaves them as a future threat to everyone not under their banner. Every future Great War would leave oppertunities for them to take control and begin conquering others again.
[/quote]
You really don't understand what makes NPO tick.

[memoryproblems]

[quote name='ShinRa' date='12 February 2010 - 06:13 PM' timestamp='1266020013' post='2178365']
I'll just say this: as long as Pacifica exists they will remain a threat to everyone else on Bob.
The only certain way to make sure that we do not return to the dark ages when the hegemony was in control would be to weaken them to a point where it was impossible for them to recover or to simply force the alliance to disband and destroy its convoluted ideologies and teachings.

Anything less than this leaves them as a future threat to everyone not under their banner. Every future Great War would leave oppertunities for them to take control and begin conquering others again.
[/quote]

hahahahaha, wait, your serious?

Its not good versus evil, Karma or Supergreviences are no saints, its purely side A versus side B. It boils down to that those with you are great, those against you are evil. Since when are those who are good at what they do automatically evil?

Its called [b]nature[/b], you do what it takes to win, and the past year has shown that those who have suffered in the past have no qualms from turning the tables and doing whatever it takes to gain and keep power themselves.

Edited February 13, 2010 by memoryproblems

[ShinRa]

[quote name='Electron Sponge' date='13 February 2010 - 12:16 AM' timestamp='1266020215' post='2178369']
You really don't understand what makes NPO tick.
[/quote]

Besides the apparent fanaticism of their recruits, not really.

[quote]Since when are those who are good at what they do automatically evil?[/quote]

When they start taking things too seriously and perform acts like the InFANtile, and GATO-1V wars. And when they choose to forsake any form of common decency in favour of victory. I'll agree this isn't a case of good v evil, it's more less evil vs most openly evil.

At least with Karma there aren't so many filibuster essays on why their side is so great, why we must bow before them, and how Francoism is the way forwards.

[Krack]

[quote name='ShinRa' date='12 February 2010 - 06:13 PM' timestamp='1266020013' post='2178365']
I'll just say this: as long as Pacifica exists they will remain a threat to everyone else on Bob.
The only certain way to make sure that we do not return to the dark ages when the hegemony was in control would be to weaken them to a point where it was impossible for them to recover or to simply force the alliance to disband and destroy its convoluted ideologies and teachings.

Anything less than this leaves them as a future threat to everyone not under their banner. Every future Great War would leave oppertunities for them to take control and begin conquering others again.
[/quote]

NPO by itself is nothing more than GPA by itself is; irrelevant. NPO's power came from the enablers. Half the enablers bailed on them in the lead up to the Karma war, the other half are getting drilled for the second time right now. I have no doubt that this second group will huddle in front of them (not behind) again and become good little meatshields as soon as they have the opportunity to; this is what stupid alliances led by stupid leadership do.

The appropriate question is: Are the opposing (former Karma) alliances dumb enough to let these meatshields regroup and form a wall in front of NPO again?

I hope not, but I can't answer that question. In the middle of the Karma War (when I saw TOP pushing people on the Karma side around and acting like big shots), I was 100% certain that Karma was dumb enough to let them all off the hook and that eventually the Karma alliances would be destroyed because of it. But now, seeing that the Hegemony alliances (minus NPO, who appears to be the only alliance in the old Hegemony with brains) were given a second chance and wasted it so quickly and so stupidly, I have my doubts as to whether the SFs+C&G+Harmlins+VE group will give them a third opportunity to regroup. They would be massively stupid to do so. Just incredibly dumb.