Declaration of War from the Viridian Entente

[AlmightyGrub]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='05 February 2010 - 07:41 AM' timestamp='1265319711' post='2159429']
Not exactly but kind of.

Ex post facto action (in the context used here which is based around the legal definition) is when one cites a past event in which their own interest was considered to be resolved as justification for further action in the present, or in a way reviving their once concluded interest for the purpose of further action. Hinges on the view of this mess as two (at least lol) separate conflicts. Polar's withdrawal from the conflict in which NSO is still party too (and note they are the only party left involved from Polar's side) concluded their interest in that war. In their DoW, they cited defense of NSO from their lingering attackers in that said first war as the rationale for declaring war on GOD. Because their interest was concluded, in our opinion, when they declared peace from that war along with everyone else save NSO, their citation of defense from attacks upon an ally still involved in that war can be said to be ex post facto rationale.

Don't get me wrong, we understand that when it boils down to it the matter simply is NSO called for help and they felt obligated to answer which we in no way fault them for, and we also understand how others could see the differential between the conflicts I outlined above differently (lord knows people do), it's just our opinion on the matter.
[/quote]

Lets us e-lawyer a little then.

Accepting the cessation of hostilities with one alliance during a war, or even three alliances during a war does not indicate a withdrawal from the war but rather simply that several alliances, central to the initial issues had reached agreement. NSO engaged in defense of Polaris and there is no way that Polaris is leaving her ally behind in such a matter as this.

The fact that a completely different front to the war opened up does not mean NSO were entitled to be treated as something different to the original combatants.. It is clear that most alliances fighting for both sides of what we shall call the original war were happy to shake hands and walk away, but for some reason others were not, citing all sorts of justifications. This is a fundamental problem with Bob, some people are incapable of allowing things to just be straight forward.

I can state categorically, everyone should have been peaced out from the original conflict asap in good faith. If you want to argue that TOP and friends opened a new war or a new front, I have no issue with that argument. Right now, IRON and TOP are not my concern or interest, only NSO. Give them peace, white peace with no conditions and NSO and Polar are gone from this matter. This will conclude the original war to my satisfaction.

If NSO re-enters somewhere, it will not be Polar's issue and it will be something that the NSO can make their own decisions on, for me NSO gets out and then we get out. All the chest thumping from Xiphosis about my children's children being made to pay for my actions do not impress me, they only confirm what I hate about him in the first place. GOD is not our target in this war, I have no issue with them being upset, but I do think they need to get over themselves, it is not all about GOD.

Be sensible, end the original war and go on fighting whatever it is you believe you are fighting for now. Polaris has no current malice towards anyone, our objective has been accomplished and our relationship with \m/ is cordial and will continue to be so. VE will cost itself a huge chunk of NS for effectively nothing. We have no interest in fighting VE tbh.

[BlkAK47_002]

While I do like you Viridia declaring on Polaris is just..........................hazardous to your health, you guys have the fighting spirit but unfortunatley in the world of CN WWars aren't won that way anymore.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' date='04 February 2010 - 11:41 PM' timestamp='1265326895' post='2159666']
Lets us e-lawyer a little then.

Accepting the cessation of hostilities with one alliance during a war, or even three alliances during a war does not indicate a withdrawal from the war but rather simply that several alliances, central to the initial issues had reached agreement. NSO engaged in defense of Polaris and there is no way that Polaris is leaving her ally behind in such a matter as this.

The fact that a completely different front to the war opened up does not mean NSO were entitled to be treated as something different to the original combatants.. It is clear that most alliances fighting for both sides of what we shall call the original war were happy to shake hands and walk away, but for some reason others were not, citing all sorts of justifications. This is a fundamental problem with Bob, some people are incapable of allowing things to just be straight forward.


I can state categorically, everyone should have been peaced out from the original conflict asap in good faith. If you want to argue that TOP and friends opened a new war or a new front, I have no issue with that argument. Right now, IRON and TOP are not my concern or interest, only NSO. Give them peace, white peace with no conditions and NSO and Polar are gone from this matter. This will conclude the original war to my satisfaction.[/quote]

It is a matter of viewpoints I suppose. To be sure, your withdrawal as one of the original and central combatants signaled the close of the matter to a very, very large number of people. Where things get a bit more sticky is due to the fact that a complication of questionable circumstance arose with NSO achieving peace in the first conflict, who were sure to be entering the "new" war irregardless of whatever peace they may have achieved or not achieved from the first, and who then did engaged in an offensive war on Fark as part of the second (god this is all hard to keep tract off). So, the question then is, does their status as an ongoing combatant in the first war become ancillary to their offensive declaration in the second, thus completely concluding the first war as a whole?


In the end its a rhetorical question. If one considers the fact pattern above and comes to an affirmative conclusion, the points made in that which you quoted logically follow. If one arrives at the opposite conclusion, then differing interpretations ensue. Both are equally reasonable, and I can see where people of differing viewpoints could come to differing conclusions, but while we may answer it in the affirmative and you in the negitive understand that it does not mean we think any less of your position.


[quote]

If NSO re-enters somewhere, it will not be Polar's issue and it will be something that the NSO can make their own decisions on, for me NSO gets out and then we get out. All the chest thumping from Xiphosis about my children's children being made to pay for my actions do not impress me, they only confirm what I hate about him in the first place. GOD is not our target in this war, I have no issue with them being upset, but I do think they need to get over themselves, it is not all about GOD.

Be sensible, end the original war and go on fighting whatever it is you believe you are fighting for now. Polaris has no current malice towards anyone, our objective has been accomplished and our relationship with \m/ is cordial and will continue to be so. VE will cost itself a huge chunk of NS for effectively nothing. We have no interest in fighting VE tbh.
[/quote]

Whatever the individual opinions of one another between Polar and GOD may be, they are of little concern to VE. Much like, as you reiterated above, your only interest here is in NSO, ours is only in GOD.

Believe me, we are viewing this in the most sensible light possible, and yes, this front will cost both you and us quite a bit for not too much reason whatsoever aside from fulfilling the pledges we made. Like I stated in the OP though, there is no animosity or anything of the like, we as well have no personal interest in this war beyond just simply doing our duty as you are doing yours, and I'm sure we will be talking soon.




Also, unfortunately the elawyering is kind of ingrained at this point :x lol

Edited February 5, 2010 by Il Impero Romano

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' date='04 February 2010 - 06:41 PM' timestamp='1265326895' post='2159666']
I can state categorically, everyone should have been peaced out from the original conflict asap in good faith. If you want to argue that TOP and friends opened a new war or a new front, I have no issue with that argument. Right now, IRON and TOP are not my concern or interest, only NSO. Give them peace, white peace with no conditions and [b]NSO and Polar are gone from this matter[/b]. This will conclude the original war to my satisfaction.
[/quote]

Do you speak for NSO then? It is my impression that NSO wishes to fight beside their comrades in IRON.

[AlmightyGrub]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='05 February 2010 - 10:23 AM' timestamp='1265329423' post='2159772']
Do you speak for NSO then? It is my impression that NSO wishes to fight beside their comrades in IRON.
[/quote]

It is my informed impression that NSO will accept peace in this matter as long as it is without conditions. What they do in relation to their allies is a matter for themselves to decide.

NSO re-declared into an existing war that had not been peaced with the same opponent. It was a simple premise to remove obligations from some alliances who Ivan wished to assist. There is no re-declaration in fact there is a simple acknowledgment of the war as it existed at the time, what NSO intends re IRON is not my place to discuss, speculate upon or particularly care about. It is his relationship, not mine.

It is my job to obtain peace in terms Ivan will accept. Nothing more or less.

[RePePe]

[quote name='goldielax25' date='03 February 2010 - 12:31 AM' timestamp='1265175091' post='2155130']
[center][img]http://i48.tinypic.com/35hoks4.jpg[/img][/center]

This war is dedicated to all the haters out there that told VE we'd never amount to nothin', to all the people that tried to kill us in the GCW and that thought they could destroy our friends before and after the Karma War, and all the Viridians in the struggle, you know what I'm sayin'?

It's all good bayby bayybe



It was all a dream
We used to read TWiP magazine
Xiphy Xiph and Vanny Hoo up in the limousine
Puttin' targets on my wall
Every Christmas Day nuke attack, MADP, droppin' bombs

I let my warchest stock 'til my bank popped
Attackin' spys and haters, givin' Polar an icy shock
Thinkin' back, when we had the white and green war machine
But no enemies to be seen

Remember the attack on GOD? yah-ha yah-ha
You had to know that we'd be here to throw it in your face
Now we in the limelight cause we roll tight
Time to glow green, blow up like Impero's dream

Born winners, opposite of Almighty Spongers
Remember when we ate Pacifican @#$% all for dinner
Peace to NPO, MCXA, Hegemony
Love our Super Friends, gotta love our Green

You're up next because our allies knew we would
They call our crib, same number same hood

It's all good


[img]http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh149/Impero55/veflagfinalrs2rt7.png[/img]

[i]-Notorious G.O.L.D.I.E.
-Smoothface Killah
-$ethB
-Puff Bergini[/i]
[/quote]

A favorite song of mine. Though I think Biggie does it a little bit better.

[D34th]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='04 February 2010 - 09:23 PM' timestamp='1265329423' post='2159772']
Do you speak for NSO then? It is my impression that NSO wishes to fight beside their comrades in IRON.
[/quote]

Read what the he said, it would help you to understand without clueless conclusions, I'll help you:

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' date='04 February 2010 - 08:41 PM' timestamp='1265326895' post='2159666']
If NSO re-enters somewhere, it will not be Polar's issue and it will be something that the NSO can make their own decisions on, for me NSO gets out and then we get out.
[/quote]

So we are looking for peace in the war between NSO and FARK, war who started when NpO attacked \m/.

If after this peace be reached NSO wants to be back to war to help IRON this isn't our business.

[Buckshorn]

I am gonna speak for myself here NpO are one of my favourite Alliances out there and i respect NpO tremendously.

[Rooman33]

VE, my friends, good luck in your venture

[sterbean]

I have to say, I am fortunate to have 3 wonderful NpO opponents who are going all the way out to make this war an enjoyable one. I also have a nice time chatting with one of them. Let's hope this war will end as fast as it started. By the way, Grub, are your technicians still drunk? LOL...have a good weekend!

[Haflinger]

Oh look, VE attacks the Orders... again.

Wake me up when it's 2008. (That should be soon.)

[Goldie]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='06 February 2010 - 12:19 AM' timestamp='1265433562' post='2163065']
Oh look, VE attacks the Orders... again.

Wake me up when it's 2008. (That should be soon.)
[/quote]

Wake me up when Invicta isn't a punchline.

[Dr hairy Ballz]

[quote name='goldielax25' date='05 February 2010 - 11:35 PM' timestamp='1265434538' post='2163134']
Wake me up when Invicta isn't a punchline.
[/quote]


So eternal slumber then Goldie?

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='goldielax25' date='06 February 2010 - 12:35 AM' timestamp='1265434538' post='2163134']
Wake me up when Invicta isn't a punchline.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Invicta is an alliance that FAIL holds in the highest esteem. We do not appreciate your mockery of our friends.[/color]

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='06 February 2010 - 04:59 AM' timestamp='1265450351' post='2164150']
[color="#0000FF"]Invicta is an alliance that FAIL holds in the highest esteem. We do not appreciate your mockery of our friends.[/color]
[/quote]


On the contrary, we give Haflinger every bit of respect to which hes due.

[John Diesel]

1. Why are your Ministers of Awesome, a completely powerless office, signing war dec's? You might as well include all deputy ministers and department chairs, seeing as they actually have some semblance of power.

2. Give me one good reason why Solaris, Lord of the Entente, did not post this thread.

Edited February 7, 2010 by John Diesel

[King Srqt]

[quote name='John Diesel' date='07 February 2010 - 01:26 PM' timestamp='1265567162' post='2167049']
1. Why are your Ministers of Awesome, a completely powerless office, signing war dec's? You might as well include all deputy ministers and department chairs, seeing as they actually have some semblance of power.

2. Give me one good reason why Solaris, Lord of the Entente, did not post this thread.
[/quote]
1. MoA has always been a position held by some of the most prominent and respected Viridians and allowing them to add their signatures to a decree such as this is a show of respect for all they have done for their alliance.

2. Maybe he couldn't be on so he had his second in command post it?

Of course I am sure as a former Viridian you know that but you probably just felt the need to take a jab at your former home out of bitterness or something to that effect.

[Lord GVChamp]

[quote name='John Diesel' date='07 February 2010 - 12:26 PM' timestamp='1265567162' post='2167049']
2. Give me one good reason why Solaris, Lord of the Entente, did not post this thread.
[/quote]
Because he wasn't available. If you want more specific details you can ask in IRC. However, Impero is the Duke of the Entente, which makes him the second-in-command, which means he has the power to declare wars to fulfill treaty obligations. We have another person capable of issuing such an order as well.

[Goldie]

[quote name='John Diesel' date='07 February 2010 - 01:26 PM' timestamp='1265567162' post='2167049']
1. Why are your Ministers of Awesome, a completely powerless office, signing war dec's? You might as well include all deputy ministers and department chairs, seeing as they actually have some semblance of power.

2. Give me one good reason why Solaris, Lord of the Entente, did not post this thread.
[/quote]

[img]http://howsyourburger.jimdo.com/s/cc_images/cache_39658603.jpg?t=1244018519[/img]

Drink better beer, your cheap stuff is too bitter.

[Solaris]

[quote name='John Diesel' date='07 February 2010 - 08:26 PM' timestamp='1265567162' post='2167049']
2. Give me one good reason why Solaris, Lord of the Entente, did not post this thread.
[/quote]Hahahahaha! You, you, you.


I was on a sunscreen standardization summit on emerald islands with two military adjutants (OOC: a vacation on the canary islands with some friends ).


You are also unwise to regard minister of awesome a powerless office, because even general member of the entente is a position of great power, if you know and understand how the alliance works. For example, I remember a lone banking volunteer once fixing the whole of Viridian Bank once upon a time, and if that is not a show of power, I don't know what is.

Love ya.
:x

[sethb]

[quote name='John Diesel' date='07 February 2010 - 06:26 PM' timestamp='1265567162' post='2167049']
1. Why are your Ministers of Awesome, a completely powerless office, signing war dec's? You might as well include all deputy ministers and department chairs, seeing as they actually have some semblance of power.

2. Give me one good reason why Solaris, Lord of the Entente, did not post this thread.
[/quote]
I respect you, John. Although with the amount of reaching you've been doing lately I'm surprised you haven't injured your arm.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' date='04 February 2010 - 10:07 PM' timestamp='1265339257' post='2160132']
It is my informed impression that NSO will accept peace in this matter as long as it is without conditions. What they do in relation to their allies is a matter for themselves to decide.

[/quote]

Well they surely fought for IRON enough, but I don't see any reason not to add terms to prevent NSO from re-entering the conflict.

[Aracto Totar]

[quote name='John Diesel' date='07 February 2010 - 06:26 PM' timestamp='1265567162' post='2167049']
1. Why are your Ministers of Awesome, a completely powerless office, signing war dec's? You might as well include all deputy ministers and department chairs, seeing as they actually have some semblance of power.

2. Give me one good reason why Solaris, Lord of the Entente, did not post this thread.
[/quote]

you have lost it john...
it was really sad to see this post...

good luck in your CN life, Break a leg (no, seriously.)

[Ejayrazz]

[quote name='John Diesel' date='07 February 2010 - 01:26 PM' timestamp='1265567162' post='2167049']
1. Why are your Ministers of Awesome, a completely powerless office, signing war dec's? You might as well include all deputy ministers and department chairs, seeing as they actually have some semblance of power.

2. Give me one good reason why Solaris, Lord of the Entente, did not post this thread.
[/quote]
Is this really all you could complain about? Sad to see you acting like this.

[Vespassianus]

This war made me to support GOD and VE against their enemy, what will be the next step?

Also i wonder that do VE and TOP coordinate wars?