Härmlin Announcement

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='neneko' date='01 February 2010 - 06:57 AM' timestamp='1265025457' post='2150262']
They also have a treaty with TOP wich by your logic would prove that they were at the other side.
[/quote]
It would be nice if their treaty with TOP meant they were on this side, but they aren't doing anything with it. I like how your telling me what my logic will prove though, would of been interesting if it turned out that way. I'm not sure how you came to your conclusions though.

[neneko]

[quote name='Methrage' date='01 February 2010 - 01:13 PM' timestamp='1265026430' post='2150267']
It would be nice if their treaty with TOP meant they were on this side, but they aren't doing anything with it. I like how your telling me what my logic will prove though, would of been interesting if it turned out that way. I'm not sure how you came to your conclusions though.
[/quote]
Yeah when your logic prove two things that can't both be true at the same time then you've gone wrong somewhere along the line. How this is still not sinking in is beyond me.

MHA being questioned by TOP about what they will do in case TOP hits Fark doesn't prove anything at all about wich side MHA had "already chosen".

Edited February 1, 2010 by neneko

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='neneko' date='01 February 2010 - 07:17 AM' timestamp='1265026630' post='2150268']
Yeah when your logic prove two things that can't both be true at the same time then you've gone wrong somewhere along the line. How this is still not sinking in is beyond me.

MHA being questioned by TOP about what they will do in case TOP hits Fark doesn't prove anything at all about wich side MHA had "already chosen".
[/quote]
If you look at what they are doing now I think its a clear indicator. They're launching an aggressive war against IRON rather than defend TOP against unrelated alliances to their current war attacking them for unrelated reasons.

My main point was this though,

they were initially asking about another front on the war I think confirms they entered for their stated CB. Also it shows TOP wanted to help on NSO's fronts as well.

Some have tried painting this as a different war, but TOP didn't enter for unrelated reasons.

[Kowalski]

I think asking an ally which side they would be on if you attacked one of their best friends is the kind of question that doesn't really need to be asked.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Kowalski' date='01 February 2010 - 07:36 AM' timestamp='1265027800' post='2150278']
I think asking an ally which side they would be on if you attacked one of their best friends is the kind of question that doesn't really need to be asked.
[/quote]
The irony is MHA chose to attack a MDP ally of TOP, despite them getting angry at TOP for asking them about it and then respecting their wishes not to. Seems kind of hypocritical when I think about it.

[neneko]

[quote name='Methrage' date='01 February 2010 - 01:33 PM' timestamp='1265027611' post='2150276']
If you look at what they are doing now I think its a clear indicator. They're launching an aggressive war against IRON rather than defend TOP against unrelated alliances to their current war attacking them for unrelated reasons.

My main point was this though,

they were initially asking about another front on the war I think confirms they entered for their stated CB. Also it shows TOP wanted to help on NSO's fronts as well.

Some have tried painting this as a different war, but TOP didn't enter for unrelated reasons.
[/quote]

Your original two points were

[quote name='Methrage' date='01 February 2010 - 12:27 PM' timestamp='1265023646' post='2150245']
I don't think its irrelevant, some have tried claiming TOP only entered to hit CnG, but that they were initially asking about another front on the war I think confirms they entered for their stated CB.
[/quote]

and

[quote name='Methrage' date='01 February 2010 - 12:27 PM' timestamp='1265023646' post='2150245']
Also it shows which side you had already chosen considering Fark was already at war and that TOP wanted to help on other fronts as well.
[/quote]

I was pointing out that the second one make absolutely no sense. TOP asking MHA if they can hit their treaty partner doesn't show that MHA had already chosen sides.

As for the first point I don't think TOP showing interest in hitting fark undo the fact that they hit cng that was uninvolved in the conflict without a cb.

[Bob Janova]

It certainly shows that their intention was to assist the Polar coalition – and in a way which didn't implicate their friends at MHA if possible. MHA should understand that sort of question because we dealt with it from the other side in talking to TOP about the need to take down IRON in Karma.

[neneko]

edited: I know a lost cause when I see one.

Edited February 1, 2010 by neneko

[Affluenza]

[quote name='neneko' date='01 February 2010 - 01:19 PM' timestamp='1265030394' post='2150314']
edited: I know a lost cause when I see one.
[/quote]

Even Harmlins have given up...what chance did you ever have?

[WorkingClassRuler]

[quote name='Affluenza' date='02 February 2010 - 12:40 AM' timestamp='1265031629' post='2150338']
Even Harmlins have given up...what chance did you ever have?
[/quote]

Or just had better things to do tonight That and I have no idea what the point of their discussion is.

[flak attack]

[quote name='Methrage' date='01 February 2010 - 03:24 AM' timestamp='1265012698' post='2150149']
So you guys already viewed TOP as an enemy before they declared.
[/quote]
TOP's past treatment of MK was less than pleasant, leading to the situation we had a month ago where MK and Aircastle were the only two alliances of note in the top 12 by ans without treaties to TOP. We knew we would be fighting them or their allies (most likely the latter) eventually because they would want it. Think the same situation MK had with NPO a while back.

[janax]

[quote name='flak attack' date='01 February 2010 - 09:14 AM' timestamp='1265037253' post='2150495']
TOP's past treatment of MK was less than pleasant, leading to the situation we had a month ago where MK and Aircastle were the only two alliances of note in the top 12 by ans without treaties to TOP. We knew we would be fighting them or their allies (most likely the latter) eventually because they would want it. Think the same situation MK had with NPO a while back.
[/quote]


And MK's public treatment of TOP over the last 12 months has been just as unpleasant. "Our members can say what they want", is always the reason, but when it's a lot of members and almost all the time it's fairly telling. Add to that former MK members saying that destroying TOP is a hot TOPic (hurr), and I can understand why there's bad feeling, from both ends.

Either way, what's done is done and cheese grater self-gratification arguing aside, I hope everyone enjoys what they've wrought.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='scutterbug' date='29 January 2010 - 06:34 AM' timestamp='1264764887' post='2140928']
TOP attacked MK, a direct ally of the harmlins.
[/quote]
MK are not allied to either MHA or Grämlins.

Remember Grämlins cancelled all their treaties?

[LiquidMercury]

[quote name='scutterbug' date='01 February 2010 - 04:40 AM' timestamp='1265020846' post='2150227']
Clearly from what i have seen you say you are misinformed.

Dare i mention the fact Crymson was specifically asking us who could hit FARK that wouldnt trigger an MHA counter? Irrelevant maybe seeings as we have since declared in defence of C&G/MK/Gre but it shows the lack of quality in your leadership and how much he wanted to treat us as puppets.

Your leadership has screwed up incredibly and yet are still trying to blame others. That ship has long sailed and i'm handing out free mirrors for all TOP members.
[/quote]

Ask WCR for the stuff I gave him.

[Titus Pullo]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='01 February 2010 - 10:25 AM' timestamp='1265037937' post='2150512']
MK are not allied to either MHA or Grämlins.

Remember Grämlins cancelled all their treaties?
[/quote]

We covered this and all we got was "They're still friends." Unfortunately no one in Harmlins has been able to adequately explain how MK is a direct ally of Harmlins...

[Omas Nams]

[quote name='Titus Pullo' date='01 February 2010 - 05:39 PM' timestamp='1265045940' post='2150690']
We covered this and all we got was "They're still friends." Unfortunately no one in Harmlins has been able to adequately explain how MK is a direct ally of Harmlins...
[/quote]

The Grämlins reserve the right to declare war on anyone for any reason we see fit. The reason given by us for this engagement was that our friends in MK were unjustly attacked and so we feel it necessary to help them in this war. MHA also reserves the right to join us in the defence of our friends as is outlined in the Härmlin Accords.

[flak attack]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='01 February 2010 - 10:25 AM' timestamp='1265037937' post='2150512']
MK are not allied to either MHA or Grämlins.

Remember Grämlins cancelled all their treaties?
[/quote]
You don't need a treaty to be allies.

From the cancellation topic:
[quote name='Ertyy' date='16 January 2010 - 05:12 PM' timestamp='1263679976' post='2109876']
The Grämlins no longer feels that friendship and allies need be tied by pieces of poorly-written ePaper. Please note that The Grämlins sees no shift in its allies based on these cancellations. If you were our friend yesterday then you are still our friend today.
[/quote]

Gre and MK are still allies.

[Baden-Württemberg]

[quote name='scutterbug' date='01 February 2010 - 11:40 AM' timestamp='1265020846' post='2150227']
Clearly from what i have seen you say you are misinformed.

Dare i mention the fact Crymson was specifically asking us who could hit FARK that wouldnt trigger an MHA counter? Irrelevant maybe seeings as we have since declared in defence of C&G/MK/Gre but it shows the lack of quality in your leadership and how much he wanted to treat us as puppets.

Your leadership has screwed up incredibly and yet are still trying to blame others. That ship has long sailed and i'm handing out free mirrors for all TOP members.
[/quote]

This is the MHA we all know and love.

Earlier or later, you'll regret this decision. Trust me. And I'll be there, and laugh

[nutkase]

[quote name='Baden-Württemberg' date='02 February 2010 - 02:35 AM' timestamp='1265049320' post='2150798']


And I'll be there, and laugh
[/quote]

Please your TSO, you have been laughed at since you formed.

[Stetson76]

[quote name='flak attack' date='01 February 2010 - 12:26 PM' timestamp='1265048788' post='2150779']
You don't need a treaty to be allies.

From the cancellation topic:

Gre and MK are still allies.
[/quote]

Exactly. When are people going to get it through their thick skulls that Gre is the Dr. Phil of Planet Bob, they're helping all of us get in touch with our feelings. There's no need for treaties when people can cuddle and share with one another...awww how sweet.

[jerdge]

[quote name='Baden-Württemberg' date='01 February 2010' post='2150798']This is the MHA we all know and love.[/quote]
No U.

[quote name='Baden-Württemberg' date='01 February 2010' post='2150798']Earlier or later, you'll regret this decision. Trust me. And I'll be there, and laugh [/quote]
One would think you have experience about regrettable decisions... But then again experience doesn't equal maturity or understanding, as your post shows.

[Bob]

[quote name='janax' date='01 February 2010 - 10:21 AM' timestamp='1265037691' post='2150506']
Add to that former MK members saying that destroying TOP is a hot TOPic (hurr), and I can understand why there's bad feeling, from both ends.
[/quote]
All I see here is: hey andyyy. You are scum, and MK will see you burn to the ground.

[Bob]

[quote name='Stetson' date='01 February 2010 - 02:31 PM' timestamp='1265052663' post='2150873']
Exactly. When are people going to get it through their thick skulls that Gre is the Dr. Phil of Planet Bob, they're helping all of us get in touch with our feelings. There's no need for treaties when people can cuddle and share with one another...awww how sweet.
[/quote]
What? This is a p bad attempt to insult Gramlins when their status towards MK as well as our status towards them has been made perfectly clear.

MK will roll to defend Gramlins (and thus MHA) just as Gramlins/MHA rolled to defend us.

You can attempt to argue whatever you want, but if they had a treaty or not, this would have happened. Accept it, or don't. Don't mock them for what they have done with their foreign policy.

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='neneko' date='01 February 2010 - 06:17 AM' timestamp='1265026630' post='2150268']
MHA being questioned by TOP about what they will do in case TOP hits Fark doesn't prove anything at all about wich side MHA had "already chosen".
[/quote]
Interesting. I don't ever remember saying we'd hit FARK.

[Stetson76]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='01 February 2010 - 08:12 PM' timestamp='1265076761' post='2151740']
What? This is a p bad attempt to insult Gramlins when their status towards MK as well as our status towards them has been made perfectly clear.

MK will roll to defend Gramlins (and thus MHA) just as Gramlins/MHA rolled to defend us.

You can attempt to argue whatever you want, but if they had a treaty or not, this would have happened. Accept it, or don't. Don't mock them for what they have done with their foreign policy.
[/quote]

I accept the criticism, I'm not very good at mocking.

That doesn't mean that a policy of making foreign policy decisions based on how they feel on a given day doesn't deserve criticism. And yes, I realize they have a great relationship with MK right now and they made that clear I just hope no one expects that they revamped their foreign policy so they would be MORE likely to help out a friend. It's telling that they did not defend their "friends" Fark, FOK, or Umbrella (all of whom were mentioned in the "paperless" announcement has having an unchanged relationship with Gre) in the initial fronts of this war it wasn't until TOP/IRON made a stupid tactical mistake and ended up being severely outnumbered did the new foreign policy really shine!