President Obama Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) Thank you for saying SG, one person at a time we'll convince the world SuperGrievances is alot cooler than SuperComplaints SuperComplaints for life. edit: And LiquidMercury is correct that TOP doesn't really have a side at this point. Edited January 20, 2010 by President Obama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choader Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I can't congratulate FOK for a difficult cancellation, but I'll congratulate you on an easier life in the future. It's not easy having friends who don't like each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franklin Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Well I know that FOK was very close to TOP so this comes as kind of a big announcement. Best of luck guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choader Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) I don't actually believe that it's necessary for TOP (Citadel) and FOK's other allies (C&G and SF) to be on opposite sides in the next major throwdown. The fact that they were in the TPF incident had more to do with circumstance (the target, the dubious CB and the fact that war was sprung as a surprise, not giving IRON and TOP a chance to determine whether they supported TPF) than any real enmity. Citadel has been a good ally to FOK and I hope that base political analysis was not the reason for this. TOP themselves make it necessary to be on the "hegemony" side in any possible conflict because of their guilt complex towards IRON. As long as Crymson is around TOP will fall all over themselves rushing to prove they'll honor that treaty sometime. Edited January 20, 2010 by Choader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyber Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 For purposes of war, I agree with this treaty cancelation. Finally FOK choses a side. Sadly, I think you've chosen the boreing side that gets to do the curb stomping. I guess you guys were right, even sides are nearly impossible to come by, and the fun wars are all over. All we will continue to get is the same old same old of the new hegemony as we did with the old hegemony, because when people see the wind is blowing one way, everyone wants to be on the winners table. Congrats on seeing which way the wind is blowing, I guess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drai Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 It's unfortunate when treaty partners drift away on the web, but in a way I'm glad that these alliances were able to recognize their paths weren't aligned. Good luck to both signatories on this tough cancellation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urmom Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 TOP themselves make it necessary to be on the "hegemony" side in any possible conflict because of their guilt complex towards IRON. As long as Crymson is around TOP will fall all over themselves rushing to prove they'll honor that treaty sometime. What does Crymson in office have anything to do with TOP honoring a treaty with a MDoAP partner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellAngel Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I love how everyone puts TOP on the "other" side while they themselves dont even want that, but since everyone else who could be allies is cancelling on them, they are pushing them exactly where they want them to be. Good sport, folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I don't actually believe that it's necessary for TOP (Citadel) and FOK's other allies (C&G and SF) to be on opposite sides in the next major throwdown. But how can C&G and SF destroy Citadel if they're all on the same side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earogema Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Good luck to alliance I like. Death to alliance I dislike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KagetheSecond Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 But how can C&G and SF destroy Citadel if they're all on the same side? The same way Britney destroyd N'SYNC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) I love how everyone puts TOP on the "other" side while they themselves dont even want that, but since everyone else who could be allies is cancelling on them, they are pushing them exactly where they want them to be. Good sport, folks. If TOP ends up on the "other" side of a hypothetical far fetched conflict at some unforeseen time, the blame for their placement should not be on those across the line, or even on TOP themselves, but those next to them instead (I'll give you a hint at who: its plain as day, its their historical MO, and everyone makes fun of them for sucking up to TOP). Little birdies posing as "friends" have a funny way of whispering in someones ear and pushing people little by little exactly where they want them to be. Edited January 20, 2010 by Il Impero Romano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzle Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 If TOP ends up on the "other" side of a hypothetical far fetched conflict at some unforeseen time, the blame for their placement should not be on those across the line, or even on TOP themselves, but those next to them instead (I'll give you a hint at who: its plain as day, its their historical MO, and everyone makes fun of them for sucking up to TOP). Little birdies posing as "friends" have a funny way of whispering in someones ear and pushing people little by little exactly where they want them to be. Or all of this political manuevering could be because of birdies whispering that some people didn't get sufficiently punished, thus still posing a threat to others, and it'd be best to get out of the way? Afterall, wasn't the TPF war started to try and display to folks that "Hegemony isn't dead" or some other ridiculousness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikz Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Considering FOK! wasn't going to help TOP when it gets the beatdown that it so rightfully deserve, I think this cancellation will permit them to avoid being in an awkward position when the next war comes by. All is well. Good luck to both parties and, hopefully, you won't hit each other directly in the next conflict. Where did you get this crap from? We would be going to help TOP when it was going to get its 'beatdown', as stated in the post you linked there. After the last conflict we needed to choose sides, so our resources wouldn't be stretched to thin in the future. As you know, FOK would and will honour any treaty it has signed. Because we were going to be in a tight spot for any next conflict, our membership voted and we chose to drop TOP. Not because we dislike or hate them, but because our paths are too different to still make it feasible to be treaty'd with them and not overstretch our resources may a conflict arise. We chose to be with our LEO allies and to put our FA in line with their FA. I personally hold no ill will towards TOP and I hope we can come back together in the future. The best of luck to you TOP, you certainly deserve it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalaskan Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Even if you play semantics with the definition of leader, It's silly to say that TOP "isn't on a side" when a TOP member was the main military organizer, and the one making announcements for one of the sides in a near war just weeks ago. I find it ironic how so many were happy with him doing the same in Karma when Grem was definitely not leading Archon's platform. Again, I guess it is a matter of semantics, which makes this, and some preceding posts, well...hypocritical. As to FOK, I still have mad love for many of its members and .gov, but know our history in which we put our necks on the line for you, and sent billions of aid to you to help you get where you are, should have had some credence. Fark and MK must have done more for you in your eyes....or not. Maybe that is why many old timers are applying, or have been accepted. Love me some Cyber. TOP decides our course by friendships, and stands by them regardless of consequences. Others decide for other reasons. IRON has always supported us, so stop the birdy b.s. They have been true friends. Regardless of your perceptions, we stand by our friends, and do not bow to mandates of moving towards a "winning side", and abandoning our friends. I am glad this has happened, as it tells us who our true friends are and have been. This is akin to TSO doing the same cancellation in a year or two. Because we did the same for you as we have done for them. Time changed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikz Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I find it ironic how so many were happy with him doing the same in Karma when Grem was definitely not leading Archon's platform. Again, I guess it is a matter of semantics, which makes this, and some preceding posts, well...hypocritical. As to FOK, I still have mad love for many of its members and .gov, but know our history in which we put our necks on the line for you, and sent billions of aid to you to help you get where you are, should have had some credence. Fark and MK must have done more for you in your eyes....or not. Maybe that is why many old timers are applying, or have been accepted. Love me some Cyber. TOP decides our course by friendships, and stands by them regardless of consequences. Others decide for other reasons. IRON has always supported us, so stop the birdy b.s. They have been true friends. Regardless of your perceptions, we stand by our friends, and do not bow to mandates of moving towards a "winning side", and abandoning our friends. I am glad this has happened, as it tells us who our true friends are and have been. This is akin to TSO doing the same cancellation in a year or two. Because we did the same for you as we have done for them. Time changed that. Too bad you see it this way Chalas. I can assure there is no ill will towards TOP within the .gov or gen. membership. I hope, in time, you will see that our splintered FA interests (created over the years) forced us to make this very hard decision. There is still a lot of love for TOP in every layer of FOK membership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabonnobar Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Too bad you see it this way Chalas. I can assure there is no ill will towards TOP within the .gov or gen. membership. I hope, in time, you will see that our splintered FA interests (created over the years) forced us to make this very hard decision. There is still a lot of love for TOP in every layer of FOK membership. Right. I'm very glad Chalaskan said what I've been thinking. TOP put its $@! on the line for FOK. Sent, as he said, billions. And not once have you stood by them, when it mattered. You sorta stood by their side this past war, but meh. Now, when they are getting trolled often by your very allies, and at clear risk of a curbstomp (in the manner that WotC was a curbstomp), you guys decide to gtfo. I actually don't doubt FOK's honor, as in I'm sure that you guys did not do this to pick the winning side. I do, however, think FOK owed it to TOP to stand by them when they were most needed. If after they fulfilled this obligation they wanted to move on to other friends, then ok. They would have paid back a fraction of what TOP did for them. Truly saddening to see. I have liked FOK for a long time, and still do. But this is just... meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikz Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) Right. I'm very glad Chalaskan said what I've been thinking. TOP put its $@! on the line for FOK. Sent, as he said, billions. And not once have you stood by them, when it mattered. You sorta stood by their side this past war, but meh. Now, when they are getting trolled often by your very allies, and at clear risk of a curbstomp (in the manner that WotC was a curbstomp), you guys decide to gtfo.I actually don't doubt FOK's honor, as in I'm sure that you guys did not do this to pick the winning side. I do, however, think FOK owed it to TOP to stand by them when they were most needed. If after they fulfilled this obligation they wanted to move on to other friends, then ok. They would have paid back a fraction of what TOP did for them. Truly saddening to see. I have liked FOK for a long time, and still do. But this is just... meh. Good, in your opinion friendship can be bought. I will keep that in mind whenever I need VA at my side. IMHO we always stood by TOP, but as I've explained above, we needed to make a decision. Again, too bad people see it like we've betrayed TOP, whilst this was very very hard for us to do, and it hurts me to see people making assumptions or trying to get 'the hating' going between TOP and FOK, while we still love them. Edited January 20, 2010 by erikz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telchar Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 There is still a lot of love for TOP in every layer of FOK membership. And vice versa. I know this was a hard decision and can only hope we can get back together at some point in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meer Republic Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I find it ironic how so many were happy with him doing the same in Karma when Grem was definitely not leading Archon's platform. Again, I guess it is a matter of semantics, which makes this, and some preceding posts, well...hypocritical. As to FOK, I still have mad love for many of its members and .gov, but know our history in which we put our necks on the line for you, and sent billions of aid to you to help you get where you are, should have had some credence. Fark and MK must have done more for you in your eyes....or not. Maybe that is why many old timers are applying, or have been accepted. Love me some Cyber. TOP decides our course by friendships, and stands by them regardless of consequences. Others decide for other reasons. IRON has always supported us, so stop the birdy b.s. They have been true friends. Regardless of your perceptions, we stand by our friends, and do not bow to mandates of moving towards a "winning side", and abandoning our friends. I am glad this has happened, as it tells us who our true friends are and have been. This is akin to TSO doing the same cancellation in a year or two. Because we did the same for you as we have done for them. Time changed that. Ouch, that could have been handled better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojiras ajeridas Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Right. I'm very glad Chalaskan said what I've been thinking. TOP put its $@! on the line for FOK. Sent, as he said, billions. And not once have you stood by them, when it mattered. You sorta stood by their side this past war, but meh. Now, when they are getting trolled often by your very allies, and at clear risk of a curbstomp (in the manner that WotC was a curbstomp), you guys decide to gtfo.I actually don't doubt FOK's honor, as in I'm sure that you guys did not do this to pick the winning side. I do, however, think FOK owed it to TOP to stand by them when they were most needed. If after they fulfilled this obligation they wanted to move on to other friends, then ok. They would have paid back a fraction of what TOP did for them. Truly saddening to see. I have liked FOK for a long time, and still do. But this is just... meh. FOK cancelled a treaty. FOK didn't cancel friendship. And because of this it is very early to say that FOK is betraying us with this step. Only time will show what this now treatyless friendship is worth - and I'm confident that FOK will pay back the favours we did for them when they have the opportunity. You don't need a MDP to be friends. And you can be good friends also when fighting on different sides of a war - I think TOP and IRON showed that in the Karma war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiss Goodbye Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) I repeat what I said on page 1. We are still friends. Some members are always gonna be bitter but they are clearly not the majority. Edited January 20, 2010 by Kiss Goodbye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oinkoink12 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) Editted for clarification This post is only to show how stupid the original post was, and to respond in the same manner. I'm sorry if people didnt get this o/ TOP I find it ironic how so many were happy with him doing the same in Karma when Grem was definitely not leading Archon's platform. Again, I guess it is a matter of semantics, which makes this, and some preceding posts, well...hypocritical. its the same with wartime CB"s the attacking side thinks its the best CB ever, and the defending side thinks its the worst As to FOK, I still have mad love for many of its members and .gov, but know our history in which we put our necks on the line for you, and sent billions of aid to you to help you get where you are, should have had some credence. We have allways had our necks on the line for you "when you needed it". And if it helps ill let some1 send 3 mil in your direction next week. You have alot of credence but your choiche of choosing 1 ally for alot others is not working well for your (ex)allies Fark and MK must have done more for you in your eyes....or not. Let me return that witty comment IRON must have done more for you in your eyes....or not. Maybe that is why many old timers are applying, or have been accepted. Love me some Cyber. Maybe it is, maybe its the lack of FA changes that they feel comfortable with. TOP decides our course by friendships, and stands by them regardless of consequences. Others decide for other reasons. TOP deciding a course, thats a contradictio in terminis. You dont decide anything, you wait till your partners make the choice for you, and if its the bad choice you complain about how little credence you get. IRON has always supported us, so stop the birdy b.s. They have been true friends. Yeah and we havent, we've never stood by you. Regardless of your perceptions, we stand by our friends, and do not bow to mandates of moving towards a "winning side", and abandoning our friends. You stand by 1 friend so alot other friends are forced to cancel their treaty's with you (gremlins, FOK, Kronos and whatever is still to come) I am glad this has happened, as it tells us who our true friends are and have been. If you feel that the treaty is the only thing related to your friendship, I am also glad this happend, cause it shows us how TOP value's friendships. This is akin to TSO doing the same cancellation in a year or two. Because we did the same for you as we have done for them. Time changed that. This will prolly happen as it takes TOP atleast 3 years to make up their FA policy so I'm quite sure you guys arent done in 1/2. Also Timbaland <3 Edited January 20, 2010 by oinkoink12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinnai Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I wish FOK good luck in their FA pursuits. While we're no longer treatied I hope we can still have a level of friendship and respect that transcends that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellAngel Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 If you feel that the treaty is the only thing related to your friendship, I am also glad this happend, cause it shows us how TOP value's friendships. Hey dont get unfair. (Obligatory one member != whole alliance statement) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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