Karma is the new Hegemony?

[Cataduanes]

hi ODN, thought we were cool about not flaming each other?

I saw no offical agreement to that effect, i got the impression that sentiment was purely down to the individual and in that context Banksy made a personal comment..hence no need to drag ODN into any of this

[Kroknia]

I think the key here is that there is no central power point to become the new hegemonic force. It just so happened, as the former coalition was at each others throats not thinking of any retribution against the former "Hegemony", that a CB landed in someones lap. Sorry, this is really not a new hegemonic force, because it has never had a cohesive center point. To deny that this political climate, ignoring the last few days, is anything but separate power groups working towards their own interests even when they conflict with other groups, is simple ignorance. A hegemony implies a group that has dominance over others. In this case, no group has any dominance over others, it just happens a lot of different groups will team up for a short time when all their interests coincide with one another, as is the case now and was the case in the Karma war.

[shahenshah]

No one here thinks there is yet a Hegemony at this moment in time, the war thrusted is not a 'hegemonic' force just yet, but as we have all been enlightened by the righteousness of the previous war, people will be cautious that no new Hegemony is allowed to be formed from any corner of the world. Its an 'attempt' towards that given the flimsy nature of the CB. We can see the bawws, the baits and taunts from one side in particular that the war has not yet expanded, the same side has refused any diplomatic overtures before and after the war.

Edited December 30, 2009 by shahenshah

[MadScotII]

No they are not the new Hegemony - there will never be a new one, although the nWo is no different from the old, but anyone who thought it would be are idiots.

Although Athens' actions are in no way different from Valhalla, TPF or GGA with regards to hiding behind true powers while taking out their or their motherlands enemies. The difference is who that power/block is. For the three old timers it was NPO (we all know it, and I have to admit it was fun ) now it is just MK or CnG etc. Have fun with it, but for the love of god remember why you "supposedly" stood up to the NPO when it comes to the end of it.

[AirMe]

You have solidified your position as one of the worst posters in the game, but really you had done that a while ago. Honestly, this is the first war in about 2 years where both sides could make an GOOD argument for being right. So instead of stupid arguments like this, should be having real ones over the issue.

As my friend from the Gremlins said, Karma was a war time coalition and does not exist. For proof you can look at the recent NSO/DF incident. Both were part of Karma. You can look at Athens vs Knights of Ni! incident. Hell you can look at the confrontation I had with Londo over a raiding incident as more precedence that Karma doesn't exist.

You people who keep shouting Karma this and Karma that need to have your heads examined. No one called ~ , ~ after the war. No one called The Coalition, The Coalition after the noCB war.

EDIT: Now I know why IRON never posts. I am convinced that Shan is the only one who can put together a coherent thought and speak it intelligently.

Edited December 30, 2009 by AirMe

[Monster]

Don't make threads like this.

[Lennox]

This thread is worthy of a facepalm.

So is your alliance.

[Tromp]

I think Archon explained this one pretty well in his topic in the AI section of the OWF.

[MadScotII]

You have solidified your position as one of the worst posters in the game, but really you had done that a while ago. Honestly, this is the first war in about 2 years where both sides could make an GOOD argument for being right. So instead of stupid arguments like this, should be having real ones over the issue.

As my friend from the Gremlins said, Karma was a war time coalition and does not exist. For proof you can look at the recent NSO/DF incident. Both were part of Karma. You can look at Athens vs Knights of Ni! incident. Hell you can look at the confrontation I had with Londo over a raiding incident as more precedence that Karma doesn't exist.

You people who keep shouting Karma this and Karma that need to have your heads examined. No one called ~ , ~ after the war. No one called The Coalition, The Coalition after the noCB war.

EDIT: Now I know why IRON never posts. I am convinced that Shan is the only one who can put together a coherent thought and speak it intelligently.

Thanks for calling every poster in here an idiot. Next time keep the insults to yourself cause they're not really nice

You are right, the coalition formally known as Karma is dead while at the same time The Hegemony is dead, as the creaters of that name no longer exist. Just a shame certain people cannot let bygones be bygones - just means some people get to blow some things up - or moan about the fact people have far more important things than their nation to worry about at this time of year.

Also, why n gods name would you if this is going to be a glorious war, with both sides actually possibly being in the right would you want to argue over it and spoil it via the forums, when it doesn't matter who puts out the better argument as it will be the victors who decide who was right.

Less bawwing, more fighting - and that includes those bawwing at TPFs allies not marching in yet - ffs, only TPF have that right and they're cool with it.

EDIT: To add in quote replying too

Edited December 30, 2009 by MadScotsman

[ihateaaron]

You have solidified your position as one of the worst posters in the game, but really you had done that a while ago. Honestly, this is the first war in about 2 years where both sides could make an GOOD argument for being right. So instead of stupid arguments like this, should be having real ones over the issue.

As my friend from the Gremlins said, Karma was a war time coalition and does not exist. For proof you can look at the recent NSO/DF incident. Both were part of Karma. You can look at Athens vs Knights of Ni! incident. Hell you can look at the confrontation I had with Londo over a raiding incident as more precedence that Karma doesn't exist.

You people who keep shouting Karma this and Karma that need to have your heads examined. No one called ~ , ~ after the war. No one called The Coalition, The Coalition after the noCB war.

EDIT: Now I know why IRON never posts. I am convinced that Shan is the only one who can put together a coherent thought and speak it intelligently.

Congrats Shah! Your place is secure.

AirMe,

I will completely agree with your first point. This is the first war in a while where both sides could make the good argument to be right. Unfortunately any posts I have seen trying to discuss the real topic immediately disintegrate into a "NO U" type flame war.

Karma is no more. That is my opinion as well. But as someone wiser than I stated some people don't know yet what to call this group. The connections to the Karma war, the CB coming from that time frame, and the people involved make it easy to just label them as part of Karma. There are a lot of people jumping to that conclusion, not just Shah saying it. Yes there is fighting within people who were formerly part of Karma, and that is why I will concede that this is not Karma, however, there is obvious links to why some people still want to call it that.

And as for your edit. I never post on here because people from my allies will most likely just nod and agree, or throw a hail, while people on "the other side" will just pick apart my posts and flame away. That is a sentiment that a lot of people I have talked to in IRON share. The OWF is a scary place. Posts here often do more harm than good, and the trolls are only nourished by every letter you type.

With that I will bid you a good day sir and be on my way.

[avernite]

You have solidified your position as one of the worst posters in the game, but really you had done that a while ago. Honestly, this is the first war in about 2 years where both sides could make an GOOD argument for being right. So instead of stupid arguments like this, should be having real ones over the issue.

WoTC, Karma...

It's the first time in maybe 3/4th of a year since there's not been a major war for that time.

Now, as to if Karma is the new Hegemony? No, because those names were just war-time coalitions. Supercomplaints is using some tactics that the karma war supposedly fought against, but only the most wide-eyed idealist needed this war to be convinced that was NOT the point of Karma. The point was apparently more to defeat their enemies (gosh) and the fact that a multi-polar world developed is mostly down to how much was needed to defeat the 'Hegemony', namely a combination of 4 equally powerful blocs and hangers-on.

[lamuella]

Congrats Shah! Your place is secure.

AirMe,

I will completely agree with your first point. This is the first war in a while where both sides could make the good argument to be right. Unfortunately any posts I have seen trying to discuss the real topic immediately disintegrate into a "NO U" type flame war.

Karma is no more. That is my opinion as well. But as someone wiser than I stated some people don't know yet what to call this group. The connections to the Karma war, the CB coming from that time frame, and the people involved make it easy to just label them as part of Karma. There are a lot of people jumping to that conclusion, not just Shah saying it. Yes there is fighting within people who were formerly part of Karma, and that is why I will concede that this is not Karma, however, there is obvious links to why some people still want to call it that.

And as for your edit. I never post on here because people from my allies will most likely just nod and agree, or throw a hail, while people on "the other side" will just pick apart my posts and flame away. That is a sentiment that a lot of people I have talked to in IRON share. The OWF is a scary place. Posts here often do more harm than good, and the trolls are only nourished by every letter you type.

With that I will bid you a good day sir and be on my way.

you might want to resize your sig there.

[ihateaaron]

you might want to resize your sig there.

Thank you kind sir. I was still playing with that.

It is now fixed, and since that is all you had to address, thank you.

[Tautology]

So this funny little guy shahenshah made a post that started with "So this wall-of-text guy Neverender made a post ..."

... and my eyes immediately glazed over.

I could overlook your irritating style if you'd given us some content but do us all a favor and try not to write in such hackneyed clichés.

[junkahoolik]

You have solidified your position as one of the worst posters in the game, but really you had done that a while ago. Honestly, this is the first war in about 2 years where both sides could make an GOOD argument for being right. So instead of stupid arguments like this, should be having real ones over the issue.

As my friend from the Gremlins said, Karma was a war time coalition and does not exist. For proof you can look at the recent NSO/DF incident. Both were part of Karma. You can look at Athens vs Knights of Ni! incident. Hell you can look at the confrontation I had with Londo over a raiding incident as more precedence that Karma doesn't exist.

You people who keep shouting Karma this and Karma that need to have your heads examined. No one called ~ , ~ after the war. No one called The Coalition, The Coalition after the noCB war.

EDIT: Now I know why IRON never posts. I am convinced that Shan is the only one who can put together a coherent thought and speak it intelligently.

it's not about KARMA. it's about the fact that before the KARMA war we tried to warn you all. if you go to war alongside hypocrites for hypocritical reasons, then expect them to turn the hypocrisy against you. which will happen soon, i think everybody knows it. now, if you really wanted to act all righteous, you should have done it the proper way, the way you think the world should have been run. that's the only way to break a chain of any sorts. did anyone listen?? no... well, now enjoy the fireworks.

as for why IRON isn't posting much, let me say this: when someone who posts is greeted by 10 messages of "baaaaaaw" and "no U" from people who didn't even bother to get their facts straight from someone who knows more than they do, it really cuts their mood. but hypocrites and kids feel right at home here i guess... so enjoy

[Prime minister Johns]

Basic human greed was is much of a motivating factor as "moral outrage" when looking at for the motivation behind the karma war.

So it is inevitable that some people will eventually attempt to form a new hegemony with themselves at the top.

Because they did not really object to the idea of a hegemony as much the objected to NPO running it and not them.

[AirMe]

The "YOU ARE RUINING THE GAME!" battle cry didn't work for The League or AEGIS and it isn't working here. Honestly the game is an interesting place right now where anything can happen. Seriously, lets enjoy this time.

EDIT: My apologies to the good IRON posters here, there clearly are more of you than just Shan.

Edited December 30, 2009 by AirMe

[junkahoolik]

The "YOU ARE RUINING THE GAME!" battle cry didn't work for The League or AEGIS and it isn't working here. Honestly the game is an interesting place right now where anything can happen. Seriously, lets enjoy this time.

EDIT: My apologies to the good IRON posters here, there clearly are more of you than just Shan.

what "you are ruining the game!!" battlecry??

[shahenshah]

You have solidified your position as one of the worst posters in the game, but really you had done that a while ago. Honestly, this is the first war in about 2 years where both sides could make an GOOD argument for being right. So instead of stupid arguments like this, should be having real ones over the issue.

As my friend from the Gremlins said, Karma was a war time coalition and does not exist. For proof you can look at the recent NSO/DF incident. Both were part of Karma. You can look at Athens vs Knights of Ni! incident. Hell you can look at the confrontation I had with Londo over a raiding incident as more precedence that Karma doesn't exist.

You people who keep shouting Karma this and Karma that need to have your heads examined. No one called ~ , ~ after the war. No one called The Coalition, The Coalition after the noCB war.

EDIT: Now I know why IRON never posts. I am convinced that Shan is the only one who can put together a coherent thought and speak it intelligently.

Have you actually even read the OP where I said 'elements' formerly part of Karma? and 'not' Karma?, Also, as for worst poster, make me a sig if you're down? I really care. Now whether argument for war is GOOD or not is a matter of personal perspective and I disagree with yours.

So this funny little guy shahenshah made a post that started with "So this wall-of-text guy Neverender made a post ..."

... and my eyes immediately glazed over.

I could overlook your irritating style if you'd given us some content but do us all a favor and try not to write in such hackneyed clichés.

Perhaps you could have posted some content? Also thanks for the Compliments

Edited December 30, 2009 by shahenshah

[Dochartaigh]

So this wall-of-text guy Neverender made a post all pissed about people using the name 'Karma' to define their side. First I was going to post 'Cool Story Sis, we'll call you whatever we want to', but then I thought about it for a moment, and as you know with Neverender, he has an absolutely brilliant mind (>Newton) so I thought, mayyybe, Neverender is right, their side is not Karma, it does not contain all Karma elements, but certain the side that is active in war included members that were all in Karma, anyway is this subset of Karma infact Hegemony-in-making?

Now, lets be fair, alot of people have suggested its only natural a powerful side will attempt to Hegemonize, it might be that? I mean the blatant taunting and baiting is all there, Some self-declared Tom, Grandmasters and Harrys' have even made desperate attempts, (but a good one, o\) to bait the other side in. People have also linked years old Hegemony crimes to say 'No U's' etc.

*Edit: Some posters make a good point, Karma is no more, the right word, rather elements initiating the war that were all elements within Karma. Lord Razzy makes a good point, one side consists completely of Karma elements, while the other side has few Karma elements, similar to how Karma included few elements of former Hegemony on one side and other side consisting of completely former Hegemony elements.

Anyway,

Is it a purposeful attempt to Hegemonize?

Is it just that the 6 month old CB naively appeared and has put the line-ups in that order?

Is it the natural order of things? No one to blame, but its only logical that a powerful side consolidates it power through whatever means and justifiy it by whatever means?

on the first point, only 3 out of the 4 alliances were in Karma. \m/ did not exist at the time of Karma.

onto being the new hegemony- the argument you have is there is noCB. except for the fact that the CB is something that has been established as a valid CB since time immemorial on CN. espionage or the attempted destruction of an alliance are both considered direct threats upon an alliance and have always warranted war.

now you point out that it was already during a war and use a peace treaty where the wording states that TPF surrendered to all of Karma. well that is all fine and dandy except:

1) iirc NPO surrendered on July 16th. that was the only reason why TPF was still in the war was due to NPO not getting peace. yet TPF did not take peace immediately and continued putting their plan into action after NPO had accepted peace.... thus, it appears that TPF was targeting Athens for reasons outside of the Karma war and NPO getting peace. TPF did not know ZH abandoned the plan until Aug 2nd.

2) if this was so justified since it was during war, why did TPF never come clean about it? fact is, from what i have seen, most posted that it was because TPF would either not receive peace as quickly or receive harsher reps or something. so in essence ya'll saying that TPF would be punished for their actions... so if they were to receive punishment and knew they would if they came clean, how does that make their actions justified?

3) so, if TPF wanted to escape punishment they do not mention it and sign a peace treaty. why does that mean that they get to escape punishment now? since ya'll seem to love to do this: a murderer confesses to 1 murder and gets a sentence of 20 years. he serves all 20 and gets out but then is found of a 2nd murder that had occurred around the same time as the first murder, does he get off scot free to that since he was already convicted of the other murder and finished his sentence? no. he goes to jail again and gets punished for that crime as well. Point is not that what TPF did is comparable to murder but that regardless of being found guilty and sentenced for other crimes, they committed a new crime and will be held accountable for said crime. had they come clean they may have only had to pay reps to Athens and/or RoK for their plan, now they suffer war because they refused to come forward.

4) diplomacy- why is only Athens held to this? TPF had 5 months to come clean and use diplomacy and never did. 5 whole months. that according to ya'll, is a long time.... yet they never did. not once. none. no diplomacy whatsoever from TPF regarding this matter. so please, if TPF does not have to use diplomacy, why does Athens?

5) comparing Athens/RoK and their friends to Heg is just plain stupid. comparing them to Karma is just plain stupid. frankly, if they were Heg, they would have used the Preemptive strike method they developed instead of continuing to wait for TPF's allies to finally come out of the woodwork. Athens/RoK/GOD/\m/ would have had the most horrible individual terms (remember TPF's use of OOC crap in their individual terms to NoV), yet these terms are amongst the best individual terms ever seen. not to mention, the Heg typically waited a week or two until individual terms were given, this was done in what- 2 days..... yeah, Athens/RoK/GOD/\m/ totally Hegging it up ya'll......

[Ejayrazz]

I lol'd at the op. God I mis you poodleface.

It is clear this isn't Karma, people just use the word karma to piss people off. This is what we live in - selfish moronic attitudes which are only done to get the other upset. The problem is it becomes a cycle. Half the karma-sayers are laughing at the angered responses, it fuels them. Pay no attention to words. It is a campaign to smear a collective group, though this collective group is now on both sides.

[Sooner]

Once again, shahenshah makes IRON out to look like fools and trolls. His education or the lack there of would be better suited to a rally crier for IRON's membership than trying to sound all noble.

Granted, VE and IRON have their past issues, but trolls and bottom feeders like shahenshah do not contribute to better alliance communication.

[Ejayrazz]

Once again, shahenshah makes IRON out to look like fools and trolls. His education or the lack there of would be better suited to a rally crier for IRON's membership than trying to sound all noble.

Granted, VE and IRON have their past issues, but trolls and bottom feeders like shahenshah do not contribute to better alliance communication.

All due respect, this goes both ways. (not VE, but rather, both sides)

People from one side call the other trolls whilst the other does the same. No one realizes it is a huge cycle in which nearly everyone is part of. I think there is a happy-medium of stupidity, childishness, and "NO U", from both sides -- yet, both sides condemn the other for doing it.

On that note, one person shouldn't be responsible for the entity of an entire alliance in regards of conduct. (Unless leader blah blah blah)

Edited December 30, 2009 by Ejayrazz

[King Louis the II]

War Planning will take another 11 days James. Sit back, relax and eat some caek. Jhonny boy, Yes I am very bitter, your one liners tear my emotions apart

Whats the point to join after TPF was completely spanked? How would you help them?

I think TPF got enough spanking and actions should be suspended now. Peace should be offered, end of story.

However, if some people want to extend the party.....well, I love festivals...

[Meer Republic]

Stop making pointless threads and start planning a war.

I must say all this new ODN bravado is very entertaining.