Declaraction of War

[Sardonic]

Mad props as always to NpO and 'Grub.

[Xavii]

Xavii, we're not rogues.

We perhaps have yet to announce our DoE - a delay with our charter - but we are definitely an alliance per Planet Bob's standards. Wouldn't it be for this war, a dozen or so of nations would be flying our colours.

If we had wanted to go rogue, we wouldn't have done so in defense of our friends. We hope to achieve peace in the coming weeks and resume the construction of our project.

Wait? Zombies has plans now? Weak!

[Kaiser]

Pretty spot on.

*comment edited due to being against Paradoxian policy*

[shayde]

I still have much respect and time for Khyber and he can end it whenever he chooses to do so (from our perspective anyway), however no one can be surprised that Polaris is defending an ally from an unprovoked DoW.

Unprovoked? That's laughable.

Goonies needing help.. that's even funnier.

[ktarthan]

Unprovoked? That's laughable.

Goonies needing help.. that's even funnier.

There is a vast difference between "needing" and "obtaining".

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

There is a vast difference between "needing" and "obtaining".

In this case, you did need help and it's understandable; you only had one nation powerful enough to engage Khyber and that nation was rather ill prepared.

It was only logical of you to ask for some limited support. There is no shame to be had in using a sound strategy.

[AlmightyGrub]

Unprovoked? That's laughable.

Goonies needing help.. that's even funnier.

Perhaps your definition of provocation differs from mine. Then again your whole response to these matters is vastly different to mine, so I guess we can agree to disagree that Khyber randomly wading into this matter is unprovoked.

[SodaPolPop]

Khyber is awesome. That's all there is to it.

I got my first GoonieGooGoo today...He was cute...and nice...and-and...He was so smart...and-and-and His head was soooo big and full of delicious...BRAIIIIIINS!!!! BLAHHHH!!!

[lamuella]

I really don't understand what Shayde thinks is quite so funny or so mockable. Is his point really "Ha! You have friends and we don't"?

[Khyber]

The New Polar Order acknowledges the state of war between GOONS and ZDP and pledges such assistance as GOONS may require in their efforts to repel the boarders. A detachment of Polar warriors has been sent to greet Khyber and we look forward to the matters being resolved as quickly as possible.

GL HF Khyber.

Thank you Grub.

I also don't think GOONS calling on NpO is cowardly, weak or anything of the likes. It makes perfect sense. I also don't think NpO helping their allies is any less honorable.

Edited December 7, 2009 by Khyber

[Khyber]

I liked him, I worked with him and I'm sad he decided to go rouge, and against our allies to boot.

Heck I still like him.

Not the case at all Xavii. Feel free to talk with Roq mate, he was in our IRC channel before the war, about two to three days before any of this started, or maybe a week. ZDP is a real alliance. He thought we were a rogue group, but we explained that we had forums, and an irc channel and were serious about making an alliance. RLMMO are real friends. Nothing that transpired is roguery, and to be honest we didn't want this and asked GOONS if peace was a possibility between them and RLMMO before we engaged. We held talks with Kronos and RLMMO to solve the situation. We asked around to find if those that attacked RLMMO did so as rogues or as members before we pledge our support to RLMMO.

I know they are your ally, but RLMMO are our friends, and since we don't do treaties, that is the closest thing we have to allies. I really like Kronos too, and the Family, and GOONS I have no problems with other then this incident. I've also talked to Nizzle many times over the past months, from Gremlins, to Kronos, to GOONS, I am not enemies with him. My opinions on tech raiding aside, I am also not a crusader of morals, but hold to my own beliefs to guide my actions. I am not declaring war on GOONS for Nizzle's other raids, and could care less about them.

Edited December 7, 2009 by Khyber

[Biazt]

I know they are your ally, but RLMMO are our friends, and since we don't do treaties, that is the closest thing we have to allies.

If you're going to defend RLMMO then you might as well just sign a treaty then. There's no real difference here and it would save you a lot of trouble.

Edited December 7, 2009 by Biazt

[nippy]

Khyber is awesome. That's all there is to it.

I got my first GoonieGooGoo today...He was cute...and nice...and-and...He was so smart...and-and-and His head was soooo big and full of delicious...BRAIIIIIINS!!!! BLAHHHH!!!

Apparently MMO gamers enjoy eating brains as much as their zombie counterparts.

[Khyber]

If you're going to defend RLMMO then you might as well just sign a treaty then. There's no real difference here and it would save you a lot of trouble.

We disagree with the established treaty system on a number of things, so we chose not to sign them. I understand how it could cause problems, but we will live and try to find solutions to those problems while sticking to our chosen path. There are also problems with signing treaties, people expect MDP partners to help them in aggressive wars if they get attacked, people through around the weight of their treaty partners without their treaty partners approval to back them up in what they do, people sign intelligence clauses and often don't fulfill them because they are treatied to the other side and therefor torn between betraying one group of friends for the other, people sign treaties out of friendship, but when the friendship is no long there, they keep it well past the point as to not upset their allies or due to laziness, or due to politics, the list goes on.

Simply a difference of opinion on which way to go in the end Biazt. We chose our method, you choose yours.

[avernite]

Good luck in living up to the legacy of ivan, Khyber.

He got GGA to surrender, I sure hope you manage at least an equivalent result.

[Louisa]

Good luck in living up to the legacy of ivan, Khyber.

He got GGA to surrender, I sure hope you manage at least an equivalent result.

GATO actually, but no less impressive for that

[lamuella]

I still have the sig I made for him after that somewhere.

[Mergerberger II]

We disagree with the established treaty system on a number of things, so we chose not to sign them. I understand how it could cause problems, but we will live and try to find solutions to those problems while sticking to our chosen path. There are also problems with signing treaties, people expect MDP partners to help them in aggressive wars if they get attacked, people through around the weight of their treaty partners without their treaty partners approval to back them up in what they do, people sign intelligence clauses and often don't fulfill them because they are treatied to the other side and therefor torn between betraying one group of friends for the other, people sign treaties out of friendship, but when the friendship is no long there, they keep it well past the point as to not upset their allies or due to laziness, or due to politics, the list goes on.

You misunderstand what a treaty is supposed to mean.

The fact is that treaties are the established order of things. If you do not have a treaty with someone, and you join them in a battle, you will be accused of bandwaggoning, and shamed and shunned. Treaties are meant to be honored, and an alliance is meant to do what it thinks is right, not use the weight of their allies. A treaty is merely a formal declaration of a long standing friendship between or among alliances, or it should be.

Treaties are what make the world go round, or blow up, as it were.

[mitchh]

You misunderstand what a treaty is supposed to mean.

The fact is that treaties are the established order of things. If you do not have a treaty with someone, and you join them in a battle, you will be accused of bandwaggoning, and shamed and shunned. Treaties are meant to be honored, and an alliance is meant to do what it thinks is right, not use the weight of their allies. A treaty is merely a formal declaration of a long standing friendship between or among alliances, or it should be.

Treaties are what make the world go round, or blow up, as it were.

I think you are confusing the way it is, and the only possible way.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

You misunderstand what a treaty is supposed to mean.

The fact is that treaties are the established order of things. If you do not have a treaty with someone, and you join them in a battle, you will be accused of bandwaggoning, and shamed and shunned. Treaties are meant to be honored, and an alliance is meant to do what it thinks is right, not use the weight of their allies. A treaty is merely a formal declaration of a long standing friendship between or among alliances, or it should be.

Treaties are what make the world go round, or blow up, as it were.

It is a bit off topic and OOC, I believe, but treaties do not come with this game. They were a creation of the first alliances, who brought with them their ways from another game that shall not be named.

A world can live without treaties. We can prosper without them even if, for now, it appears that it is a risky gamble that will bring war to our doorsteps. There is no difference between defending a friend with or without a treaty. If anything, removing treaties from the equation will/could perhaps help reduce the curbstomps to more even fights. Chaining treaties have been used, for years, as convenient excuses to bandwagon in already uneven fights.

As for the rest, I doubt we would be shunned or shamed. So far, the comments have been mostly positive.

[lamuella]

You misunderstand what a treaty is supposed to mean.

The fact is that treaties are the established order of things. If you do not have a treaty with someone, and you join them in a battle, you will be accused of bandwaggoning, and shamed and shunned. Treaties are meant to be honored, and an alliance is meant to do what it thinks is right, not use the weight of their allies. A treaty is merely a formal declaration of a long standing friendship between or among alliances, or it should be.

Treaties are what make the world go round, or blow up, as it were.

I get the feeling that Khyber and his friends have taken the stance they have as an active reaction to the current state of treaties on planet bob, where huge treaty webs have meant that the world is either in uneasy peace of frenzied and cruel war. While my alliance holds several treaties (many of which I wrote myself), I can understand frustration with some of the things the treaty web does.

[Essenia]

GATO actually, but no less impressive for that

avernite is referring to something else (something far more impressive I might add).

http://z15.invisionfree.com/Cyber_Nations/...c=35901&hl=

Edited December 8, 2009 by Essenia

[Xavii]

Not the case at all Xavii. Feel free to talk with Roq mate, he was in our IRC channel before the war, about two to three days before any of this started, or maybe a week. ZDP is a real alliance. He thought we were a rogue group, but we explained that we had forums, and an irc channel and were serious about making an alliance. RLMMO are real friends. Nothing that transpired is roguery, and to be honest we didn't want this and asked GOONS if peace was a possibility between them and RLMMO before we engaged. We held talks with Kronos and RLMMO to solve the situation. We asked around to find if those that attacked RLMMO did so as rogues or as members before we pledge our support to RLMMO.

I know they are your ally, but RLMMO are our friends, and since we don't do treaties, that is the closest thing we have to allies. I really like Kronos too, and the Family, and GOONS I have no problems with other then this incident. I've also talked to Nizzle many times over the past months, from Gremlins, to Kronos, to GOONS, I am not enemies with him. My opinions on tech raiding aside, I am also not a crusader of morals, but hold to my own beliefs to guide my actions. I am not declaring war on GOONS for Nizzle's other raids, and could care less about them.

Not top gov anymore so that probably why this information has passed me. If this is indeed true then good luck to you and yours, and may ZDP and Goons resolve their differences as soon as possible. Thank you for your explanation mate, but you could see how I came to that conclusion.

[Chalaskan]

I get the feeling that Khyber and his friends have taken the stance they have as an active reaction to the current state of treaties on planet bob, where huge treaty webs have meant that the world is either in uneasy peace of frenzied and cruel war. While my alliance holds several treaties (many of which I wrote myself), I can understand frustration with some of the things the treaty web does.

Well said. I agree

[WalkerNinja]

You misunderstand what a treaty is supposed to mean.

The fact is that treaties are the established order of things. If you do not have a treaty with someone, and you join them in a battle, you will be accused of bandwaggoning, and shamed and shunned. Treaties are meant to be honored, and an alliance is meant to do what it thinks is right, not use the weight of their allies. A treaty is merely a formal declaration of a long standing friendship between or among alliances, or it should be.

Treaties are what make the world go round, or blow up, as it were.

To summarize Yevgeni, signing treaties is a life-style choice.

Also, I'd like to point out that you have just created an excellent example of petito principii.