TigerBaby Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I'm really eagerly waiting on a response. That was no demand. That was a flippant remark thrown in after having to repeat himself over and over which was becoming rather tedious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shodemofi-NPO Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I'm really eagerly waiting on a response. I don't believe I have access to the logs those came from, but what came before the section you posted? It appears that the option Tyga is suggesting is an alternative to his initial request. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denial Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 A massive beating? I think someone needs to look again. An aggressive war on Kronos would not end well for anyone. TOP did the right thing by avoiding an unnecessary war, but they would certainly have won it had it come to that. It is a good thing, then, that it would not have constituted an aggressive war. I believe it to be commonly accepted that an alliance coordinating with rogues to increase the destructive capacity of said rogues constitutes a belligerent action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threefingeredguy Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Aha! I found the logs.[20:31] <Tygaland> the other alternative is for Kronos to compensate the STA for all damage done to my nation by both rogues [20:31] <Tygaland> tech, infrastrucure, cash, military losses [20:31] <Tygaland> and peace out the war slots on whitemajik [20:32] <Tygaland> after 6 or 7 nukes already plus full attacks its going to be quite a lot Haha, I know these are out of context, but does anyone else see Tyga rubbing his hands together eagerly when they read that last line? And I mean that as a joke, before someone gets mad at me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterof9puppets Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 That was no demand. That was a flippant remark thrown in after having to repeat himself over and over which was becoming rather tedious. Really? Thats your response? >< I don't believe I have access to the logs those came from, but what came before the section you posted? It appears that the option Tyga is suggesting is an alternative to his initial request. Exactly, so again, the order of requests: 1. Force White Majik to send peace to Tyga, even though he's not on your aa, or we will "review our options" (aka, declare war) 2. Force White Majik to send peace, or pay full reps or we will "review our options". 3. Send peace to White Majik and clear the slot, and pay 600 tech. And, those logs were given to me by someone else so the before and after of that section is not relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Levistus Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 No. The position of my government seems to be that alliances will be held accountable for rogue actions if they assist in those rogue actions. That is very different from what you see is it not? Except you don't control a rogues offensive slots, and heresay and conjecture can be used to say that you aren't attempting to damage the rogue. So the very plausible scenario of active member Y leaves AA and forewarns his former Alliance mates so they can raid him and profit. Player Y then decides to use his offensive slots on others. Now his former AA mates are launching CM's, Navy and bombers, and attempting to fire nukes (although said rogue can only be nuked once a day, so they can just let the people he declared on have that fun) but they're now held as slot filling miscreants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomInterrupt Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) OOC: Also to whoever made the image in the OP: I am very disappointed in you. Close photoshop, get off the internet, and go watch the amazing movie you tried to reference and failed at. edit: added OOC tags due to topic being moved Edited November 23, 2009 by RandomInterrupt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezstar Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I'm really eagerly waiting on a response. My response to you is that I can very easily pull any number of equally out of context logs from your public channel and make Kronos look guilty. [20:07] <&Vesalius[Kronos]> You could always nuke rogue tyga too See? I can do it too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threefingeredguy Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Also to whoever made the image in the OP: I am very disappointed in you. Close photoshop, get off the internet, and go watch the amazing movie you tried to reference and failed at. Just make one that shows the Tin Man and says "Joe Stupid: Still looking for that brain are we?" and all will be well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owned-You Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 A massive beating? I think someone needs to look again. An aggressive war on Kronos would not end well for anyone. TOP did the right thing by avoiding an unnecessary war, but they would certainly have won it had it come to that. I agree with you on the notion that this war would be vicious for all parties involved and TOP did do the correct thing in trying to bail out there allies in Kronos. However, as you said yourself TOP already attempted to resolve this issue diplomatically on the behalf of Kronos and Kronos went ahead and shot that down for no real reason aside from pride and ignorance. Would TOP really want to fight for an alliance that seems to be begging for a conflict in this affair? For seemingly immature reasons at that...I've seen alliances distance themselves for less reasons; and I know TOP isn't an alliance to run from fights. But in this instance, I wouldn't hold it against them to part ways with an alliance as pigheaded as Kronos have acted thus far in this affair. I'm not going to comment on the legitimacy of either side. While i have much more info than the average Joe Stupid, i'm also biased.However, are STA and Allies attempting to set the precedent that rogue actions are to be held as the responsibility of said rogue's forsaken Alliance? This is what i see, and this is worrisome. If you want the ability to throw around weak CB's you'll have it now. It has less to do with the fact that is was rouge actions. And more due to the fact that it was multiple rouges and seemingly a concerted effort from Kronos to inflict damage on Tyga. Furthermore, the demeanor Kronos have displayed in resolving this issue is less then something to be admired. There have been wars for less carried out by your own alliance, so don't attempt to pass that judgement on myself nor STA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Levistus Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 My response to you is that I can very easily pull any number of equally out of context logs from your public channel and make Kronos look guilty.See? I can do it too! So the best response you have is as insinuation of faked logs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesalius Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 My response to you is that I can very easily pull any number of equally out of context logs from your public channel and make Kronos look guilty.See? I can do it too! I lol'd. Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezstar Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 So the best response you have is as insinuation of faked logs? My apologies. I was unaware that you are unable to read. Might I suggest you contact a close friend and have them reread the response you quoted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrSonny Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 That was no demand. That was a flippant remark thrown in after having to repeat himself over and over which was becoming rather tedious. Yea was a joke. He probably didn't really mean it when he said full reps where never asked.never....right? Haha, I know these are out of context, but does anyone else see Tyga rubbing his hands together eagerly when they read that last line? And I mean that as a joke, before someone gets mad at me. I lold three Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Levistus Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 There have been wars for less carried out by your own alliance, so don't attempt to pass that judgement on myself nor STA. Yes, because I've spent my entire CN career in Valhalla secretly running the entire Hegemony even so far as pulling Ivan and Tyga's strings back in '06. The argument that my AA makes my point invalid is tired and rather weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragashingo Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) And, those logs were given to me by someone else so the before and after of that section is not relevant. That makes no sense. Context is always important. Lord Levistus:Except you don't control a rogues offensive slots, and heresay and conjecture can be used to say that you aren't attempting to damage the rogue. So the very plausible scenario of active member Y leaves AA and forewarns his former Alliance mates so they can raid him and profit. Player Y then decides to use his offensive slots on others. Now his former AA mates are launching CM's, Navy and bombers, and attempting to fire nukes (although said rogue can only be nuked once a day, so they can just let the people he declared on have that fun) but they're now held as slot filling miscreants. I'd ask that you go read Tyga's post again as you seem to be skipping some important items. For example, when it happened twice, or when the alliance redeclared when they knew it will cause trouble. If your plausible scenario was all that happened I'd be in total agreement with you, but that does not seem to be the case. Edited November 23, 2009 by Ragashingo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Someone just post the context for those logs, I'm sure a bunch of you STAers have it, and stop bickering over pointless technicalities that are irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzelger Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 1.) Staggering would be unnecessary, because we were fully aware that Heracles was not planning on slipping into peace mode, and we also knew that Heracles does not go back on his word. Had he not wanted to be deleted for rules violations, then he wouldn't have broken the rules. He was planning on exactly what happened.2.) The fact that they were not exposed furthers the point that you can't blame them on us. 3.) DeCaelo likes using his nukes? Dunno what to tell you, De Caelo only launched one nuke. 4.) Nope, he didn't nuke us. My apologies to you if you would have rathered more STA nations been nuked. When Heracles was deleted there were 16 nukes left in his arsenal, there wasn't exactly a shortage of them. 5. Heracles rebought infra, so your argument is invalid and without proof. The argument you are responding to was written by me, and if there are errors in it they are mine, so feel free to assign me all the blame you like. Your first argument is not a very good one from our perspective. You were actively protecting a rogue's ability to continue rogueing us. If you would have been right about him not wanting to keep going, then great, but you shouldn't have left the door open for him. I confess that I did not consider the possiblitiy that Heracles had bought infra, as it didn't make much sense. He wasn't fighting ground battles after the first few days and he never approached such a low infra level that he was in danger of not being able to rebuy nukes. If he was buying infra for kicks at several thousand infra then my argument is indeed possibly incorrect. Of course he had lots of nukes left when his nation ended; we couldn't get any spy slots. Taken in sum the blocked spy slots, coordination with Heracles to keep our nations out, no efforts to stagger, and (at least in appearance) only token fighting made it appear to us that you were actively helping Heracles in his rogueing. It is indeed possible that this is incorrect, but I hope you see how it looks from our angle, especially since your alliance has a long grudge against mine. I don't know how negotiations went, but communication channels as far as I've seen have been poor and I'm sorry that this is the venue in which they're improving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Taken in sum the blocked spy slots, coordination with Heracles to keep our nations out, no efforts to stagger, and (at least in appearance) only token fighting made it appear to us that you were actively helping Heracles in his rogueing. It is indeed possible that this is incorrect, but I hope you see how it looks from our angle, especially since your alliance has a long grudge against mine. I don't know how negotiations went, but communication channels as far as I've seen have been poor and I'm sorry that this is the venue in which they're improving. I presume you are equally annoyed with Gremlins for using spy slots on such things as "Destroy Cruise Missiles?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Levistus Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 My apologies. I was unaware that you are unable to read. Might I suggest you contact a close friend and have them reread the response you quoted? Ok, then i fail to see the point of your reply to Puppets. If you aren't saying that those are faked, then you're accepting that they're valid and Tyga DID ask for full reps. So is the point of your reply to show your self as a liar, or just misinformed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrSonny Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 My apologies. I was unaware that you are unable to read. Might I suggest you contact a close friend and have them reread the response you quoted? Yea puppet how dare you take something out of context or misread something... maybe YOU should resort to lying about rep demands. Seems to be enough for others.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threefingeredguy Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 My response to you is that I can very easily pull any number of equally out of context logs from your public channel and make Kronos look guilty.See? I can do it too! Eh? I don't think there's any ambiguity in the logs he posted. There is sufficient context to understand the situation. Tyga says "the other alternative" indicating that this was not his first choice of resolutions. He then says that the alternative in question is for Kronos to reimburse him for the damage he took from the rogues. That's all Mo9P seemed to be trying to say, and that's all the logs say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezstar Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Ok, then i fail to see the point of your reply to Puppets.If you aren't saying that those are faked, then you're accepting that they're valid and Tyga DID ask for full reps. So is the point of your reply to show your self as a liar, or just misinformed? Apparently, the person you asked to read the logs to you was also unable to read. It's ok. *pats your head* I'm sure you'll find someone eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Levistus Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Of course he had lots of nukes left when his nation ended; we couldn't get any spy slots. Your MoFA alread admitted that this was the fault of the Gre, not Kronos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Levistus Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Apparently, the person you asked to read the logs to you was also unable to read. It's ok. *pats your head* I'm sure you'll find someone eventually. So now that you're done trying to belittle me, why don't you come out and actually make a point. I'm not the only one here who sees your argument about out of context quotes being invalid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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