Overrated Alliance Government

[The AUT]

But it is true that RyanGDI isn't overrated.

Well yeah, he's not really appreciated. People appreciate drama, they just don't appreciate those who initiate it unintentionally.

Any leader that bailed on Polaris: Same for you. If you didn't like Polaris, that's one thing. Keep your rating. But if you bailed out of fear of taking a whoopin' for being Polar's friend, the world lol's at you.

That involves half of Karma. Mostly those who fought on Polaris' side in the UJW.

Edited October 6, 2009 by The AUT

[Vilien]

Well yeah, he's not really appreciated. People appreciate drama, they just don't appreciate those who initiate it unintentionally.

Pretty generally, the only reason that RyanGDI was treated so poorly is because people (like you) know that they can get away with doing it. He's unpopular, why not mess with him to pass the time?

Also, how exactly did the political geniuses in the Dynomite Pact hope to "train" Ryan to be a better leader?

[The AUT]

Pretty generally, the only reason that RyanGDI was treated so poorly is because people (like you) know that they can get away with doing it. He's unpopular, why not mess with him to pass the time?

People like me? Perhaps you need to look at my CN history more. There aren't too many people in this game who have been treated more poorly than I have, and that's an understatement.

Also, how exactly did the political geniuses in the Dynomite Pact hope to "train" Ryan to be a better leader?

He'd talk with Jofna and show him how to create more fun and taught him how to fight better. We also pushed for him to get a warchest. We were a military pact, not a political one.

Edited October 6, 2009 by The AUT

[Vilien]

People like me? Perhaps you need to look at my CN history more. There aren't too many people in this game who have been treated more poorly than I have, and that's an understatement.

As the kind of person who had been maltreated, you'd think that you would have avoided unnecessary threats and ultimatums.

He'd talk with Jofna and show him how to create more fun and taught him how to fight better. We also pushed for him to get a warchest. We were a military pact, not a political one.

Ryan's problems were all directly related to not being able to create "fun" and not being able to fight well. I don't need to push this any more than that.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Vilien

[cookavich]

I'm not saying delegation is bad. I'm saying you alliance will feel more connected with a leader who gets his hands dirty once in a while. I actually agree that a leader doing everything is fail. Any shmuck can sit at the head of an alliance, bark out orders, and claim success.

And yes, it is completely fair.

Also, you pretty much derailed the topic of Overrated alliance leaders onto the topic of Grub (if that doesn't show you something). Congrats.

You literally know nothing at all about AlmightyGrub, and you're making yourself look like a damn fool. I suggest you go crawl into a hole for the next few days, and hope that people forget about this unfortunate series of posts you've been making. Maybe then you can post with some dignity.

[MiasmaCircle]

Rebel Virginia: "Shakin" is his middle name. I love you, RV, you magnificent !@#$%^&. If you ever declare war on me, I will surrender immediately rather than face the awful consequences of a protracted conflict with Rebel Virginia.

I once Fought a war against RV, It went well militarily. But RV ended up winning overall as my alliance at the time disbanded, mainly just because ofhis awesome skills of stirring up public opinion.

However high anyone ranks RV, he would never be overrated. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

[Doitzel]

Most of the world today seems to care more for their ones and zeroes than any aspect of actual "fun" from certain ingame activities.

I care.

[Corinan]

So here's where I make the call... there are names that we expect to shake things up and when shaking doesn't happen, the overratedness sets in.

Ivan Moldavi: Dude shook things up. He's a Sith and can work behind the scenes. He attracts talent. Not overrated. He's a question mark wrapped in an enigma covered in red wine sauce. He *will* be overrated in about six months if NSO doesn't get involved in some massive war between now and then.

Well golly, thanks for clearing that up.

[Heft]

Well golly, thanks for clearing that up.

I guess we should get started on planning Thanksgiving 09: The Turkey Strikes Back.

[PhysicsJunky]

I guess we should get started on planning Thanksgiving 09: The Turkey Strikes Back.

Episode VI: Return of the Baster

[Homura]

A long time ago, I heard people praising Terry Howard's leadership abilities.

Yes, as well as Ephriam Grey. Andromeda was the "hot new alliance" at one time that everyone was signing a treaty with.

[Lord Brendan]

Well yeah, he's not really appreciated. People appreciate drama, they just don't appreciate those who initiate it unintentionally.

That involves half of Karma. Mostly those who fought on Polaris' side in the UJW.

There are only two alliances that actually meet those criteria (ODN and Sparta), it's quite a stretch to call them "half of Karma".

Karma was almost entirely made up of people who either stood by Polar in the Coalition War (C&G, Frostbite & co), or who were never friends with Polar in the first place (SuperFriends, Citadel). Almost all of those who canceled on Polar before the Coalition War ended up fighting with Hegemony (with, as I said, two exceptions).

[AlmightyGrub]

There are only two alliances that actually meet those criteria (ODN and Sparta), it's quite a stretch to call them "half of Karma".

Karma was almost entirely made up of people who either stood by Polar in the Coalition War (C&G, Frostbite & co), or who were never friends with Polar in the first place (SuperFriends, Citadel). Almost all of those who canceled on Polar before the Coalition War ended up fighting with Hegemony (with, as I said, two exceptions).

WTF did Polaris have to do with anything? Seems merely coincidental and to infer otherwise is misleading

[Delta1212]

WTF did Polaris have to do with anything? Seems merely coincidental and to infer otherwise is misleading

He was responding to The AUT's statement that half of Karma had dropped Polar prior to the NoCB War.

[Moridin]

There are only two alliances that actually meet those criteria (ODN and Sparta), it's quite a stretch to call them "half of Karma".

Also, VE, though still far from half. At any rate, as Grub said, there is no possible meaning that can be extracted from whether or not an alliance canceled on Polar and later fought for or against Karma because the lines were redrawn so many times from the period of June 2008 - April 2009.

Edited October 7, 2009 by Moridin

[Chalaskan]

I'll simply state, without a set criteria, this question is an oxymoron, in and of itself. We all have a different criteria for leadership based on our personal beliefs. Whether it be stirring the pot and making this game more interesting, or being a diplomat that the RL nations would die for.

To say there is a general belief, and base it on that criteria is still subjective.

It is an interesting read, and has lead me down a few thought processes regardless.

[Bob Janova]

Oh yeah, Ephriam Grey would qualify. He's a nice guy, well meaning and moderately competent, but Andromeda was way over-rated for a while.

[Ephriam Grey]

I am most certainly overrated. But that's the joy of democracy!

Lies, you're a wonderful human being .

Also, agreed with Bob Janova regarding myself and Andromeda

Edited October 7, 2009 by Ephriam Grey

[kingzog]

Apart from mentioning myself about ten pages ago, one other name comes to mind. And he hasn't been mentioned yet.

Kaiser Martens

In my experience, no other leader has been blamed for more things that he had next-to-nothing to do with. The mere mention of his name conjures up the most visceral, angry reactions. In the past he has been more feared than hated, more hated than liked....and all for nearly no reason at all.

When NoR re-founded, TGE told us that they would view Martens' mere presence in the alliance as an overt, hostile act. Before that, Martens had to endure man crushes from Xiphosis, Slayer and others. Hatred/fear of Martens is darn-near a membership requirement in several alliances.

In my three-and-a-half years here, I have never seen so many 'dastardly deeds' attributed to a single individual who never wielded the kind of absolute authority outsiders seem to think he possessed.

Sounds pretty over-rated to me.

[zzzptm]

Apart from mentioning myself about ten pages ago, one other name comes to mind. And he hasn't been mentioned yet.

Kaiser Martens

In my experience, no other leader has been blamed for more things that he had next-to-nothing to do with. The mere mention of his name conjures up the most visceral, angry reactions. In the past he has been more feared than hated, more hated than liked....and all for nearly no reason at all.

When NoR re-founded, TGE told us that they would view Martens' mere presence in the alliance as an overt, hostile act. Before that, Martens had to endure man crushes from Xiphosis, Slayer and others. Hatred/fear of Martens is darn-near a membership requirement in several alliances.

In my three-and-a-half years here, I have never seen so many 'dastardly deeds' attributed to a single individual who never wielded the kind of absolute authority outsiders seem to think he possessed.

Sounds pretty over-rated to me.

I worked with KM a lot. He spent a lot of time keeping his nation one step ahead of the forces amassed to crush it. He is a great military organizer, that's for sure. I know he pushed for the IPC and LSF wars, but what else did he do?

[Vinzent Zeppelin]

I worked with KM a lot. He spent a lot of time keeping his nation one step ahead of the forces amassed to crush it. He is a great military organizer, that's for sure. I know he pushed for the IPC and LSF wars, but what else did he do?

Depending on who you ask: He destroyed ICP, he destroyed SWF, he destroyed NoR, he destroyed ICP again, he destroyed LSF, he destroyed NoV, he's a racist, he's a tyrant, he's a troll, and he's a warmonger. Yeah, I'd say overrated.

Also, I have to disagree with Kingzog's self-nomination.

[Penkala]

Oh, CptGodzilla's another one. He runs around running his mouth uttering inappropriate things completely failed with Tuatha de danan (it was so bad no one should even bother to spell the name right) and gets inserted into MA gov all the time. Not to mention he clings on tight to his pixels.

So yeah, there's another one.

You have no place to criticize others after that ridiculously stupid stunt you pulled off a couple of weeks ago in which you displayed a lack of understanding of even the fundamental aspects of CN foreign policy.

I personally never saw what was so great about van hoo III, he was nice... that's about all I ever saw in him, don't know why he was so revered. I try not to interact with people as much as I possibly can, so I can't say I ever really spoke with him to any great extent, but yeah. I saw what he accomplished with RoK, and he did a good job, but what he actually accomplished never came close to the amount of adulation he received, for essentially being around.

You'd have to have worked with him to understand.

Who is overrated thought is the current president of ARES.

Way to not even bother leaving your prejudices at the door as the OP said would be necessary to keep this conversation from degenerating. I don't even know who the current president of ARES is so he's obviously not overrated because he's not even rated with most people. I've learned to just skip over whatever you have to say, though, because about 25% of the time it's bashing Joe Stupid or someone currently in ARES, or ARES itself.

Edited October 7, 2009 by Penkala

[astronaut jones]

You'd have to have worked with him to understand.

Which is exactly my point, he was nice, by all accounts he was nice, but the fruits of his labour in no way matched the praise that was heaped upon him. No way. Dude was nice and that's it, he accomplished about as much as a few "lesser" leaders did, but he was liked more than most, so he was some kind of .. leadership god? I don't think so.

He didn't do bad, don't get me wrong, but the amount of praise he received did not match his accomplishments.

[LiquidMercury]

Which is exactly my point, he was nice, by all accounts he was nice, but the fruits of his labour in no way matched the praise that was heaped upon him. No way. Dude was nice and that's it, he accomplished about as much as a few "lesser" leaders did, but he was liked more than most, so he was some kind of .. leadership god? I don't think so.

He didn't do bad, don't get me wrong, but the amount of praise he received did not match his accomplishments.

I'm going to have to agree with AJ on this one. It's almost a cult-like mentality surrounding Hoo when in all actuality he truly did what a majority of many other capable leaders did in making an alliance succeed. Nice guy though.

[The AUT]

You have no place to criticize others after that ridiculously stupid stunt you pulled off a couple of weeks ago in which you displayed a lack of understanding of even the fundamental aspects of CN foreign policy.

Are you kidding? This has to be the dumbest statement I have ever heard on here in awhile. Fundamental aspects of CN policy? Which are what? Private channels ftw? Win PR points? Screw that, I did what I felt was the neccessary course of action at the time. I could care less about your laws of Cyber Nations, I got enough laws to worry about, not random CN etiquette BS.