Zhadum reveals NPO information: organized logs

[Geoffron X]

Comrade,

You can rest assured that I would not make the following comment without all requisite proof, especially given the wider implications of making it.

UEC is a spy, he is a member of Pacifica, he has had continual access to our private forums through deceptive means, he has been uncovered. The fact that an unsolicited comment by Zha confirms his passing information to Pacifica is merely the last link in the chain. You would do well to go into a different mode of damage control, and do so right now.

The question right now is not whether an offence has occurred but rather what will be done about it... curious situation isn't it?

Well, you've already publicly declared him to be a spy, so why stop now? Why not post the damning evidence, and prove to the world that you are right, and the evil Pacifica is wrong?

[rishnokof]

Well, you've already publicly declared him to be a spy, so why stop now? Why not post the damning evidence, and prove to the world that you are right, and the evil Pacifica is wrong?

Pacifica's FA team at it's finest again?

If your alliance $%&@s up big time, you actually don't want it all out in the open.

Dirty laundry. etc.

[Geoffron X]

Pacifica's FA team at it's finest again?

If your alliance $%&@s up big time, you actually don't want it all out in the open.

Dirty laundry. etc.

I'm not in the FA team. And Grub has already brought this out in the open.

[Nintenderek]

I'm not in the FA team. And Grub has already brought this out in the open.

I don't think you get what he was trying to say. You don't want this brought out any more then it already has been, because that would make you look even worse. You should be hoping like hell that he doesn't bring any more to the table.

Edited September 29, 2009 by Nintenderek

[TehChron]

I don't think you get what he was trying to say. You don't want this brought out any more then it already has been, because that would make you look even worse. You should be hoping like hell that he doesn't bring any more to the table.

It's enough to make you feel sorry for them. I think.

[wickedj]

Pacifica's FA team at it's finest again?

If your alliance $%&@s up big time, you actually don't want it all out in the open.

Dirty laundry. etc.

private channels ftw?

/ducks

[Geoffron X]

I don't think you get what he was trying to say. You don't want this brought out any more then it already has been, because that would make you look even worse. You should be hoping like hell that he doesn't bring any more to the table.

Alright. I'm going to temporarily withdraw my request for the proof, then, at least until after I talk to some people. I personally think Grub is bluffing. I'm going to find out the truth, and stop wasting my time here.

private channels ftw?

/ducks

That's what I said earlier!

Edited September 29, 2009 by Geoffron X

[Nintenderek]

Alright. I'm going to temporarily withdraw my request for the proof, then, at least until after I talk to some people. I personally think Grub is bluffing. I'm going to find out the truth, and stop wasting my time here.

I don't know Grub personally, however from what I do know about him, I don't think he would bluff like that.

[HeinousOne]

It is like watching a ten car pile up that is quickly becoming a twenty car pile up.

[porksaber]

Good news, everyone! I've figured out a way to get everyone back on subject and no longer discussing the current affiliation of a certain forum member! I call it "threatening."

/me assumes the roll of a tortured soul and enuich from the roman times named SANS TESTICLES and exclaims "MEIN GOTT! DAS IST POST OF THE YEAR MATERIAL!!!"

[Hydro]

I don't think you get what he was trying to say. You don't want this brought out any more then it already has been, because that would make you look even worse. You should be hoping like hell that he doesn't bring any more to the table.

I doubt they care. It's pretty obvious Grub won't be attacking over this, so while relations might become even further strained, they can still mouth off like they've been doing for the past few years now safe in the knowledge that they won't come under attack any time soon.

edit: (At least not for this transgression)

Edited September 29, 2009 by Hydro

[Freelancer]

It is like watching a ten car pile up that is quickly becoming a twenty car pile up.

Waiting for the Police, Fire and EMS to arive

[PhysicsJunky]

I doubt they care. It's pretty obvious Grub won't be attacking over this, so while relations might become even further strained, they can still mouth off like they've been doing for the past few years now safe in the knowledge that they won't come under attack any time soon.

edit: (At least not for this little transgression)

As unlikely as it is, for all the alliances that have been jumped by certain parties on similar or arguably lighter CBs while under terms, you've got to wonder a bit where the line in the sand is and how much people are taking it on faith that it won't be crossed.

[sethb]

Oh my god, this is just pure gold. NPO accepting info from another alliance's board? Never.

I'm sad I didn't make it here sooner.

Edited September 29, 2009 by sethb

[James Wilson]

It's enough to make you feel sorry for them. I think.

You thought wrong

Oh my god, this is just pure gold. NPO accepting info from another alliance's board? Never.

I'm sad I didn't make it here sooner.

As am I...this would have been much funner.

[Londo Mollari]

Oh my god, this is just pure gold. NPO accepting info from another alliance's board? Never.

I'm sad I didn't make it here sooner.

Oh but Seth...

[Venizelos]

I can not speak for the rest of purple but why don't you come on down to The Legion before making wild assumptions that we are NPO slaves because as a member i can assure you we are most defintely not

As for the GATO-1V topic quite a few alliances left GATO and Co. to die my alliance did it in a particularily bad fashion (In my opinion) but the past is the past lets look forward

i just said you're their last hideout, the only bunch of alliances where NPO isn't despised. if you think thats calling you their slaves its not my fault

as for the GATO-1V topic yeah lots of alliances did and it is the past but just because nobody is holding it up against you it doesn't mean that anyone should forget about it. forgive=/=forget.

[19:20:27] <+Zhadum> Best ally? Invicta probably

[19:20:33] <+Zhadum> Maybe SSSW18

[19:20:59] <+Zhadum> They jumped straight into the war with barely having to be asked

Clearly the best part of the logs.

sorry to tell you but that its really not something to be proud of

Edited September 29, 2009 by Venizelos

[porksaber]

Oh but Seth...

lol look! that cow has his head stuck in that thing! oh man, that's funny stuff.

[ChairmanHal]

It is like watching a ten car pile up that is quickly becoming a twenty car pile up.

The drama lama has gone quite a while between feedings....

[Geoffron X]

sorry to tell you but that is really not something to be proud of

Defending your allies isn't something to be proud of? I see why you wear the ODN pip.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

This is like watching a train wreck in slow motion. The people on the train know that its going bad, has been going bad, but are helpless to do anything about it, sitting in their seats, transfixed by the carnage unfolding before their eyes, lulled by the piped music being fed to them. It is a good thing to see the Pacificans out here batting for the home team instead of the stupid radio silence of old. In that, Pacifica has indeed changed, its a positive development.

About this UEC spy business, that's between Polaris and Pacifica, however, i have just this to add, each diplomat on Polar forums has access to the graphics forums, and in all the places i can see as a diplomat, nowhere have i come across statements by Grub that reek of Hate for Pacifica. So if there are indeed such threads, it has to be in a place that Diplomats cannot see it.

For a while now there has been talk of Moo stepping down as emperor of the NPO, while personally i am indifferent to whether he does or does not step down, it being an internal Pacifican issue and nothing to do with me, i would be interested in seeing the responsibility structure that comes up in Pacifica in the days to come. Please do post it up as and when the changes occur.

Oh and just one more thing, counting on Farkistan to fight alongside Pacifica? Or standing by idly as its allies went in to wage war? Or CnG being neutral? Man, really?

[Jack Diorno]

sorry to tell you but that its really not something to be proud of

Defending your allies isn't something to be proud of? I see why you wear the ODN pip.

Oh man, Venizelos you just walked right into that.

Edited September 29, 2009 by Jack Diorno

[Sigrun Vapneir]

Defending your allies isn't something to be proud of? I see why you wear the ODN pip.

When your allies launch an unjustified assault and you join them, that would be offense, not defense.

[Delta1212]

Defending your allies isn't something to be proud of? I see why you wear the ODN pip.

I'm not proud of breathing, either.

[ChairmanHal]

Look, I don't intend to continue this thread any further, but two points. First, I do not accept Griswalds was a spy. He wasn't happy with the way Polar was going and worked with Moo to change it. He was not an active leak of information or answering to NPO bosses on how to handle Polar. That was simply never the case. Or, if I am wrong, it was over my head.

As for Ursarkar, my understanding is he has enhanced access, by Polar's choice, to their forums due to his artistic contributions. He has used that access to report back certain posts of the Polar leadership bragging about the NPO being destroyed, how it was deserved harsh terms, and so forth. To me, that is not a spy, that is just a leak. A spy would imply he either entered your alliance to gain information or changed alliance loyalty without telling you. You continuing to post anti-NPO crap in front of an NPO member is on you, not on the NPO for spying on you.

Also:

[23:15] <Zhadum> Eh, doesn't seem to be much hate. Some annoyance you didn't fight with us but I'd rate it pretty minimal

[23:15] <Venizelos> haha

[23:15] <Venizelos> NPO expected GATO to help them?

[23:15] <Venizelos> that is ridiculous

[23:15] <Zhadum> More hopeful than expectant

One of the absolutely classic espionage tools used by nations in RL over the centuries is the disgruntled government member/foreign national. Unhappy with the way things are and feeling powerless to change it within the system, they seek help/a shoulder to cry on/revenge/cash for their "pain and suffering". They are all too happy to speak freely about what they see wrong with the inner workings of their government and provide a wealth of intelligence. Indeed, they will quite often volunteer sensitive information without being asked in order to thwart something their government is doing that they don't like. To make matters worse, they often aren't found out for years, particularly if the person is careful about his work.

But don't fool yourself. Someone who is obviously giving up sensitive information while staying in their alliance is spying and those that sit and listen to them knowing they are spying are conducting an espionage operation.

Thing is, this is the very sort of stuff NPO has been doing for over 3 years. I find it neither shocking, nor particularly worthy of outraged statements because other alliances have conducted the exact same sort of operation. Indeed as someone who has run covert operations in the past, I sought out disgruntled alliance members in target alliances and used others to "interview" them on numerous occasions. Far less messy and time consuming than trying to plant someone in an alliance and have them spend time sitting around taking screen shots and listening for interesting nuggets.