TPF's Response to Terms Offered

[Fallen Fool]

Good luck TPF.

[Commisar Gaunt]

Do I really have to say the same thing three times?

Mhawk deliberately wrote the treaty as such so that he could use the same loophole to attack PC at a time of his choosing. The people who run PC aren't stupid, they knew what they were signing just as much as TPF knew what they were signing, and making (yes, making) PC sign.

PC found the loophole, and used it before TPF had the opportunity. That's where the outrage is from, not that PC violated the treaty, but that TPF didn't get the opportunity to violate it.

So TPF and her allies have attempted to use this as a way to slander PCs name, I won't say good name because PC really wasn't built to even HAVE a good name, though in continuing to try and slander them, that's only pissed PC off more. PC, since day one, has been hounded by TPF, constantly threatened, constantly told "we COULD kill you, but we wont" and they're trying to further damage PCs name with a treaty mhawk wrote because TPFs purpose for the treaty was found out and used against them.

If you read my post I was agreeing with you all along but ok!

[Zoomzoomzoom]

I suppose I should have narrowed down the quote to the "tech deals" part. PC is never, ever going to help TPF rebuild, and I don't blame them one bit.

So it was only MK offering that sort of deal? Gotcha.

I wouldn't blame them either for the record. I just thought it was something they agreed to.

[Ephriam Grey]

Always liked OneBallMan. Good luck, TPF.

[astronaut jones]

It was written at a time TPF could have rolled PC with 6-8 of their allies.

No, it was not. It was written after the terms imposed on PC by TPF (which TPF still fully taunted them over, and were still actively searching for a more legitimate CB against them.. hence the constant "recruiting" accusations by TPF, even after mhawk took over, against PC) had ended, and TPF more or less forced PC into signing them. Anyone with half a brain knew that the NAP was beyond hollow.

So, what was the intent? The intent was to try and lure PC into a false sense of security, that relations between the two alliances were steadily improving, only for TPF, at a time of their choosing, to break the NAP and roll PC citing the same clause PC used to break the treaty. Except, one thing TPF and most people aren't aware of, but CTB and Twist and the rest of those guys over at PC? They're not !@#$@#$ idiots. They knew what was going on.

[astronaut jones]

If you read my post I was agreeing with you all along but ok!

oh for real? my bad. I'm doing like 5 things at once over here . Sorry about that.

[OneBallMan]

Do I really have to say the same thing three times?

Mhawk deliberately wrote the treaty as such so that he could use the same loophole to attack PC at a time of his choosing. The people who run PC aren't stupid, they knew what they were signing just as much as TPF knew what they were signing, and making (yes, making) PC sign.

PC found the loophole, and used it before TPF had the opportunity. That's where the outrage is from, not that PC violated the treaty, but that TPF didn't get the opportunity to violate it.

So TPF and her allies have attempted to use this as a way to slander PCs name, I won't say good name because PC really wasn't built to even HAVE a good name, though in continuing to try and slander them, that's only pissed PC off more. PC, since day one, has been hounded by TPF, constantly threatened, constantly told "we COULD kill you, but we wont" and they're trying to further damage PCs name with a treaty mhawk wrote because TPFs purpose for the treaty was found out and used against them.

I don't give a hairy round cake about PC rep or whether they feel slighted. I don't think they do either, but hey, let them speak for themselves. You, you, you of all people, the author of the Greenacres Doctrine, saying that because you can = because you did? I love you too much to believe that you'd hide behind that.

[Newhotness]

Why is everyone still crying about how PC broke the treaty by finding the loophole when everyone, including TPF members, knows that Mhawk wrote it that way so he could use the same loophole later down the line?

[Jipps]

No, it was not. It was written after the terms imposed on PC by TPF (which TPF still fully taunted them over, and were still actively searching for a more legitimate CB against them.. hence the constant "recruiting" accusations by TPF, even after mhawk took over, against PC) had ended, and TPF more or less forced PC into signing them. Anyone with half a brain knew that the NAP was beyond hollow.

So, what was the intent? The intent was to try and lure PC into a false sense of security, that relations between the two alliances were steadily improving, only for TPF, at a time of their choosing, to break the NAP and roll PC citing the same clause PC used to break the treaty. Except, one thing TPF and most people aren't aware of, but CTB and Twist and the rest of those guys over at PC? They're not !@#$@#$ idiots. They knew what was going on.

I am feeling very uncomfortable agreeing with you, is that natural?

[Guido]

First half of the post is pretty useless whining and making fun of motives that may or may not exist.

An MKer point out making fun and whining?

How's that irony for you...

[astronaut jones]

I don't give a hairy round cake about PC rep or whether they feel slighted. I don't think they do either, but hey, let them speak for themselves. You, you, you of all people, the author of the Greenacres Doctrine, saying that because you can = because you did? I love you too much to believe that you'd hide behind that.

I have no idea what you just said.. explain please?

[Nintenderek]

I'm sorry, what does anything in my post have to do with math?

I think what he was saying (and I haven't read past the worst page, so if we've gotten past this, please ignore me) is that the extra money that Mhawk kept saying he wouldn't pay, is the money that would go to PC. I'm sure they'd be willing to pay the full reps if none of it went to PC.

[William Blake]

Honestly, I say just accept the terms and pay the reps. At the end of the day you'll still have honored your allies and treaties (apparently Avalon can only get peace after you surrender) and PC will still be the same terrible alliance they always were. Just bite the bullet and take the peace.

Edited July 25, 2009 by William Blake

[Shurukian]

I honestly think that if TPF is to pay reps to PC, then part of the terms should be that PC pays their 120 million reps to California first, which California still hasn't seen a cent of from when PC raided the TPF protectorates during the war.

[Delta1212]

You don't want to reward Poison Clan for breaking a treaty, and you are doing this by allowing them to keep their worst enemy in an indefinite losing war that they can continue as long as they want specifically because they broke their treaty with you?

Ooookay, good luck with that.

Edited July 25, 2009 by Delta1212

[OneBallMan]

I have no idea what you just said.. explain please?

TPF could have broken the treaty

PC Did.

Those are not equal.

[crushtania]

Lets hope your idealism magically salves the frustration of your long-suffering membership. "No peace while Poison Clan" lives as a doctrine is laughable at best, deplorable statesmanship at worst.

[Lyria]

The paper and ink a treaty is written on means nothing

You are wrong. As a result, the rest of your argument is worthless. What you have signed is what you have signed, and you follow it. This was once common sense among everyone, now it seems to be a bit of a lost art.

If you agree to a treaty, you adhere to the text of the treaty. It is your job to capture the 'spirit of the treaty' in the only thing that matters, the 'words on the treaty'. Since that clause was included, we can see the spirit of PC-TPF relations.

[Unko Kalaikz]

Article 3: Cancellation

If either party breaks the pact, it is considered null and void.

I have to admit I lol'd at the redundancy.

@ TPF: Understandable position, if you think you could win out and have PC dropped from the terms. Make a little victory out of defeat.

@ Karma: No offense to PC, but do they really matter? Just drop em from the terms? lol

@ PC: If you did break that treaty and karma drops you from the reps you deserve it.

[OneBallMan]

You are wrong. As a result, the rest of your argument is worthless. What you have signed is what you have signed, and you follow it. This was once common sense among everyone, now it seems to be a bit of a lost art.

If you agree to a treaty, you adhere to the text of the treaty. It is your job to capture the 'spirit of the treaty' in the only thing that matters, the 'words on the treaty'. Since that clause was included, we can see the spirit of PC-TPF relations.

ElP, you and I will not agree much on well, much of anything. But on this we agree. As I said at the time, I don't really give a rat's anal glands that PC e-lawyered themselves into attacking us. But goddamn if we are going to let ourselves be extorted into rewarding them for it.

Stated again. Everyone else can have their reps, on the terms they were assigned.

[Kilkenny]

I like OBM.

But TPF is heading towards disbandment or eternal war. We all know PC will not budge so lets not argue that. No middlemen alliances are going to be used because TPF is too proud for that.

Why is it so hard to just make PC pay for all the tech deals? It is going to help TPF because of this long $@! war in the end. Face it, You have a responsibility to get your membership out of this war along with any other remaining allies. Take any longer and all you'll have are Bama, OBM, and Mhawk on the TPF AA.

There won't even be a need for a govt much longer.

I'll be here too Zoomx3.

Also to sum it up:

We could have rolled PC, didn't in an effort by mhawk to improve relations.

We didn't break the NAP. they did.

We could have, but didn't.

Contray to Van Hoo's statement, it wasn't written that way. His proof was a statement from someone not in gov in another allaince. Not very trustworthy/knowledgable source.

And since Shuru brought it up, where are Califonia's reps at?? hmmm, somethings make you wonder.

[Centurius]

You are wrong. As a result, the rest of your argument is worthless. What you have signed is what you have signed, and you follow it. This was once common sense among everyone, now it seems to be a bit of a lost art.

If you agree to a treaty, you adhere to the text of the treaty. It is your job to capture the 'spirit of the treaty' in the only thing that matters, the 'words on the treaty'. Since that clause was included, we can see the spirit of PC-TPF relations.

The clause of the treaty suggests a spirit where it would have been cancelled not long after being signed as such the rest of your argument is worthless. Them keeping the treaty proves laziness to make a single post or a genuine interest for non agression.

[TypoNinja]

@ Karma: No offense to PC, but do they really matter? Just drop em from the terms? lol

Speaking of Karma and its soon to be not there, Whats left this war? is TPF the only hold out?

[flak attack]

You don't want to reward Poison Clan for breaking a treaty, and you are doing this by allowing them to keep their worst enemy in an indefinite losing war that they can continue as long as they want specifically because they broke their treaty with you?

Ooookay, good luck with that.

Well said. I think PC is the one getting the last laugh here.

[Diogenes]

You would be better off swallowing your pride before your alliance is smashed even further into the ground. I understand you being upset by the fact that Poison Clan attacked you whilst you held a treaty, but I can also not blame them for utilizing a poorly worded clause which probably would have been used against them at some point or another.

But whatever. If masochism is your game, I'm sure that Poison Clan will play it with you.

As a side, to anyone saying that dropping Poison Clan from the terms and allowing them to continue their war against TPF would be a good idea for TPF: you obviously haven't noticed the vast differences in strength between the two. Very few of those in TPF are even capable of declaring on Poison Clan nations at this point, let alone fighting them.