Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

[Merrie Melodies]

I have not read all of the pages in this long thread. To be honest I could care less about any reparations paid or specific terms of surrender. I speak for one small alliance (out of the hundreds) that was abused by NPO during it's reign of terror.

No reparations, apologies, or reorganization terms can be big enough or strong enough to erase what they have done. What they did, they did with malice and forethought.

I speak for myself but I am sure that many will share my opinion.

No surrender, no terms, no reorganization, no survival.

NPO deserves to be completely and totally destroyed. Their alliance name should be removed from the game never to be used again. They lived by the sword and so they should die by the sword, no quarters. Any attempts by NPO to weasel out of their situation should fall on deft ears.

NPO thought nothing of destroying nations and alliances just because they could.

The only fitting and fair way for this to end is with their complete destruction and their alliance name removed from Planet Bob, never to be used again.

Anything less than their total annihilation would not satisfy the wrongs they have committed. For any alliance or bloc to consider anything less than NPO's complete destruction would allow their many actions to go unpunished.

I hope the day will come when NPO is no more and those NPO officials who sponsored and dictated their many crimes on the world have felt the total and complete wrath of Planet Bob.

I vote for the complete and utter destruction of NPO.

You are a disgusting leader no better than those you seek to destroy.

[TypoNinja]

You might as well beat them to the "But there is no guarantee the war will only last 14 days!!! OMG!!111!"

Well little details like that are what they abandoned when they ran out on talks and ran for the OWF.

"Terms are not negotiable" is not the same as "we refuse to help you comply with terms".

Little details to help the logistical problems are something that could be worked out... at the table, not on the OWF.

[Aurion]

You're out of your league, honeybuns.

It really does sound like you are trying to get into his pants.

Just saying

[Heracles the Great]

$70 million is a lot of money. Also, your math is wrong. Six wars times two million is $12 million. Add in a defeat alert and we have $14 million. Two weeks of war and that's $196 million. Listen, we know you're spinning the facts. You just want this war to be one giant and profitable tech raid. The continuation of the war as a prerequisite, being allowed to raid the banks that is, is just a thinly veiled attempt to cover your desire for more tech and more money. It is exactly what the NPO did to GATO, IAA, and countless others? What say you, sweetheart?

You're out of your league, honeybuns.

I love you RV, please don't ever change.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Heracles the Great

[Rebel Virginia]

It's funny because someone is going to think that math is real.

It's as real as my face or any other incredibly prominent part of my anatomy, and I can tell you that it is very real. Tell me, what is not real about it? It proved my math unlike your little friend, instead of just coming up with a random number and calling it fact.

You can only lose, at most, $5 million a day? Well, Twinkie, I've fought a few wars and I think we all know this isn't the case. I've lost well over $5 million in a single day a few times. Is that proof enough for you, cheese Danish?

I love you RV, please don't ever change.

Oh, what have we here? The classic "I'm right and don't question me or I'll threaten you with ZI" tactic? You know, the NPO used that a lot back in the day, let me tell you. If anyone saw through the lie and refuted their flawed logic they would just tell that person to shut up, "if they knew what was good for them." Seems to me like you're doing the exact same thing. Well, let me tell you, bucko. I'm not afraid of you. I stand for all that is right and just in this world.

Now, how about you explain your contrived math to us? We're dying to know. Then I'll explain why it is a lie. Because I'll tell you this, simply saying "I'm right" doesn't work in these parts. Not while there are people like me around. People dedicated to the truth.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Rebel Virginia

[Aurion]

I've taken the liberty of adding in the cost of bills and nukes into my equation.

Well, I'm going off of the logic that they would want to save as much money as possible since their banks are apparently so clearly in the depths of poverty.

Though I could be mistaken, I'm operating off the probably foolish assumption that there is some small kernel of truth in what is being said.

[Tromp]

RV, I did get a good chuckle out of your posts, but it seems we're going a bit off topic here.

[Eden Taylor]

I've taken the liberty of adding in the cost of bills and nukes into my equation.

Besides the fact that the cost of bills is worked into simply maintaining a nation and shouldn't be reflected in calculations of war costs, when getting nuked it's a good tactic to only pay bills every other day. That'll cut bills down significantly.

[Sandwich Controversy]

It's as real as my face or any other incredibly prominent part of my anatomy, and I can tell you that it is very real. Tell me, what is not real about it? It proved my math unlike your little friend, instead of just coming up with a random number and calling it fact.

You can only lose, at most, $5 million a day? Well, Twinkie, I've fought a few wars and I think we all know this isn't the case. I've lost well over $5 million in a single day a few times. Is that proof enough for you, cheese Danish?

Oh, what have we here? The classic "I'm right and don't question me or I'll threaten you with ZI" tactic? You know, the NPO used that a lot back in the day, let me tell you. If anyone saw through the lie and refuted their flawed logic they would just tell that person to shut up, "if they knew what was good for them." Seems to me like you're doing the exact same thing. Well, let me tell you, bucko. I'm not afraid of you. I stand for all that is right and just in this world.

Now, how about you explain your contrived math to us? We're dying to know. Then I'll explain why it is a lie. Because I'll tell you this, simply saying "I'm right" doesn't work in these parts. Not while there are people like me around. People dedicated to the truth.

Before I let you go off and make more posts I'm never going to read I'm just going to remind you he said this was in a turtling scenario

[Big Z]

Well, I'm going off of the logic that they would want to save as much money as possible since their banks are apparently so clearly in the depths of poverty.

Though I could be mistaken, I'm operating off the probably foolish assumption that there is some small kernel of truth in what is being said.

In absolute poverty saving mode, it'd cost about 84 mil total over the course of the 14 days. That would make a grand total of about 161 mil necessary to be back within banking range when the war ends, assuming you end at ZI after the 14 days.

Besides the fact that the cost of bills is worked into simply maintaining a nation and shouldn't be reflected in calculations of war costs, when getting nuked it's a good tactic to only pay bills every other day. That'll cut bills down significantly.

I did factor that in as well. I left anywhere from 2-8 mil per day for bills, dependent on starting infra and other circumstances. I didn't want to make it too complicated. If you want to get into true war costs, it'd be about 6-8 mil per day max.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Big Z

[Eden Taylor]

I stand for all that is right and just in this world.

You may be just, but you certainly aren't right.

[Rebel Virginia]

RV, I did get a good chuckle out of your posts, but it seems we're going a bit off topic here.

Know, this has everything to do with the terms. Here "Karma" as they call themselves (I prefer to call them a mindless rabble of drones hellbent on revenge at whatever its cost to freedom and justice), is claiming that NPO is capable of paying the reparations. They're using lies and false math to support this claim, and I'm calling them out on it.

But no, you're trying to silence me, because you're one of them. Well, sugars buns, let me tell you, Rebel Virginia will be silenced by no man. The voice of the people will not be denied.

[Aurion]

You can only lose, at most, $5 million a day?

If you're turtling, yeah. 5 mil per DA, one DA per day. Of course, that's just lose via battle results.

It's more than five if you count bills, naturally. Plus a bit more for nukes if they nuke turtle. A lot more than five obviously if they're rebuying planes and navy and fighting on the ground and buying/using nukes.

Which is why I'm thinking that if they are so incompetent when in comes to warchests, they should probably turtle during the 14 days. Not nuclear turtle, either. Just turtle. After all, if they do so suck at economics, it would make sense to cut expenditures as far as possible.

If the warchests don't suck, turtling is obviously not a great idea. But then, what's being claimed is that the nations in question lack much in the way of cash... so that would kinda invalidate the whole premise behind "WE CAN'T PAY THESE ZOMG"

Edited June 16, 2009 by Aurion

[WcaesarD]

Know, this has everything to do with the terms. Here "Karma" as they call themselves (I prefer to call them a mindless rabble of drones hellbent on revenge at whatever its cost to freedom and justice), is claiming that NPO is capable of paying the reparations. They're using lies and false math to support this claim, and I'm calling them out on it.

But no, you're trying to silence me, because you're one of them. Well, sugars buns, let me tell you, Rebel Virginia will be silenced by no man. The voice of the people will not be denied.

You truly are the voice of FAIL.

[Gn0xious Jr]

I'm growing quite tired of this debacle of a claim that NPO's banks will be bankrupt after two weeks of war. If they did nothing but turtle, rebuying nothing during the war, the most they can lose is $5m of their warchest per day - over 14 days of war that's $70,000,000 - Unless the NPO is claiming that in all their greatness they forgot to teach their banks how to actually bank, I don't think anyone would be capable of coming up with a logical argument that this would bankrupt a nation designated as a bank that has been hiding in PM the entire time.

$70 million is a lot of money. Also, your math is wrong. Six wars times two million is $12 million. Add in a defeat alert and we have $14 million. Two weeks of war and that's $196 million. Listen, we know you're spinning the facts. You just want this war to be one giant and profitable tech raid. The continuation of the war as a prerequisite, being allowed to raid the banks that is, is just a thinly veiled attempt to cover your desire for more tech and more money. It is exactly what the NPO did to GATO, IAA, and countless others? What say you, sweetheart?

Well, hotcrossbuns, he did say "if they do NOTHING but turtle." with me so far shepard's pie?

this would imply that there are not 6 wars...are you hanging in there chocolate covered ants?

What say you now, toothpaste filled chocolate candy that everyone avoids in the variety chocolate candy boxes?

Of course the NPO could retaliate, and it would only cost them more $$$ per day. If they start 3 additional aggressive wars, they'd likely be losing quite a bit more $$$, but that would be their choice. If they are looking to conserve as much money as possible, they have the control over the amount they lose per day. The terms don't specify NPO's PM nations dropping PM and attacking 3 nations. They could, but again, that's their choice.

Thanks Honeysuckle!

[Rebel Virginia]

Before I let you go off and make more posts I'm never going to read I'm just going to remind you he said this was in a turtling scenario

Oh, turtle. You don't want them to fight back, is that right? That way you can raid tech, land, and cash without having to risk your own precious infrastructure. Karma, a true Coalition of Cowards. I spit on you and your alliances in general and Sparta in particular.

Let it be known that Pacifica is an alliance of proud people who will not stand idle as you desecrate their home. They will fight you to the very last, and will make a final stand worth remembering. For you shall be recouping your losses for many years.

[Tromp]

Know, this has everything to do with the terms. Here "Karma" as they call themselves (I prefer to call them a mindless rabble of drones hellbent on revenge at whatever its cost to freedom and justice), is claiming that NPO is capable of paying the reparations. They're using lies and false math to support this claim, and I'm calling them out on it.

But no, you're trying to silence me, because you're one of them. Well, sugars buns, let me tell you, Rebel Virginia will be silenced by no man. The voice of the people will not be denied.

Well, please speak out loud, I don't really mind.

I just think it's pointless. Also I believe you're incorrect, so let's agree to disagree.

[Big Z]

Oh, turtle. You don't want them to fight back, is that right? That way you can raid tech, land, and cash without having to risk your own precious infrastructure.

Actually, when they turtle, the attackers don't get any tech, land, or cash.

[Gn0xious Jr]

Oh, turtle. You don't want them to fight back, is that right? That way you can raid tech, land, and cash without having to risk your own precious infrastructure. Karma, a true Coalition of Cowards. I spit on you and your alliances in general and Sparta in particular.

Let it be known that Pacifica is an alliance of proud people who will not stand idle as you desecrate their home. They will fight you to the very last, and will make a final stand worth remembering. For you shall be recouping your losses for many years.

I don't see where Karma is telling NPO not to fight back. the Pity Parade is saying the 14 days of war would cost "x" amount AT MINIMUM. others have simply pointed out that there is a "y" amount if the PM nations simply turtle. If they truly are concerned about saving money, that's an area to cut costs.

I for one would welcome the PM nations with open arms for 14 days of good ol' fashioned fun. Let the nations burn on both sides!

[Aurion]

Let it be known that Pacifica is an alliance of proud people who will not stand idle as you desecrate their home. They will fight you to the very last, and will make a final stand worth remembering. For you shall be recouping your losses for many years.

Well then, I guess they shouldn't be complaining about how they have no money then if they have the requisite money to actually fight. If it were that desperate a situation, I'd say most people would probably try to cut expenses, no?

It's either a lie or pathetic, depending on whether the cry of "WE GOT NO CASH ZOMG" is true or not.

And by the way, you don't steal stuff via Defeat Alerts. Just saying.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Aurion

[raincoat]

Oh, turtle. You don't want them to fight back, is that right? That way you can raid tech, land, and cash without having to risk your own precious infrastructure. Karma, a true Coalition of Cowards. I spit on you and your alliances in general and Sparta in particular.

Let it be known that Pacifica is an alliance of proud people who will not stand idle as you desecrate their home. They will fight you to the very last, and will make a final stand worth remembering. For you shall be recouping your losses for many years.

He is not saying they HAVE to turtle, just that if they are concerned about rebuilding afterwards and are short on warchest cash, they could turtle and repay reps afterwards. Nations with 600M+ can very easily fight for 14 days and still have the money to rebuild afterwards.

[raincoat]

Actually, when they turtle, the attackers don't get any tech, land, or cash.

And this, Rebel, you are showing an extreme ignorance in the economics of CN. Stop trying to make claims about NPOs ability to pay if you cannot even grasp the basic concepts of CN war economics.

[Rebel Virginia]

Well, please speak out loud, I don't really mind.

I just think it's pointless. Also I believe you're incorrect, so let's agree to disagree.

Well then, pumpkin, prove me wrong instead of just saying it. Do you have any idea who I am? I am Rebel Virginia, a great man and an even greater woman. My word is truth in its purest form. I call it ture. It's a portmanteau of "truth" and "pure." Pretty clever, no?

Actually, when they turtle, the attackers don't get any tech, land, or cash.

Oh, you think I don't know that? I know it alright, but your point is moot as it changes nothing. It has nothing to do with what I have argued, acorn squash. If you think this well cause people to question my intelligence, then think again? People know well enough to see that your argument is merely a diversion, to stir their attention away from the disturbing truths I am uncovering about "Karma."

[Vol Navy]

Mathmatically, you can lose up to 12 million per day in ground attacks alone, RV is absolutely correct in that. It happened to me several different times in the war. I was willing to sacrifice a million dollars to destroy infra, steal land and tech. I figured as long as I was doing more dollars worth of damage than my million was paying for it was worth it to me. Go aggressive with under 15% odds and you'll get that result 90% of the time. Steal and destroy but lose money.

You are all assuming that NPO won't want to fight back, that they'll just want to turn up their belly while you stomp their head so they can save you further damage and save themselves enough money to be able to pay you your reps for the honor of having you nuke them 13 times, air attack them 28 times, CM them 28 times, use your navy against them 42 times and ground attack them 28 times.

And that's if you are even telling the truth about keeping a list of nations as they move from peace mode and giving them only 14 days of war and not starting the clock once 90% are out of PM and giving them an additional 14 days beating once that number is reached.

I know if I get in this scenairo I'm spending every dollar possible to take out as big a piece of my attackers as I possibly can.

That means 3-4 million a day to rebuy Air Force, 5-10 million to rebuy navy, 1-2 million per day to rebuy nukes immediately.

If I have no infra and no money left at the end of 14 days and can't pay your reps, oh well. That's too bad.

[Roadie]

If anyone isn't sure what it costs to fight on the 1 side of a week of 3v or 4v1's, you could ask the people who have done it for the last 6 weeks. Just a suggestion. Do with it what you will.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Roadie