Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

[Heft]

1) All nations in peace mode currently will face 14 days of war, no more, no less. When 90% of your peace mode nations comply, then peace will be declared.

For clarification purposes does that mean that 90% of peace mode nations must receive 14 days of war, or that 90% of peace mode nations must be in war mode before the 14 days counter starts?

[Aurion]

Oh god. You know nothing. Please stop talking.

Actually, he appears to know a great deal more than you do.

Or, if you prefer, NO U.

[Israfeel]

Wow, crazy terms.

So options are, face war or disappear.

These terms were written to be rejected.

[Mixoux]

Wow, crazy terms.

So options are, face war or disappear.

These terms were written to be rejected.

Heh.

If they were written to be rejected, don't you think they'd have been much more outrageous?

[Rebel Virginia]

Wow, crazy terms.

So options are, face war or disappear.

These terms were written to be rejected.

Yes, exactly. Sort of like Electron Sponge's terms to \m/, which I do believe you Superfriends and Citadel folks long demonized him for. Well, look at you know. You're just like Sponge. You have become the very monster you fought so hard to destroy. Bravo. Bravo.

[muffasamini]

For clarification purposes does that mean that 90% of peace mode nations must receive 14 days of war, or that 90% of peace mode nations must be in war mode before the 14 days counter starts?

Thats the question of the month isn't it. I think the more important question though is, if they start saying, (as Big Z has stated) that the clock is for individual nations, is "is Karma willing to re-write their terms to that effect?"

[harris2004]

Yea, seriously...after reading them, I taught all the nations of CN should discipline karma.

Wow, crazy terms.

So options are, face war or disappear.

These terms were written to be rejected.

[raincoat]

Oh god. You know nothing. Please stop talking.

The terms leave a very large possibility of either eternal war, or payment impossibility (as a possible side effect of the 90% exacerbates the 100 tech clause). If these loopholes are closed, the reps would still be reproachable, but then you'd be correct. The GATO order was rescinded.

Maybe you missed the part of the rep term that said UP to the amount, but dependent on ability to repay. If its impossible for NPO to pay the reps, then they will be reassessed.

In regards to the GATO order, its a little late for that. NPO would not be able to attack those they threatened to EZI anyway, so that was irrelevent. It was in no way a show of remorse for the action.

[maxnmike]

I'm kind of curious about something. As to the GATO nations that were in peace mode and told to come out. Did they come out and if they did, were they attacked before peace was declared?

[raincoat]

I'm kind of curious about something. As to the GATO nations that were in peace mode and told to come out. Did they come out and if they did, were they attacked before peace was declared?

Yes they came out and yes they were pounded when they came out.

[maxnmike]

Yes they came out and yes they were pounded when they came out.

I guess they kind of lose that leg to stand on then now don't they? lol

[muffasamini]

Maybe you missed the part of the rep term that said UP to the amount, but dependent on ability to repay. If its impossible for NPO to pay the reps, then they will be reassessed.

In regards to the GATO order, its a little late for that. NPO would not be able to attack those they threatened to EZI anyway, so that was irrelevent. It was in no way a show of remorse for the action.

No, I read that, and by !@#$%^&* detector screamed. I simply dont believe it. After all the hate spewn on these boards, I see no reason to believe that Karma leaders would just suddenly up and be nice because we were such good dogs.

I'm kind of curious about something. As to the GATO nations that were in peace mode and told to come out. Did they come out and if they did, were they attacked before peace was declared?

Yes they did, however the original order to ZI them was realized to be stupid and rescinded. They were attacked, then peace was declared

Edited June 16, 2009 by muffasamini

[Haflinger]

What crimes of GWI are you talking about? My Viceroyship was well before GWI and the only reference to GWI with regards to the NPO was with regards to their quick recovery from light terms.

You must've missed the claims of them attacking LUE for no good reason, e.g. usurping the role of moderation, etc., then.

That made no sense whatsoever, but yes, it has always been the case that surrender terms are dictated by the winners. That's usually been the NPO and its coalitions but in this case it is Karma.

I've taken part in two surrender terms negotiations. Neither of them meet that description.

Then again, if they had, they wouldn't have been negotiations

Have you seen Azaghul's math? You know, the numbers that don't involve a 50% Pacifican desertion rate and getting nuked three times a day by people with 5k tech and WRC's? 6 months. If you really cared that much about the potential for eternal war you could have suggested something limiting it to two cycles for each nation.

The reality is, they'd rather fight a war for six months to a year than pay reps for six months to a year. They've been saying that all through this thread.

1. Karma does not care about your "community", much in the same way NPO did not care about ours. Tough.

Wait, what? When did the NPO issue tyrannical surrender terms to GOD?

What could you possibly still be talking about at this point?

Every horrible thing the NPO has ever done, what else?

I wonder if there's a solid core within NPO that has it in them to pull a FAN.

Looks like.

[Bob Janova]

Then it isn't NPO's fault that alliances disbanded when they were defeated by NPO and company in various wars.

Alliances being given no terms at all is not the same thing as an alliance choosing to waste its money and then whinging about how they don't have enough money to pay their reps. If terms were not offered to NPO, or terms which were impossible, then you might have a point. But Azaghul has clearly laid out a plan by which the reps can be paid with no problem, and if NPO chooses to blow its warchest instead of hoarding it for rebuilding then it is their fault.

[Nintenderek]

(P.S. NPO does not practice "EZI")

You can keep saying that, it doesn't make it true. It's practiced ZI for years, and just recently stopped a couple of weeks before this war began to try and stop it. Do you need a list or something of everyone who's ever been on NPO's EZI list? Because I'm sure I can make one if it's that important to you.

[enderland]

No, I read that, and by !@#$%^&* detector screamed. I simply dont believe it. After all the hate spewn on these boards, I see no reason to believe that Karma leaders would just suddenly up and be nice because we were such good dogs.

Actually, the original order was that GATO peace nations should come out, then face war equal to the amount of peace they held. It readily became apparent why this was a stupid idea, would logistically just end up as ZI's with no gains for anyone, yadda yadda, trying to tell people to come out of peace for war has a tendency to make people not do what you want them to. Perhaps you should learn from our mistake? (P.S. NPO does not practice "EZI")

So basically two points here.

1) Karma is far more nice than you were to GATO

2) Because you don't want to believe that Karma's terms are as they say, they aren't?

[raincoat]

No, I read that, and by !@#$%^&* detector screamed. I simply dont believe it. After all the hate spewn on these boards, I see no reason to believe that Karma leaders would just suddenly up and be nice because we were such good dogs.

Actually, the original order was that GATO peace nations should come out, then face war equal to the amount of peace they held. It readily became apparent why this was a stupid idea, would logistically just end up as ZI's with no gains for anyone, yadda yadda, trying to tell people to come out of peace for war has a tendency to make people not do what you want them to. Perhaps you should learn from our mistake? (P.S. NPO does not practice "EZI")

Tell that to GATO when they got declared on for aiding a Chris Kaos reroll.

[Bob]

For clarification purposes does that mean that 90% of peace mode nations must receive 14 days of war, or that 90% of peace mode nations must be in war mode before the 14 days counter starts?

Its been stated that the first is correct. Only 14 days of war count, as Big_Z mentioned earlier. They will each receive 14 days of war.

[Bob]

Actually, the original order was that GATO peace nations should come out, then face war equal to the amount of peace they held. It readily became apparent why this was a stupid idea, would logistically just end up as ZI's with no gains for anyone, yadda yadda, trying to tell people to come out of peace for war has a tendency to make people not do what you want them to. Perhaps you should learn from our mistake? (P.S. NPO does not practice "EZI")

Do you know who Chimaera is?

It only takes one example for you to be wrong.

[SonOfHoward]

I call it Rebel Virginia's Law.

Rebel Virginia's Law=Lets see if we can make this thread reach 300 pages.

Edit: messed up the quotes

Edited June 16, 2009 by SonOfHoward

[ShinRa]

Tell that to GATO when they got declared on for aiding a Chris Kaos reroll.

This is somewhat off topic, but has anyone actually seen any proof that this guy was a Chris Kaos reroll. I've never seen or heard anything appart from that NPO somehow found out.

[TypoNinja]

Oh god. You know nothing. Please stop talking.

The terms leave a very large possibility of either eternal war, or payment impossibility (as a possible side effect of the 90% exacerbates the 100 tech clause). If these loopholes are closed, the reps would still be reproachable, but then you'd be correct. The GATO order was rescinded.

Sigh, I know the OP is really far back there at this point, but reading it does help you in preventing yourself from looking like a complete fool.

B2) Reparations of up to 300,000 tech and $7,000,000,000 will be assessed upon the New Pacific Order. This shall be determined dependent on their ability to pay after the aforementioned period of war, in the judgment of the Karma signatories of this document. All reparations of technology must be paid by nations with greater than or equal to 1000.00 technology at the end of the above-mentioned 14 day period.

Edit: in hindsight, I have little faith in your comprehension skills so I shall spell it out. Pay close attention to the boded parts and think very hard on how that prevents eternal war.

Edited June 16, 2009 by TypoNinja

[raincoat]

This is somewhat off topic, but has anyone actually seen any proof that this guy was a Chris Kaos reroll. I've never seen or heard anything appart from that NPO somehow found out.

Probably spying, yet another thing thats only wrong unless NPO is doing it.

[Haflinger]

You can keep saying that, it doesn't make it true. It's practiced ZI for years, and just recently stopped a couple of weeks before this war began to try and stop it. Do you need a list or something of everyone who's ever been on NPO's EZI list? Because I'm sure I can make one if it's that important to you.

Guys, this really needs to stop.

NPO defines permazi differently. They think it means being on a ZI list FOREVER.

Not until an alliance leader decides to let you off. Forever.

So can we please stop arguing over the whole ZI/PZI/EZI thing? Moo emptied the NPO's ZI list, so however you define ZI, permazi, whatever, is moot, as NPO isn't doing it to anyone.

[Haflinger]

This is somewhat off topic, but has anyone actually seen any proof that this guy was a Chris Kaos reroll. I've never seen or heard anything appart from that NPO somehow found out.

Yes, there was proof; the Orders (I forget which one found out first) found out IIRC when someone in GATO was told and immediately left GATO and reported that CK was back.