Israfeel

I resign from the New Polar Order and surrender to iFOK and allies

Meh, people mad cuz they didn't expect Pacifica's star to be shining so brightly so soon.

NSO had defensive treaties with NpO Hydra GATO Carpe Diem Brengstklau IRON I think.

IQ quotient huh? Intelligence quotient quotient.

So does the alliance that played it like pirates deserve a cassius belli?

I gotta ask, what was the cassius belli for attacking FOA or whoever they attacked?

I guess I haven't been keeping up since this surprised me.

This crap happens yearly, almost on the dot.

There must be something behind sustaining such numbers, even through war?

A great point. It really hasn't been too long since we heard "do something about it". I didn't think it would come this soon.

So wait, this was a NAP they felt they could cancel and declare on the said alliance immediately? This serves as a lesson for treaty wording but this was a NAP, what the hell is the point of it if you can immediately cancel and declare.

Read this. Keep fighting the good fight, its a tech raid now.

You are the only one who considers him a part of Karma. He makes valid points, points that you seem unable to respond to, so instead you attack motive and do some other crap.

Echelon came in when alliances that were not allied to the originally attacked, thus having no connection, decided to attack the NPO. That activates a defensive agreement.

Echelon simply honored a treaty obligation. It is a truth that can be spinned by anyone.

You lose tech alot slower than infra, those nations with over a 1k tech arn't exactly those who stayed in peace mode. Asking the tech to be payed by high tech nations insures that the tech is valued more to those giving it. It is meant to cripple an alliance, take up slots to do tech deals to those 1k nations and then again to that said alliance.

Kinda like how the NPO laughed when whoever they were dealing with cried no fair.

Great argument, except Echelon was not a "mastermind" of anything. Karma has brought no change, opportunism has always existed. Like I said earlier, lower profile and earlier to surrender alliances were the first to be let off. Eternal war can only be threatened when you don't have to deal with 4k nations. Don't fool yourself into thinking so many were let off because of the kindness of Karma. Your right, NPO is being asked to allow itself to be completely destroyed and then become a tech farm.

It shouldn't matter why I make the points I do, the argument is what you are after in a debate. GGA and Valhalla were lower profile compared to the NPO, yes. And Karma is unorganized... Good excuse. (I am not arguing that fact, only pointing out it does not justify doing EXACTLY what you fought against, and exactly down to the letter and perhaps going even further)

I guarantee these terms are worse. Hmm, I see your point though. So Karma is the new Heg. Kinda like, You have toppled the tyrant only to sit in his throne. I guess we will have to wait for our next savior.

I must have struck a cord. The ridiculous claims have begun. No, I don't care what Heg has done in the past but one of the tenants of logic is that two wrongs do not make a right. And its quite obvious what happened, to be able to sustain an eternal war, to have the threat of eternal war, they needed to reduce the number of nations they would be holding out against. The lower profile alliances and those that attempted to surrender earlier got it easier. The point here is clear. Echelon an alliance that had done nothing except defend an ally as the treaty asked, was forced by circumstances to remain this long in the war, was given some of the harshest terms ever witnessed. Reduced to a tech farm and humiliated by terms that demand they remain cute, the fate of this alliance demonstrates it is irrelevent what the NPO has done in the past. Karma is out to flex its muscles, it will plunder and pillage regardless.

My apologies, I was referring to the Echelon terms. Go take a look at those. (And thats for an alliance there shouldn't be much beef with) Really goes to prove it doesn't matter what the NPO did. Karma is just out flex its muscles.

I guess you don't want to defend what Karma did to Echelon. This is what it comes down to though. "I don't care" Once you are on top, it is really easy to do. It's fine really, this war against the top dogs started over resentment of how they conducted themselves or "moral indignation".

Why can't they fight against it and not impose ridiculous terms?! Humiliating and forcing an alliance to become a tech farm for honorably defending an ally, for fulfilling a treaty obligation is monstrous by any standards. So many alliances profiting from the corruption of Karma is quite frankly disgusting. As grub said, Karma has its hands on some power and it is using it to push this community back to the stone age.

"They're only doing some of the things they preached against..."